Characters
(Trope Inversion) The magical deal maker is… weirdly fair?
Most of the time there’s a magical deal maker in fiction they make it so it fucks the person up in some way or form, either slightly like asking for money but it’s in a different currency, or massively like the classic bringing someone back from the dead.
Through there are times where the one doing the deal is surprisingly fair and honest about it, possibly even including how to sidestep the negative aspects of the deal.
Death/Dream of the Endless (Sandman): In Sandman the main character is the personification of dreams, Dream, while he finds himself after being imprisoned for decades. One of the stories we see is a flashback in the late 1300s, where Dream and his sister Death are in a random English pub because Death wants Dream to take a break from work. While there they overhear a guy called Hob Gattling who says that death happens because people just follow everyone else and how he’ll live forever, hearing this Dream and Death decide to make it true by giving him immortality for a bit of a laugh. After a hundred years Dream and Hob meet again where he explains that as long as he wants to live Hob will be immortal, but if he wants Death can take him at, so unlike most immortality if he was trapped in an inescapable space Death will come for him.
Patrick (Supernatural) Patrick is a near millennia old witch who plays games and bets on people’s lifespans to stay young, with him using winning as shown in the opening of the episode where a guy died of rapid aging. But he’s surprisingly honest about it, he explains the rules to anyone that wants to play and if they win they do de-age, we saw this when an 80 something won and he was about 20 again, he’ll even let you win if he thinks the reason you want more time is nice, such as an old Jewish man wanting to see his granddaughters wedding. He also doesn’t cheat at the game it’s just that he’s been playing games for so long he’s just really good at it.
Death from Bill & Ted’s Bogus Journey let them return to land of the living if they could beat him any game they were allowed to choose. Which included Battleship, Twister, etc
Death didn’t cheat but he kept asking for best of 3 best of 5 etc which Bill & Ted obliged
Sure he was a bit whiny sore loser I suppose but he was absolutely fair since he kept his promise after losing repeatedly
She's extremely open about the consequences of her deals when making them, without monkey's paws or tricks.
She also goes out of her way to not harm innocent people, or people not concerned by the deal, like bodyguards for instance.
Also, while most people die horribly by her hands, it's usually because they are terrible people (though you could argue they became terrible people because of the wealth and fame you got from her deal). If you have to die by her hands because of the deal but you are a good person and are not the one who signed it, she will give you a painless death and comfort you in your last moments.
Also, while most people die horribly by her hands, it's usually because they are terrible people (though you could argue they became terrible people because of the wealth and fame you got from her deal). If you have to die by her hands because of the deal but you are a good person and are not the one who signed it, she will give you a painless death and comfort you in your last moments.
This is expressly a major part of each episode's plot, BTW - Verna gives everyone a choice to not make the selfish, self-destructive path of being a horrible person when she appears. If you heed her warnings, your death will be a lot more pleasant.
There are only two exceptions because the person made their choice without Verna even being involved. Lenore when she called the police and told them what her father had done to his wife, ruining her family's reputation to save her mother and said father Frederick made the choice to torture his wife so Verna bewitched him without him even knowing she was there.
I can’t remember - when the sprinkler system at the party went off and sprayed everyone with some toxic substance, did all the affected people deserve to die?
It's implied that most guests are criminals, corrupt politicians or people with a shady past. The son says explicitly that the true business model is not the party itself but the influence he gains from blackmailing these powerful people with tapes of them in compromising situations in an underground nightclub with a drug orgy. So most victims are most likely deserving.
Verna does order all bouncers and barmen to go out and gives Lenore's mother the opportunity to get out, which she doesn't take but does survive.
She also despite they’re horribleness gives each of them (with one exception and that’s probably because he already crossed it) the chance to turn back to not cross the point of no return they still would have died but quite a few of them would have been less horrible than what they got
It's been a while since I read the story, or listened to The Alan Parsons Project songs, but none of this sounds familiar from what I recall of the E. A. Poe story. Am I wicked far off or what?
This is a show on Netflix, sort of an anthology series telling different Poe tales like "The Tell-Tale Heart," "The Black Cat," "The Cask of Amontillado," "The Pit and the Pendulum," but tying them all together through the framing device of the supernatural story of the rise and fall of the wealthy and corrupt Usher family, hence why the show entire is called, "The Fall of the House of Usher" (and there is also an episode more directly based on the Poe story of the same name).
Im not entirely sure if this fits since its been sometime since i played but The Outsider from Dishonored makes the same simple deal, if he finds you interesting or entertaining, he offers you his mark, which grants you a personalized suite of magical powers that are unlocked through Whalebone carvings, and in return as you go through your interesting journey, he gets to stop in to banter, go over whats happened so far, and watch things unfold(often stopping time to do so), and he may even occassionally drop a sly hint or so if your journey starts to stall out just to keep the ball rolling, and once its over he doesnt betray you, take your soul or even remove his mark, he just.. lets you be, until things get interesting again.
I think it counts. He doesn't have any ulterior motive, or tricky plot. While he speaks very cryptically, and has a menacing aura and disposition, he is generally truthful and sits back to watch the show.
The Truth in Fullmetal Alchemist is all about balance.
even in the choice of what it takes from the people seeing behind the door : all weirdly poetic
Izumi wanted to revive her child, it took her ability to procreate
Ed and Alphonse tried to bring back their mom it took the equivalent mass of her but also gave ed the knowledge he needed to put Al in an armor therefore making al a sentient bei'g deprived of touch warmth or need to be fed.
and Mustang was coerced into performing a human transmutation and the Truth only took a part of his eyes.
You forgot to mention trying to revive their mom took one of Ed's arms and legs and also neglected to mention it took Alphonse's entire body which is why his soul had to be bound to the armor in the first place. They also did not get their mom back and Izumi didn't get her child back. The Truth also took some of her digestive tract and her reproductive system entirely, not just being infertile.
It's funny, because they start the truth, but also get it wrong. The Truth (proper noun) does in fact trade fairly; but when you do human transmutation, you're accidentally knocking on Truth's door and demanding knowledge of how to do it. The Truth attempts to give you knowledge, and in exchange it has to take stuff from you. When they tried to bring their mother back to life, The Truth took Al's entire body and Ed's leg. When Ed demanded Al be brought back, it took Ed's arm to give him the knowledge specifically to bring Al back.
The entire point of laid bare at the end of the show being that Alchemy always sticks with equivalent trades; but there is no equal value to a human life. Nothing you can offer will ever be equal.
You forgot to mention trying to revive their mom took one of Ed's arms and legs and also neglected to mention it took Alphonse's entire body which is why his soul had to be bound to the armor in the first place.
He mentioned it, just not literally. "The equivalent mass of the mother" = the mass of Al's entire body + the mass of Ed's arm and leg.
Also I forget which, but its not both of Ed's limbs, wasnt one of them sacrificed to bond Alphonse to the armor? And technically the cost was how much of the truth they saw. Alphonse saw so much that his whole body was taken.
It took Ed's leg for the mom and then the arm to put Alphonse in the armor. They also had to bury the thing that came back because they did the ritual wrong.
I mean, the show ends with The Truth genuinely congratulating Ed and figuring "it" out. I don't think he was an asshole, he was just "The Truth" and the truth doesn't change, even if you're a child.
I mean i think that The Truth is supposed to be the collective of humanity and like a reflection of whoever is talking to him but he's shown to have his own personality, like sure, he has to enforce the rules, but he clearly takes a sadistic pleasure in it. But i might be getting it wrong
Truth didn't really fuck with them though. He follows, and seemingly embodies, the Law of Equivalent Exchange. He has to take something when human transmutation is performed, its not about messing with people and he's genuinely happy when Ed figures out the ultimate answer in the end.
Right and i can get that, if he has to take something as some part of his function to keep things in order then fine fair play , but he definitely seems to relish inflicting this pain on people, like even if he finds pride in Ed, i still find him abusive in the way he goes about his function even if it's something he must do
He hands over the golden fiddle without argument when Johnny plays better fiddle, despite the display of sportsmanship Johnny still calls him a son of a bitch.
You know he goes to hell at the end anyway? He made a deal with the devil, thats a sin even if he won. Thats why the devil honours the deal so readily, after all what does a devil need with gold
Didn’t the devil in the song make a bet and not a deal? The devil said “I'll bet a fiddle of gold against your soul”.
To me, that’s an either/or scenario. Otherwise, Johnny could just take the gold fiddle without the battle and the devil would gladly give it in exchange for the soul.
Editing to add that I guess technically, a bet is a type of deal. But is that a distinction without a difference? The deal itself wasn’t for an exchange. He bet the fiddle against the soul, not for it.
You know he goes to hell at the end anyway? He made a deal with the devil, thats a sin even if he won. Thats why the devil honours the deal so readily, after all what does a devil need with gold
No, no he doesn't. This song works more on fairytale logic than catholic canon. so making a deal with the devil is not a sin
Then why the fiddle contest? Why would the Devil, who fell from heaven over his pride, acknowledge losing the competition? The only reading that makes any sense is Johnny’s fate being unaffected because he won and him winning so hard that even the Devil couldn’t deny it.
Under that reading (and I don't necessarily think this was the intent of the song) the contest was a ruse to get Johnny to buy into the wager. It worked because he's just as prideful. The devil's pride wouldn't stop him from playing along and feigning defeat if he knew he actually got the soul. It might prevent him from admitting a legitimate loss though.
There is a part two where the Devil tries to take Johnny on account of pride. Johnny plays a second game with the devil and proves he didn't fall to pride, instead Johnny still loved the fiddle and kept practicing, becoming better than he was before.
Even if Johnny goes to hell either way, why is the Devil, again the guy that gave up heaven for hell because of his pride, admiting losing to a mortal? The only answer I can come up with is the Devil sincerely believed Johnny played the fiddle better.
According to Charlie Daniels, this isn't "canon" accurate. Johnny won so he gets his fiddle AND keeps his soul. If he'd lost, he'd get no fiddle and lose his soul, but he was too good to lose.
It is however a popular enough interpretation (and one I personally like) that Charlie Daniels felt the need to clarify.
Related, but he also didn't like that the song was used in a video game (Guitar Hero? Rockband? I don't remember which but it was a rhythm game) because you could lose to the devil and Johnny was not supposed to lose because he's 'the best that's ever been". I never played the game so I don't know if he pulled the rights to it or if its in the game and he just didn't like it.
As a former violinist, just typing those words made my fingers tingle to start up that riff, lol. I wasn't very good, but damn I loved how it felt to play.
Honestly, the Devil keeping his word and handing over the fiddle is what makes that ending so funny. Johnny wins fair and square, but still can’t resist rubbing it in.
Unrelated but this game stays in my mind because of one funny fun fact:
In the first version of the game, the dealer was actually unable to count and would always just internally flip a coin to decide whether to shoot you or himself, unless there was one shell in the chamber in which case he would 100% choose the right option.
So if there were 3 live shells and 0 blanks left and it was the dealer’s turn, there’d still be a 50% chance of him turning the gun on himself.
Helraiser (2022) the cenobites "obliges" the wish of their customers who solve all 7 configurations of the box. Even hears the complaints of a previous customer and corrects his wish.
My friend described this movie to me as "Cenobite customer service rep keeps getting called by people who are unhappy they are being tortured, after playing with the Riddle Box That Tortures You"
the cenobites are possibly the only "trickster genie" that i actually believe isnt trying to trick anyone--they genuinely just think completely differently than us and 100% think theyre delivering on their promise. like yeah you chose "pleasure" as your wish and the fucking pain worshippers gave you the worst pain ever. What exactly did you THINK they were going to give you?
The Cenobites in the original novella were also this, unlike the first movie, when Kirsty fulfils her bargain to lead Frank to them, they OFFER to take her with them, she refuses and the Cenobites shrug and go "You know how to contact us" and leave.
That's why I liked the point made in the second film by Pinhead when Tiffany solves the puzzle box.
"It is not hands that summon us. It is desire."
Plus the comics do a great job a lot of the time showing that though agents of Leviathan, they can be very fair, and even just if someone is truly innocent.
In the comics, IIRC, isn't there also a Cenobite clown who's job is to entertain children who accidentally used the Lament Configuration?
Also, in Novella, great pains are taken to show that they DO understand what they offer isn't for everyone, and they appear first and stress that what they do might not be what the summoner wants, explicitly needing, at least initially, consent to take the summoner.
The Clown (Winky Dink?) was to entertain the kids, but to entertain them into wanting to be there as the children could not leave as I recall.
Honestly the concept has been expanded on so much there are many iterations, it does mostly come down to the the whims of the Cenobite and to Leviathan itself. They are not hard and fast rules.
However there is no fun in pain without pleasure, what they do is for those who want it or have invoked it is how I see it.
As mentioned with the first film (not book version) and how they tried to take Kirsty. I think her desire to know what was going on, and how it happened was enough for them to want her.
The comic had loads and honestly most were really clever of unique, in design and intention. Plus showing how people can condemn themselves over time.
The Hellraiser property is pretty inconsistent, but there's a lot of very intriguing high level worldbuilding going on.
The mode of existence the Cenobites enjoy is ultimately the result of their god being repulsed and disgusted by the majority of physical existence, but recognizing or even admiring the capacity of the human mind for several traits that Leviathan values.
They’re like that in the new game too, Hellraiser Revival. They arrive when the box is solved, announce themselves, then ask if Sunny wants to accept their deal, and they only take her when she agrees. Same thing with Aiden, he ends up making his own deal and the cenobites follow it perfectly, even if Aiden ends up misinterpreting his side a bit. The game ends with a choice - Aiden can join them and become a cenobite too, or he can decline and keep living as a human. They’re even quite open about who they are and what their vision and mortivations are, and repeatedly warn Aiden that Sunny may not fully reciprocate his obsession. Overall the cenobites seem way more reasonable and logical than most of the humans. They’re just eldritch pain demons.
Yeah, I like it when they really lean into the "Blue and Orange Morality" of things like the Cenobites, it's not that they are actually evil, their way of thinking is simply not human, or at least in the extremes so much it seems inhuman.
Also don't allow misuse of others - if you get someone else to solve a configuration for you, that's still on you rather than them. "It isn't the hands that summon us, but the heart," kind of thing.
The Holländer Michl from the fairy tail the cold heart. He basically offers people to replace their hearts with stones and promises them riches in return. He may be malicious but is completely up front that people who takes his deal will become heartless and unable to feel emotions and when the protagonist accuses him of having tricked him of scamming him since he still felt regret after accidently killing his wife he puts his heart back into his chest to prove that he really removed it.
Olgierd is based on a mix of a few Polish characters from books, mostly Kmicic (looks), Wołodyjowski (skill with saber) and Twardowski (deal with the devil).
The overarching "heart of stone" theme of someone loosing or hiding their heart or giving it up is common across Slavic and Nordic myths, Hollander is yet another version of it from 18th century.
The former themes are generally more prominent in Polish culture so I'd guess those were main ones
Gaunter is definitely based of the cold heart since he is also called the man of class and the Glasmännlein (German for little glass man) is another character from the cold heart who also a wish granting entity
Twardowski is a Polish noble that makes a deal with the Devil in exchange for various magical powers and the deal is based on the fact that the Devil can take his soul when Twardowski is in Rome
Twardowski never intends to go to Rome but is manoeuvred into visiting tavern called The Rome. Twardowski uses a trick and runs to the Moon where he stays to avoid the Devil.
Olgierd makes a deal that the Devil can take his soul on the Moon, since he never intends to go there.
The Cenobites from Hellraiser. They tend to make sure if those who solve the box knew what they were doing beforehand. If the box solver did know and want the outcome, the Cenobites go through with the torture/pleasure. If the box solver didn't know, the Cenobites leaves them but gives a warning/invitation if they ever to do it willingly. If the box solver was forced into the situation by someone else, the Cenobites leave the box solver alone and punish the person who forced them into it(and not the punish as pleasure kind).
To be Fair... This Is how i would like them to be, but the novel and the movie could not decide. With Novel Frank, they warn him about the risks, but with Novel Christie they are Just about to take her until She offers Them to bring Frank. With Movie Frank, they take him, with Christie they are about to abduct her without question and they take their time but even make a deal they half respect (they said "maybe we won't tear your soul apart" and Christie herself revoked the deal After a mistake), then in the second movie they Just know that puzzle girl had no interest and they left her alone, while the one Who tricked was even rewarded by Leviathan. Was Christie secretly kinky and they thought She wanted It?
I know you probably wanna play it straight, but the idea that they were a cleric of a God who never acknowledge them, and then a patron pretended to be that God and the person still genuinely thinks that they’re a cleric. Come on it’s pretty good.
Crowley, also from supernatural. A boon for your soul after 10 years. That is the rule of selling your soul to demons.
When a pair of demons go rogue (one makes the deals, the other kills the mortal to collect their souls before time) he reverts the actions of said demons and exemplarily punishes them.
"There's a reason we don't call our chits in early: consumer confidence. This isn't Wall Street, this is Hell! We have a little something called integrity. This gets out, who'll deal with us? Nobody! Then where are we?"
Mark Sheppard plays a good few roles that follow the same rough blueprint. if you compare Crowley to something like Badger from Firefly, the real difference is the degree of success Crowley has, where Badger is now and always will be small time.
the deal is incredibly simple--you summon one at a crossroads, you make a wish. it grants you your wish with no strings attached, and 10 years later they kill you and collect your soul, taking you to hell. Theres no bullshit, no hidden clauses. You want to be rich and famous? beautiful? talented? congrats! enjoy it for 10 years, then you're hunted down by hellhounds.
notably, theres nothing forcing them to honor their deals, and one episode centers on a demon killing his clients soon after the deal in order to collect them early. The Winchester bros dont even get to catch that demon. why? the fucking King of Hell pulls up and personally obliterates the cheat because sure, theres nothing forcing demons to keep their word, but almost every demon understands that if they start cheating people, humans will stop selling their souls. its common sense. the myth of selling your soul and demons being bound to the contract is the only fucking reason humans will ever trust a literal demon, and by breaking the contract, the cheater was fucking up the program for every single demon.
This EXACT mechanism is in play in The Collector, a criminally short-lived show.
Same basic premise: people make a deal with the Devil, and get their wish for ten years, after which they're pulled to hell. But shortly before their time is up, a Collector is sent to remind them of this so they spend their final few days (hours, maybe, it's been a hot minute) squirming. The titular Collector, however, was a former priest (long story) and successfully argued that he should be allowed to use that time to try and redeem those he had been sent to collect.
While it's more for a laugh than anything else, the Devil goes along with it. And the scant few that succeed truly do get off scot-free, no strings attached.
Shenron (and other wish dragons) from the DragonBall franchise. He'll usually give you exactly what you want. No tricks, no ironic twist. So long as its within his power he'll do, and if its not he may work with you a bit to get something close.
Now he does show favoritism. When he gets the ability to grant multiple wishes he ends up reserving it for people who have summoned him before, a "repeat customer" special if you will. He also may throw in a bit extra if he likes you.
There are some wishes he is unable to do and will let you know.
However another dragon from the series, Toronbo, when given a wish that is beyond his power will make a deal to shorten your remaining life span to make that wish happen.
While Toronbo did come to mind after I posted, I was thinking of the Frieza arc. When asked to revive everyone Frieza has killed he says he can but limits it to within the past year because everyone Frieza has killed, directly or indirectly, is a lot of people
Namek arc mainly mainly makes me think of Porunga. He revived Piccolo and brought him to Namek but not to specifically where Gohan and Krillin were, just on Namek somewhere.
Not sure this counts with the spirit of the triope but the Genie from Disney's Aladdin.
In the film, the genie is portrayed as a funny, lovable, fun loving guy stuck inside the lamp. He grants Aladdin's wishes with no twist or trick.
In mythology, genies often trick the wisher with hidden caveats or unforseen circumstances.
I'm not sure if the genie is simply just a nice guy and so doesn't trick anyone, or if whoever imprisoned him into the lamp sealed away his ability to disobey.
They get stuck in a bottle by more powerful djinn (or king Solomon) for being a criminal in the djinn world. This is why the vast majority of them manipulate wishes they are angry at their imprisonment.
But also, the whole idea of such an imprisonment, and the wish granting is to put some humility into the djinn by making them serve humans until one decides to free them,
which is only going to happen when they are nice to humans.
It’s honestly an ingenious punishment because the punishment lasts until the lesson is learned.
Genie in Aladdin starts off by stating he’s been in his lamp with no humans letting him out for a stretch and wish granting for 10,000 years. And you have to ask yourself why was his lamp hidden in the cave of wonders which is so well designed to make sure that only an honorable person can retrieve the lamp.
To be fair…Aladdin wishes to be a prince and then later in the movie, everyone acts like all Genie did was give him nice clothes and parade.
As in, he still can’t marry Jasmine without lying, as if he’s not actually a prince.
But Aladdin didn’t ask to LOOK like a prince. He wished to BE a prince. So why is Aladdin still not worthy? He should be a true prince with a kingdom and the actual title and all that. He could just marry Jasmine and it’d be totally legit.
Unless the Genie did nothing but help him lie, and he’s not actually a prince at all.
This was always my issue too. Aladdin didn't wish for a parade and fancy clothes, he wished to be a prince. It should've been impossible for 'the lie' to come out because it never should've been a lie. He should've been found to be some long lost prince or a new country created from nothing just to make him the prince of it.
You know, I never thought about that but that makes sense. Now did Genie make his father retroactively the king of thieves to grant the wish, or was it more "You wish to be a prince? Technically you are one, so let's just snazz you up and have a parade."
To be fair, Aladdin never specified a timeline. He does become a Prince and he defininitely would not have without the aid and advice of the genie. Ergo, the Genie made him a Prince.
I'd argue Genie granted the wish entirely in line with Aladdin's own desires.
He didn't want power or riches, he wanted the appearance of them so he could marry Jasmine.
Marrying Jasmine was his ultimate goal, so Genie helped him with that and that alone.
They literally had to abolish the law mandating that Jasmine can only marry a prince just so Aladdin can marry her. He only became a prince via marriage, as in, if you marry a princess then I guess you’re a prince now.
But changing the law wasn’t required if he was already a prince to begin with, which the wish SHOULD have done.
In the actual myths djinn basically just do what you ask them to as long as they're actually able when you got them stuck in some magical object. In the original aladin story the genie of the ring and the genie of the lamp both were pretty easy to deal with.
There are other stories where the djinn are trying to pull some bullshit, but everyone involved already knows the djinn is on some bullshit so they basically just use whatever wish they got to pull a fast one. In The Fisherman and the Jinni the jinn wasn't going to give the dude a wish at all until it got tricked into getting itself trapped inside its jar again and threatened with being dropped in the sea.
I've also read before that marids are a very powerful kind of jinn, but they're also pretty stupid. They don't tend to like people much so they'll grant you the opposite of whatever you wish for, but because they're kind of dim light bulbs you can just wish for the opposite of what you actually want and they'll still do it.
What did Genie tell him all movie? Tell the truth. What happened when he finally did so and Jasmine married him? He became a legitimate real prince - not of the fictional Ababwa - but of Agrabah.
Genie changing his clothes, giving him the title, wasn't to make him a prince. It was to get him closer to Jasmine, who makes him a prince. It's a long plan, it's not granted as soon as Genie snaps his fingers.
Al is a good guy so he did his best for him, even taking liberties where he could.
Genie easily could have made Al the prince of country, but the way he did it worked out better for everyone.
As for why Genie was able to ignore making him into a bonafide prince, Al's father is the King of Thieves, thus making him the prince of thieves. Genie either made him into the king of thieves or he already was, either way he exploited a loophole
Having just written this, I realise it doesn't necessarily count as the Genie doesn't have to make a deal with you. He does make a deal with Aladdin to use his last wish on freeing the genie though.
Jafar is an excellent classic example of a djinn that just got put in a lamp. Angry with his imprisonment and lashing out by manipulating wishes. You also see why Genies lamp was so well hidden because Jafar manipulates his wish caster into freeing him.
Also classically they get put in a lamp for being a criminal and the wish granting is designed to make them learn some humility by serving lesser creatures
Well, no. In mythology, the genie usually just does what you ask, and there aren't any wishes, he's basically a slave or contract employee while you have the lamp, aside from one, specific case in arabian nights.
The TV show does some flashbacks, and genie has twisted wishes. His last master wished for immortality, but not youth. So, he kept aging, and wanted Genie to grant him a new wish.
In some versions he didn't have the wherewithal for that: he was so pissed she guessed right that he stomped his feet into the ground hard enough to open up a crevice that swallowed him.
It has been a LONG time but I recall reading a book series where Rumplestiltskin has a home and a lot of kids around, happy. And his motivation is actually that any parent who would trade their children for wishes is already going to be a terrible parent, so he's doing it to help the kids.
Oma the genie from the NSFW game ,Corruption of Champions 2, is rather jaded after being promised freedom by her masters, yet they always used their last wish on themselves. So when you become her new master, she defaults into being the typical wish twisting genie unless the player character is clever enough to wish for her freedom after the next two wishes, then she works with you to make sure the wishes don’t backfire on you.
First go to the undermountain with Lyric in your bag, when you encounter kobolds, say yes to meeting their queen, when talking to their queen ask about their treasure, there should be a mention about a lamp (it’s been a while since I’ve played), set up camp and use the lamp with enough naphtha in your inventory.
You don't even have to be clever(as in, have a high enough Cunning stat), if you used your very first wish for her freedom, you basically just skip the stat check and she gladly helps you workshop your next two.
Wishes are tricky things with lots of unforeseen consequences. The Lich makes a very straightforward wish to kill everything. Finn and Jake show up just barely too late to stop him, but get the chance to make their own wishes to fix the situation.
Finn is incredibly impulsive and blurts out his wish before giving it any thought, and completely borks everything. He wishes that the Lich never existed at all, which completely alters the course of history for the last millenium.
Jake gets a wish to try to fix everything, but he's very absentminded. He wishes for a sandwich, which Prismo simply gives him without causing it to use up his wish. Ultimately, Prismo straight up spells out what Jake needs to wish for to fix everything: Change the Lich's wish to be that Finn and Jake can go home to Ooo.
Prismo even warns them that his wishes have a bit of a monkey's paw to them unless they are incredibly careful with how it's worded. He gives the example "say you wish for a back massage. Who gives you the back massage? Do i just whisk some random guy away from his dinner table? Now his son is asking 'mommy, where did daddy go?' All so you can get a back massage?"
Also love the ungoing joke that anytime Jake gets a wish he wastes it on a sandwich, happens at least 3 times in the series
It’s a great ongoing joke. But every time it’s brought up I remember the labyrinth with those stupid ass hotdog bastards. I’m just happy they got what was coming to them
Also, I believe Prismo just kind of vibes with Jake and thinks he's cool and a good guy. So he doesn't want him to fuck up his wish. It pays to be friendly.
To be fair, neither Past Prismo or Finn knew what would happen if Present Finn stopped his past self from waking Jake. I mean Past Prismo did say he MIGHT explode after all. And plus, it wasn't ACTUALLY Prismo that did that, it was technically Finn himself.
Known as the "Witch of dimensions", she's powerful enough to grant nearly any wish and will grant any wish if you're willing to pay the price. However she'll usually tell you the price up front, and it's always proportional to the wish (turning down receiving expensive/rare/sentimental items if it would be overpaying)
Not a perfect example, she'll still do it if the wish isn't a good one. She once got a request to "get rid of the ghost in my house" by what she immediately realized was the ghost not the owner, and followed through
Gods fall into this because a god is absolutely bound by their word. If a god makes a deal or a promise, they must uphold it, no matter what. This works both for and against the protagonists.
When Grumble, god of the minions, offers to make Thistle the gnome his paladin, Thistle has one condition before he agrees: Upon his death, he is to be reunited with his late wife Madroria rather than go to the usual paladin afterlife.
In the fourth book, the dark god Kalzidar steals Madroria's soul from her afterlife, and Grumble makes a point to warn Thistle that his promise to him still holds: if Thistle dies before Madroria is rescued Grumble will have to reunite them, even if that means giving Thistle's soul to a god known for his vengefulness that Thistle has greatly pissed off.
On the flip side, in the fifth book Thistle bargains for Madroria's safety be promising not to use any of his paladin abilities the night Kalzidar's plans go into motion in exchange for his promise to not harm her in any way. When Kalzidar is thwarted he assumes Thistle broke his word and prepares to take it out on Madroria... and can't. He can't attack her, even when he angrily lashes out at random nothing he does comes close to her. This is because Thistle did keep his word, and now Kalzidar is unable to harm Madroria, even accidentally, however much he might want to.
In Exalted, the Demon Makarios can be summoned in a dream to bargain for treasures such as gems of crystalline sorrow, nightmare-scented perfumes, or the language of toads.
Despite looking like a baby-eating meth addict and being the physical embodiment of a being older than time from beyond the edges of existence… Makarios always deals fairly. He always keeps his word. He always offers a fair price. No monkey's paw. No corrupt a wish. No hidden costs. He's just a business man.
Same setting, same type of being Sigereth is a small jewellery box (not the bald kid carrying the box, just the box).
Sigereth, better known as The Player of Games, is a box who contains every board and every piece and every die for every game in Creation (whethet that game is from earth or hell). She allows people to use her body to play whatever board games they like, so long as the players wager on the outcome. And she uses her magic to make sure the wagers are paid. She will also allow people to play against her directly, wagering physical property, pledges of action or even friendships, skills, memories and dreams.
Always plays fair. Always pays up. Is even kind enough to warn folks when they are horribly outclassed. Yes, if you wager your soul, she will turn you into a mindless puppet, a slave to her will. But, like, just don't do that?
Eight billion genies is an interesting example of this. The premise is that everyone on the planet gets a genie who grants them one wish. Even though the genies are absolutely acting with malicious intent to the human race as a whole, they're completely fair with the actual wishes. They're granted based on intent, and the genies are pretty upfront when volunteering information about how it works.
People keep phrasing their wishes in specific and detailed ways to avoid tragic irony, but that genuinely isn't necessary, since the genies will always try their best to grant the spirit of the wish.
The IFCC (Inter-Fiend Cooperation Coalition) from The Order of the Stick. Although played with.
They offer a certain character power in exchange of a faustian bargain (their soul). But the IFCC makes it clear that they'll have said soul only for the same amount of time as the power given lasts, they offer an alternative solution to the problem that doesn't involve the deal they are offering (to not make the contract a situation under duress) and are completely transparent with all the details (they even stop time so they can calmly explain some of the finer print).
They aren't lying, but they are not above letting the person making the deal assume stuff and they do some lying by omission instead of twisting the truth.
Despite popular culture, oftentimes, devils from dnd/pathfinder.
They're LAWFUL evil, their whole point is that they want mortals to willingly damn themselves.
Sure, they're not likely to give you anything extra that wasn't outlined in the deal, but anything that was agreed on will be done so to the letter.
They aren't usually 'twisters' like vengeful djinn.
If you went around screwing everyone who made a contract, reputation would be in tatters, and that's bad for the business of hell, but if they generally know that so long as the price is paid and terms are set, that they will deliver, well, that starts to look a bit more enticing.
And that's where they can even 'sweeten' the deal. 'hey mortal, if you can get 5 more people yourself to sign on, we'll bump you up from 'pathetic afterlife existence wandering forver' to 'pencil pusher'
If you get those too to get 5 each, we'll give you an office.
Yes, I love the idea of faustian contract hierarchy being an MLM
Discworld’s Death plays a form of poker with a witch for an ill child’s life. They show their cards: she has four queens, he has four aces. But he says that all he has are four ones, and lets the child live.
DEATH, most of the time doesn't like his job, he just realizes it is a job that needs done and if not him, someone worse. So DEATH takes as many liberties as he can get away with. DEATH especially enjoyed being the Hogfather and saving a little match girl.
Doesn't he, immediately after "losing", ask granny weatherwax what would have happened had he won and she replied something along the lines of "to start with, I'd have broken your bloody arm"? Even death doesn't want to mess with granny
Your are missing out! I honestly think if anyone who wants a position of power had to read discworld and then take a test to prove they understood it, the world would be a better place
He doesn't twist words, he doesn't take liberties, he does however take things very literally. When Nandor wishes for a bigger dick him and Guillermo sit down and write out the wish in such a way as to avoid any hijinks.
Been a while since I watched the show so I could be wrong. Didn't he pull some kind of trick on Nandor where he found Guillermo attractive?
I think the trick was because nandor had already built wish on top of wish. Like when he got magical surgery on top of another and ended up looking super weird.
Yeah the Djinn is very chill but also very literal. When Nandor says he'll always think of Guillermo when using his new penis the Djinn includes that as part of the wish.
Tom Waits as Mr Nick/The Devil in The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus. He keeps making bets with the titular character over who can win more souls but he’s shown to enjoy the competitions more so than actually winning. When they have a competition for the soul of Parnassus’ daughter and she willingly surrenders to hell, Mr Nick doesn't try to hide his confusion and disappointment ("Damn!??! I've won..."). As a result he immediately starts a new competition with Parnassus to defeat a detestable character they both loathe in exchange for freeing the daughter albeit Mr Nick won’t reveal where she is in the world after she’s freed (as it's now another game for him seeing if Parnassus can find her and win her back)
Despite being the antagonist and willing to stoop to cheating and cheap shots to win, Gruntilda from Banjo-Kazooie is surprisingly fair when Banjo and Kazooie beat her minigames or game shows.
She doesn't even give him the rewards in some prideful sense of "You'll never get enough to beat me anyways!" way, she seems genuinely distraught when he wins but still reluctantly gives him the jiggy because it's only fair.
Tezcatlipoca from Fate/Grand Order is a twist on gods of war.
Unlike those who like to copycat ares, this god of war acts more like an arms dealer. Trading weapons to both sides since war has a tendency to just happen on its own.
He makes sure the trades are fair, whenthe protagonist first meets him in the afterlife, they offers their 3 command spells(Powerful stuff) in order to come back to life. Tez straight up says it would be unfair if he just brought him back to life since what he offered was worth more than that, so he gave hin thus weird skull thing which didn't seem like much but acted as a sort of sign of diplomatic immunity for some groups.
Though if he can't trade for what he wants he'll usually try to take it by force.
funny you mention Fate but doesn't mention the holy grail
The holy grail you see in the original triology (F/SN, Zero etc) is corrupted by all the world's evil and will twist your words.
But if you play out a grail war with a completely non corrupted grail, you get what you want (or at least the means to make what you want come true). No tricks.
In Konosuba, one of the antagonist, Alderp made a pact with Maxwell, the warper of truth, to raise in station (the price to pay once the wish completed is negative emotion. As demon feed from them)
Marxwell is pretty fair. Doing his best to grant Alderp wish
Alderp on the other hand is an asshole, even to Marxwell. The thing is Marxwell have memory issues, he litteraly have an hole in his head. Every time Marxwell granted a wish, Alderp gaslighted him in believing he granted the wrong thing and « actually my wish was… ». Allowing him to use Max again and again and again
Until the contract end eventually, and Maxwell remember the whole work done…and so the bill for it. He then drag Alderp to hell to feed in his negative emotions
They also complained that Alderp life expectancy was too low to fully pay the debt. But when he offered to sacrifice a relative instead, they refused as the one who made the pact is fully responsible of its payment
From Skyrim, we've got the hagravens who made the deal to turn the Companions into werewolves. There's every indication they were up front with the terms and conditions. It wasn't until Kodlak decided that he didn't actually want to pay the price after a lifetime of benifiting from the deal that they was a problem.
i mean, dont they all still very much rely on the fact that a mortal mind is inherently less capable of grasping all the consequences and not rarely on the fact that most mortals dont even really think whatever is offered is real until after the fact?
Norm the genie from FOP is overly sarcastic and a bit of a jerk, but his fairly upfront about his deal and even somewhat tells you what the outcome of your wish will be, sarcastically of course.
Beetlejuice may appear to be extremely sleazy, but he is extremely honest with the deals he makes, even if a request is only mentioned once. He's honest with both marriage deals with Lydia, and doesn't kill the Deetz after the Maitlands ask him not to.
Hades in greek mythology, with the best example being Orpheus. The deal was simple: take your wife’s soul back to the surface and don’t look back. Orpheus had ONE JOB.
Shenlong as well as other dragons from Dragon Ball. Porunga, the dragon of Namek, states he fixed up Krillin's body when he brought him back to life free of charge.
Isn’t there also an SCP that’s basically a demon they will do whenever you want for a price? I only know two of the things it did, one is give a guy a burger on the condition he paid for it, and another where he and a lawyer an a multi hour discussion where he said it was the most fun he ever had.
Also, the conditions follow the letter and the spirit of the deal, there's no way around it, the hamburger example shows this, as the deal was in exchange for the D-Class's beloved stuffed toy called Mopsy, when the staff gave him another stuffed toy, it vanished the SECOND the D-Class named it Mopsy.
Voldemort is hoist by his own petard with this trope as he genuinely offers to spare Lily Potter’s life if she lets him murder her baby. If he had been lying to her, his curse wouldn’t have backfired when he tried to kill Harry.
A telepathic fly that will follow you around giving you therapy while offering to grant your deepest desire. Once you make that wish, the fly will die (and manifest into another fly in another part of the world) and grant your wish with no strings attached. However, 5 years later you will die a very agonizing death as your body becomes host to millions of fly larva/maggots who birth from you and kill you.
No, according to its document, the fly doesn’t specify the price beforehand. I’m also not sure where they got the therapy part, it says they refuse to discuss anything other than the terms of the agreement.
It's not five years, but exactly 2,376 days, which works out to six years, six months, and six days (assuming 30-day months). Pretty obvious 666 reference. The article also traces the entity back at least 4,000 years to Canaanite settlements, which basically means it's supposed to be Beelzebub, the Lord of the Flies.
And it absolutely DOES twist wishes. The Foundation actually tried to outsmart it several times:
Test 3063-1: A researcher wished for SCP-3063's death. The fly promptly combusted, but the entity survived and the researcher still suffered the usual consequences.
Test 3063-3: Another researcher wished for "a permanent cessation of all activities of SCP-3063". The entity apparently interpreted "permanent" as "lasting only until the researcher died", after which it resumed its activities.
So it's pretty much your traditional, malicious, deal-making demon, exploiting loopholes as much as it can and deliberately misinterpreting wishes while killing folks.
Probably the worst thing is that it never actually takes no for an answer. If you refuse, it keeps tempting you with increasingly attractive offers. If you kill the fly, another "manifestation" will come after you. The article explicitly states that flies will continue contacting the target until they agree.
So you're dealing with an entity that offers you your deepest desires, never tells you the actual price, twists your wishes, and will harass you for the rest of your life until you finally give in. I don't see what's particularly fair about that xD
They basically warn the protagonist Wander against making a deal with them, warns him there will be a price in addition to slaying all the Colossi, and even though he takes over Wander's body at the end at an inconvenient moment and seems to suffer destruction because of it, they fulfill their end of the deal: Wander made the deal to revive the dead woman Mono, and Mono is indeed brought back to life without any jackass genie shenanigans.
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u/Domonero 21h ago
Death from Bill & Ted’s Bogus Journey let them return to land of the living if they could beat him any game they were allowed to choose. Which included Battleship, Twister, etc
Death didn’t cheat but he kept asking for best of 3 best of 5 etc which Bill & Ted obliged
Sure he was a bit whiny sore loser I suppose but he was absolutely fair since he kept his promise after losing repeatedly