A little Smith & Wesson Third Gen compact appreciation. My 3913 in 9mm, 4013TSW in .40 S&W, and 4516 in .45 ACP. I’ve always found the bobbed hammers on these pistols interesting. They’re a small design detail, but they give these guns a distinctive look, and there’s something appealing about the combination of traditional double-action mechanics and a hammer that’s been trimmed down to minimize snagging. Three different calibers, three slightly different approaches, and a lot of classic S&W engineering.

One thing I’ve always appreciated about the Third Gen lineup is how much variety S&W managed to offer within the same basic design family. The compact models weren’t simply shortened full-size pistols. They each had their own proportions, handling characteristics, and personalities. These three are great examples of that, and a reminder of just how much thought went into S&W’s metal-framed semiautomatics.

I went to the range with my 411 for the first time, and I noticed it was consistently shooting low. Made it very hard to be accurate with because I was trying to figure out how much I needed to compensate for it. There could be a few reasons, for one thing the previous owner replaced the original sights with Tru-Dot glow sights, and I was using PMC bronze ammunition, but it's very weird that it kept shooting low. Only other gun that I've had this problem with was my Zastava M57.

Here’s another one of my Third Generation Smiths, a Model 3913 chambered in 9mm. Introduced in 1989, the 3913 was S&W’s answer to those who wanted a compact, easily concealed semiautomatic without the bulk of a double-stack magazine. It has a 3½-inch barrel, stainless steel slide, aluminum alloy frame, and an eight-round single-stack magazine. The traditional DA/SA action, slide-mounted safety/decocker, and bobbed hammer are all familiar Third Gen features. I’ve always thought S&W did an excellent job with the proportions of this pistol. It’s compact without being excessively small, and there’s very little about the design that seems unnecessary.

This particular 3913 is serial number KLL1165, product code 103730, and came with its original blue S&W factory box bearing the matching serial number. The box carries a date code of 8216, which appears to correspond to August 4, 1998, although that doesn’t necessarily establish the actual shipping date. It’s a standard 3913, not the LadySmith or NL variation, and currently wears a set of Hogue rubber grips. I’m not certain whether those were installed when the pistol was new or added sometime afterward. I rather like them, and the additional texture and slightly fuller grip suit the pistol quite well.

I carried a full-size S&W 4506 throughout my law-enforcement career in the 1990s, so I’ve had a longstanding appreciation for these pistols. I also own a full-size 3906, which shares the single-stack magazine arrangement with the 3913. There’s something appealing about the way S&W maintained the basic operating characteristics of its larger service pistols while scaling them down for concealed carry. Interestingly, all three of my compact Third Gen Smiths have bobbed hammers. It’s a small detail, but one I’ve always appreciated on a carry gun. Less to catch on clothing, and I think it gives these pistols a particularly clean profile.

The 3913 also has some legitimate law-enforcement history. The San Jose Police Department issued them, and the model is specifically mentioned in departmental agreements concerning approved primary duty weapons. There are also accounts of 3913s being used by the California Department of Corrections. One of the more interesting things I discovered while researching this pistol is its reported use by Japanese police, including plainclothes investigators and specialized units involved in organized crime and hostage investigations. The specific unit assignments are less thoroughly documented, but it’s an interesting international connection for a relatively unassuming American compact 9mm.

And, like quite a few Third Generation Smiths, the 3913 enjoyed some time in Hollywood. Mark Ruffalo carried one as Detective Fanning in Collateral (2004), Sandra Bullock used one in Murder by Numbers (2002), and Gina Gershon had one in Face/Off (1997). On television, Ted Levine’s Captain Stottlemeyer carried one in Monk. Not bad for a little single-stack Smith!

The 3913 arrived when everyone seemed to be chasing higher magazine capacities, yet S&W still recognized the value of a slim, well-balanced pistol that was easy to carry and offered the familiar handling characteristics of a full-size service weapon. Nearly 40 years after its introduction, I think it’s one of the better compact pistols to come out of Springfield.

I dont believe in ear docking, so I always go for the adjustable sights when they are an option.

You guys seemed to like my modded 1006 I picked up the other week, but it had this other beauty sitting right next to it that I just couldn't leave behind.

Convinced my brother to pick up this similarly modified 4506-1, the internals are all done up the same as the 1006, some of the parts were left uncoated for a two-tone aesthetic. Other than that, the .45 has Mag-Na-Port cuts in the front of the slide, as well as a gold (brass?) front sight bead insert. Like the 10mm, it also came with 7 magazines, but there are too many projects on the bench right now for me to fit them all in one pic. Pretty much the only other difference I've surmised is that the .45 uses more MIM parts, but the actions feel more or less identical.

Both guns have a weird take up in the trigger when firing in single-action where it seems the drawbar is lifting in the frame about halfway through the trigger pull, which almost gives a feeling like the trigger is being "set". At least on the 10mm, it only seems to happen on the first pull of the trigger. Not sure why it does this, haven't shot either yet to tell if it'll cause an issue. The double-action on both guns is buttery.

For those wondering, the speculation was that these are DLC'ed, but the finish on the .45 has some marks and scratches in it that lead me to believe it's more likely Cerakoted. To be honest, I don't know enough about either process to be able to tell for sure.

So my most recent gun purchase is this S&W Model 411 with 3 10-round magazines for $276.99 plus my FFL's $40 transfer fee. .40 S&W has gotten cheaper lately due to a lack of interest in the caliber, so I wanted something chambered in this powerful yet often overlooked chambering. I got 500 rounds of PMC Bronze 180 grain FMJ and 100 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 165 JHP for fairly cheap, and I can't wait to get to the range with it. Now for having an extremely thick grip, it feels surprisingly good in my small hands. Maybe that's because the grip is rubber and fingers sink in a bit, but it doesn't feel awkwardly oversized like a 1911 does. The only real criticism is the mag release being in a spot that forces me to break my grip a bit, and this isn't helped by the button being so small compared to most modern handguns. I don't know year mine is from, but I'm guessing it was either made during the Assault Weapons Ban or came from a 10-round compliant state before it ended up in Texas and then shipped here to Michigan, since none of the magazines are 11-round like the 411 originally had. Unfortunately they are so stiffly sprung that they function more like 9+1 than 10+1, as a fully loaded mag will not fit with the slide forward. My CSX E-Series had the same problem with its 10-round mags (it came from NJ, so unfortunately that was all it had originally) but later I purchased 12- and 15- round mags that didn't have this problem, so I wonder if an 11-round 411/4006 mag will fix this issue as well. I'll definitely have to lube the slide/frame rails with some white lithium grease, as this gun came bone dry. Aside from some fouling, there is absolutely zero residue of any kind, which is shockingly rare with a used gun. Normally there's at least some remnants of oil or grease, but not on this gun. Normally I use Rem Oil or Ballistol to lubricate a pistol, but I read that oil doesn't work very well due to the alloy frame, which is odd because my Bersa Thunder 380 and Taurus PT 99 AF both use alloy frames and seem to run just fine with oiled slide/frame rails. What does everyone here think? Is this a good introduction to 3rd gens as a whole or do the cost savings negatively impact it compared to something like the 4006, 3906, or 5906? The sights are also Tru-Dot, were they OEM or did someone upgrade it in the past?

I intend to use it as a heavy clothes carry with a crossdraw leather holster, so I think the alloy frame will make it better suited to that purpose. I have a CZ-75B I carry strong side outside the waistband, and while the pistol is designed in a way that doesn't jab or otherwise cause discomfort, the loaded weight of 16+1 124 grain 9mm Federal HST plus the all-steel construction make it feel like a lead weight against my waist. 10+1 (or 9+1, as the magazines allow) of 165 grain Speer Gold Dot .40 in an alloy frame is probably going to be far more tolerable, and I'm giving crossdraw a try because I heard it is more comfy when sitting down, and I also find the drawstroke far more natural to do quickly. I also didn't want something like a Shield or even the full size M&P with a super light polymer frame because I heard .40 produces a lot of recoil (thankfully nowhere near as much as .357 Magnum because I'm still struggling to control that), so alloy seems like a good compromise vs super light polymer what I'm sure is an absolute brick in the all stainless steel 4006.

Need to see in the wild

Been trying to find a mint 5906 for a while now, but ended up finding a NIB 4006. Not only my first 3rd Gen, but also my first .40 S&W!

It's already been run up to 900 in pre-bidding two weeks before auction, which is quite unusual. Apparently these were the counterpart to the old ASP models, but made by a different gunsmith.

Different rear sight, custom transparent grips, shortened slide and frame, shortened magazine (10rd) with window cuts and a new base plate, hooked trigger guard, slide lightening cuts, action job, nickel plating, and maybe some other stuff I'm forgetting. Apparently these were what cool '70s and '80s dudes carried when they didn't want a revolver.

For #45Friday, here’s my Smith & Wesson Model 4516, no dash, serial TCP7817. Introduced at the end of the 1980s, the 4516 was S&W’s compact seven-shot .45 ACP, essentially the little brother in the family that runs from the second-generation 645 into the full-size third-generation 4506. It retained the traditional DA/SA action, ambidextrous safety/decocker, bobbed hammer and all-stainless construction, but packed it into a roughly 3½-inch-barreled pistol weighing around 34 ounces. Apparently “compact” in late-1980s Springfield still meant using a respectable portion of the American steel industry.

The no-dash is the original version, and S&W was still refining the formula. The early guns used a lighter slide, stepped frame and dual recoil springs. The 4516-1 received a heavier slide, revised frame/slide contours, a different recoil setup and revised magazines, while the later 4516-2 brought another round of changes including the extractor, breech face, barrel hood, magazine design and recoil system. I have four of the yellow-follower magazines associated with the revised -1-era design, although I bought those separately on GunBroker and eBay, so they aren’t part of this pistol’s provenance. The evolution from no-dash to -1 to -2 makes the little 4516 a neat snapshot of S&W actively engineering its way through the challenges of making a compact .45.

The model also has a legitimate connection to the LAPD Special Investigation Section, an elite plainclothes surveillance unit known for following violent repeat offenders and armed robbery crews. Retired SIS Detective John Helms recalled members using the larger 645 and 4506, with some detectives buying 4516s as backup and off-duty guns; he also remembered two SIS shootings involving the compact model. SIS operated in a world where surveillance could turn into a gunfight very quickly, such as a 1995 Newbury Park confrontation with armed robbery suspects that left one suspect dead and two SIS detectives seriously wounded. I haven’t found evidence that a 4516 was used in that particular fight, but it gives some perspective on the sort of work these guns were being carried around.

TCP7817 also has a couple of nice early-production details. Another documented no-dash 4516 in the TCP18xx range has an original box dated September 1989, which puts mine in interesting early company even though I wouldn’t try to assign an exact date from the serial number alone. There is also a tiny stamp on the left side of the trigger guard that, in the close-up, looks to me like an inverted T inside a triangle. These letter-and-symbol stamps are generally regarded as S&W factory fitter or inspection marks. They don’t add monetary value, but they’re exactly the sort of little production fingerprint that makes an early gun more fun to examine.

So TCP7817 may not be a Performance Center unicorn or a pistol tied to one famous incident, but the original no-dash 4516 has more story than its size suggests: first-generation engineering, several subsequent factory redesigns, a direct place in the 645/4506 family tree, and documented use by one of LAPD’s most specialized detective units. Not a bad résumé for two pounds of compact stainless steel.

1. I was told made in 1990. I need to stop while I'm ahead. This is my 3rd 3rd gen in last month. Smith better make a new generation of these or even bring back this, too cool to let die out.

I want to convert my 5946TSW from DAO to DA/SA.

Common sense tells me I need the slide safety (both sides) and all the springs and plungers that go along with that, as well as the DA/SA hammer.

It's been a hot minute since I detail stripped the thing, so I forget. Do I need a different sear as well? What else? Is the hammer the only part in the frame that needs to be swapped?

Thanks in advance.

I’ve already posted one of my three 5906s here, the rather unusual one that was converted to single-action-only by Smith & Wesson’s own gunsmithing group, so here’s number two. This one is interesting for almost the opposite reason: it’s about as early and original a 5906 configuration as you’re likely to run across. The serial is TDE8102, and that early serial range was one of the reasons I bought this particular pistol. Based on the serial and its features, it appears to be a likely first-year-production 5906 from around 1989. It has the early narrow fixed rear sight rather than the later Novak, the finger-step/squared trigger guard, and the early forged stainless hammer and trigger.

I initially wondered whether this might properly be called a “transitional” 5906, but after digging into that terminology, apparently not. In S&W collector language, the true Second-to-Third Generation transitionals are guns such as the 6590, 4590, 4690 and 6690, which can actually mix Second Gen and Third Gen components and markings. This pistol is already a bona fide 5906, marked MOD 5906, so the better description is simply a very early, likely first-year Third Generation 5906. In other words, it isn’t halfway between a 659 and a 5906. It’s what the 5906 looked like before the design accumulated the Novak sights and rounded trigger guard most of us associate with later examples.

There’s also a nice bit of military lineage behind the design. S&W’s Model 459, the Second Generation ancestor of the 5906, was one of the pistols entered in the Army’s XM9 service-pistol trials in 1984 alongside the SIG P226, HK P7, Walther P88 and others. Beretta’s 92SB-F ultimately won and evolved into the U.S. military M9, while S&W continued developing its metal-frame autos into the Third Generation family. The all-stainless 5906 arrived shortly afterward and went on to a substantial career of its own with American law enforcement.

The 5906 also managed a pretty respectable screen career. Roger Murtaugh carries one in Lethal Weapon 2 and 3, Mulder and Scully both use 5906s extensively during Season 3 of The X-Files, and a later 5906 ends up in Vincent’s hands for the final act of Collateral. None of that is why I bought this one, but it’s fun history for a pistol that already represents a pretty interesting moment in S&W’s evolution. Mostly, I just thought the Third Gen crowd might appreciate seeing one from very near the beginning of the 5906 story.

Just snagged this 1006 circa ~1990, it's obviously been messed with which is unfortunate, but they appear to have done a decent enough job. I paid a bit more than it's worth in this condition, but the 7 mags and decent-ish holster it came with more than made up for it.

The California Highway Patrol 4006TSW pistol is amongst the strongest built and well thought out generation 3's. I snagged this one from copper customs on the very first drop. The 40S&W is a great load in my opinion but after having paired this with a Brinks security 5946TSW 9MM slide and barrel it becomes something much better. I added the spurred mim hammer, decock only safety assembly, extended 745 magazine release, warren tactical fiber optic front sight, wolf reduced power drawbar spring, mirror polished all internal contact surfaces and the feed ramp , and the met gar 17rd magazine and +2 extension. It has no slide to frame play and it's incredibly smooth to shoot with a dead on poa/poi. Should it get the magwell treatment?

Picked up this early 1006 w/4 mags and is in great condition except ole' hoss' calling card or whatever the fugg inspires someone to laser on "regulator". What's the best way to get this refinished? The engraving isn't very deep. Pre-28 for scale

The 745 is technically a Second Generation Smith, so I realize I’m sneaking one across the border into r/thirdgen. But if there is a Second Gen pistol that belongs here, I think this is it. This is my Smith & Wesson Model 745, serial TBK7074, with its matching serialized factory box and original manual. The 745 sits right at the transition point between the 645-era guns and the Third Generation pistols that followed, and a lot of what Smith & Wesson was learning about competition features, ergonomics, machining, and higher-end fitting was already showing up here.

When I first received it, I’ll admit I was a little disappointed. By then I already owned my Performance Center Model 945, which I consider about as close as Smith & Wesson ever got to the pinnacle of semiautomatic fit, finish, and hand-built refinement, along with a couple of Performance Center revolvers and a Smith & Wesson Model 4013TSW, or Tactical Smith & Wesson. The 4013TSW itself feels like a bridge between ordinary production guns and what S&W would later market more deliberately as Pro Series-type refinement. Against that background, the 745 initially seemed a little plain. The 945, especially, sets an almost unfair standard. It announces its craftsmanship the moment you pick it up. The 745 makes you look for it, and the longer you look, the more of it you find.

The 745 was Smith & Wesson’s purpose-built single-action .45 ACP competition pistol, developed from the Model 645 during the practical-shooting boom of the 1980s. Instead of simply copying the 1911, Smith took its own big-frame .45 platform and reworked it with an adjustable trigger stop, oversized controls, competition-oriented sights, a match-oriented barrel system, walnut stocks, and a cocked-and-locked single-action operating system. Early guns included the IPSC 10th Anniversary examples with DVC-prefix serial numbers, followed by standard-production pistols like mine. Total production appears to have been under 10,000 guns before the model disappeared around 1990, just as the Third Generation family was taking over the catalog. In that sense, the 745 feels less like a dead-end Second Gen and more like one of the last developmental steps before guns such as the 4506 carried Smith’s full-size .45 platform into the next generation.

What really changed my opinion of the pistol was sitting down and studying the frame closely. Smith didn’t simply give the stainless frame one uniform finish. The dust cover, trigger guard, and front strap have a matte bead-blasted finish, while the broad flats of the frame are much more highly polished. Just forward of the model and serial markings there is a deliberate machined step where the frame narrows into the dust cover, and the angle of that cut follows the visual lines of the pistol rather than looking like a purely functional machining operation. The front strap, back strap, and the front face of the squared trigger guard are all finely cross-hatch checkered. That trigger guard detail especially appeals to me because I learned to shoot with my support-hand index finger on the front of the guard, and I still shoot that way today. Add in the crisp rollmarks, the small sharply executed S&W trademark above the trigger guard, the contrast between matte and polished surfaces, and the unusually nice checkered walnut stocks, and you start to see how much hands-on attention went into these guns.

That is also why I’ve come to think of the 745 as a pre-Performance Center Smith & Wesson, with one important bit of nuance. The basic 745 design predates the formal establishment of the Performance Center, and TBK7074, Product Code 103721, appears to be a standard-production 745 rather than one of the later Performance Center special variations. But this isn’t just internet speculation: correspondence from Roy Jinks, Smith & Wesson’s longtime factory historian, identified 5,000 IPSC 10th Anniversary guns, 9,704 standard-variation 745s, and an unknown number of 745 Performance Center special variations. One of those PC variants was also documented as having shipped to Lew Horton. So the most accurate way to describe the lineage is that the 745 anticipated the Performance Center philosophy, and some later 745s were then actually produced as Performance Center specials. Start with an existing S&W platform, add specialized machining and finishing, improve the trigger and controls, incorporate competition-driven features, and devote more hands-on attention to the individual pistol. That lineage is exactly why I think the 745 belongs in the conversation here on r/thirdgen. At some point I may request a Letter of Authenticity from the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation for TBK7074, and if I do, I’ll update the post with whatever the surviving records turn up.

S&W 1006

Screwing around with some of my Smiths ( particularly a my 5904, 469, and 669 ) and came out with this and yes since you asked, it does fuck. Obviously the 469 and 669 are the same guns in a different finish so I swapped them out out to get a two tone 669 and reverse two tone 469 but I got to thinking, would this work? And yes, yes it does for the most part.

I took the flat baseplate off a 5904 mag and replaced the pinky extension baseplate of my 469 mag. Then I took the full 5904 slide assembly and dropped it onto the 669 frame which worked but the guide rod stuck out the front. Swapped the guide rod to the compact 669 one but kept the full length spring and that fixed the issue and now this sucker RUNS. The only issue is that the back of the slide s l i g h t l y runs over the frame and 669/469 mags have a hard time dropping free unless the gun is locked back, so im gonna keep tinkering.

And before someone says it I know Smith offered models like this ( and basically G19 style, full length grip with compact slide ) but both of those were extremely rare and I can't even recall what model numbers they were.

2nd Pic just to show off my sick ass holster. 3rd pic showing what the 469 slide looked like on the 669 frame.

For example, can I take the slide from my 469 and put it on my 6906, and vice versa? Will they function correctly, provided the tolerances don't exceed a certain threshold?

I'm not sure what kind of internal differences exist between the different generations, but from a user perspective they all feel the same.

I picked up a 5906 to keep the 6906 company. Absolutely love the weight of these, and will eventually search for a 1006. Immediately noticed a difference between the two, the slide release is significantly stiffer/harder to use on the 6906. Would this be solved by a spring kit?

Pulled this one back out and figured it deserved a fresh post. This is my S&W 9mm Target Champion, one of the German-market Performance Center Third Gens and easily one of the most special Smith autos in my collection. Mine did the full round trip: born in the U.S., shipped to Germany, and eventually repatriated back home.

The Target Champions were shipped through German distributor/proof house Wischo, and you just don’t see many of them make their way back to the States. The closest U.S. relative is the PPC-9, which S&W built for the law-enforcement competition/PPC crowd. There were several Target Champion/PPC-9 configurations, including 5” and 6” versions, but they share the sort of hand-fitted Performance Center work that made these pistols extraordinary.

This one has the match barrel and Briley spherical barrel bushing, and the accuracy is exactly what you’d expect from that combination. But the trigger may be my favorite part. It’s single-action-only, breaks at roughly 2.5 pounds, and the reset is somewhere around 1 mm. Calling it crisp almost undersells it. There’s barely any movement before you’re ready for the next shot.

I originally posted this gun back in 2021, and five years later my opinion hasn’t changed: the late-’80s through mid-2000s Performance Center period produced some phenomenal pistols, and these highly specialized Third Gens represent that era at its best. This is one of those guns I wanted for years before I ever found one, and it still occupies a pretty lofty spot in the collection.

Finally got around to rebluing this spare 5904 slide I got. Turned out pretty good, we'll see how it holds up. Threw this dot on it with a S&W 1911 -> Docter adapter from EGW, undecided if I'm gonna have it cut it some point to drop it down. That or I'll just give up on putting this Burris FF4 on a pistol and throw it on one of my Ithaca 12ga's. She's already had a DIY "trigger job", so unless I can find someone who can make a rail for it and figure out how to put a 1st/2nd gen removable barrel bushing in it, this is pretty much how it's gonna stay for the time being. Grips are Uncle Mike's I got for like, 12 on eBay.

Don't have a pic handy of the "before" of the slide, but it was down to bare metal on about 40% of the right side from holster wear, somehow there was no pitting so I guess I got lucky. The slide came to me fitted with a simunition barrel, so it likely saw a ton of use in LE training, and was without a doubt the filthiest slide I've ever seen.