On a re-read/listen to BTAH just now, I noticed that the first time we are introduced to Shivers, he’s described as having his face completely covered by his hair hanging down except for one eye peering out!

I’m guessing this has been brought up in the sub before since it’s such a cool little tidbit, but it’s the first time I noticed it.

He brought The Bloody-Nine! 🩸

Man this scene still sticks with me weeks after I finished my first read through. Just such a vicious and badass chapter.

I read a ton and have read few chapters that hit as hard as that one.

“So much work. But good work is the best of blessings”

Man just so cool, no real point of this point but to just say how awesome it was.

I finished the AoM trilogy a couple days ago and just had to make a fancast!

Well, I've read the first trilogy and I want to write my opinions, even if it's just a bit to get it off my chest.

In general, I have found the books to be good, very good even, but I think their final message doesn't quite convince me.

But well, let's break it down a bit. I'm going to go through the characters with POV, plus a couple more (Ardee and Bayaz).

I'm going to divide them into 2 groups: those who I think, in conclusion, gain more than they lose, and those who are the opposite.

They win more than they lose:

- Logen: Surprising, I suppose, but for me, one of the ones who comes out best in the end. Surprising, I suppose, but for me, one of the ones who comes out better in the end. I think the book ends with him starting the journey he tries to begin at the beginning of the first book before Bayaz gets involved. It's just that now he doesn't have the weight of revenge on him. Great scenes (the battle with the Feared, the reunion with Jezal), finally being Bloody-nine does not seem like a problem. And now he can try to be better in a new place with new people. Although it bothers me a bit that in the first book it's more magical than later, I'm thinking about the fire trick that is never used again.

- Ardee: I think it ends well, she manages to climb the social ladder, which I believe was a goal, and with none other than the most powerful man in the Union. I would say she is still alive, but the truth is that in these books, for how dark they are, few protagonists die. Although I wouldn't say it's her dream ending, basically climbing, but also having a husband she loves, not just appreciates (well, and who isn't a wreck of a human being), I think it fits well with the tone of the book. I'm not entirely clear on how she feels at the end when she says, "No one gets what they deserve," although I would say she believes she gets what she deserves, a bit tortured by her mistakes and sees this as a punishment/relief. I think the book would have benefited from having her POV since the female representation is a bit poor and she ends up being a bit of a puppy following other characters around.

- Dogman: I would say this is a character that ends up more neutral, Cathil's arc seems to me like a shitty use of female characters just to advance her pain, but well, she ends up far from the wars even though she loses faith in humanity in the process.

They lose more than they win:

- West: He ends up in a better position, being respected by the other commander and with his sister cared for and forgiving him. A shame he dies, otherwise he would be a true winner.

- Ferro: she acquires the power to carry out her revenge, but she gets completely lost along the way. Very bittersweet for me. Neither ends up having great moments.

And I think there are characters in these groups that I have left out, so I'm going to create two more groups.

Characters who only lose:

- Jezal: The biggest loser in the book by far (partly due to his own decisions, although I think this only applies to Ardee), but maybe I'm a naive romantic and have a preference for characters who start as idiots and improve, but I think he has very few victories. I understand that you are trying to make the plot about how following your dreams can be bad, and that you are trying to be realistic in the sense that actions have consequences, but I feel very sorry for his ending. He ends up imprisoned in a position where he can't help his people, even if he wanted to, with a woman who despises him (and semi-unconsciously rapes her). By the way, Terez is a terrible character too, not in the sense that she is evil, but because she is poorly written, once again a female character who only serves to give growth to a male one. And to top it off, her jailer marries the only person with whom she has had something resembling love. I understand why it tries to subvert the trope of the princess waiting for her prince and thematically punishes classism, but I think it goes too far, bordering on caricature.

And finally, characters who only win

- Bayaz: The great villain, I love to hate him. But he's a real bastard, he just wants to take over the world like a Disney villain. But even so, I like his trope of seeming like someone who believes the end justifies the means to a simple megalomaniac.

- Glotka: In the end, we come to Glotka. I know he is quite beloved in the fandom, but I haven't found him to be such a great character. On one hand, I don't find him that clever, just competent, and with plot armor. In the first book, he fails all his conclusions, in the second he only gets by because he has Bayaz's extra money, and in the third he does show a couple of moments of genuine ingenuity, like when he talks to Vitari about her children, but then the rest of the inquisitors just go along with it, he has extorted our "boss" so we won't do anything, even though if this goes wrong we'll lose our lives, as they say, plot armor. Logen also has plot armor when he fights, but he has a downside, Glotka only has it and that's it. He also forgives or executes people randomly (well, not so much, he has a preference for women, to be honest) but he never faces any real long-term consequences. If Jezal is a slave to his few bad decisions, Glotka makes quite a few more and nothing remarkable happens to him. He ends up being the most powerful man in the Union and married to a girl he likes, which also serves to torture poor Jezal a little more. And all this happens to him while being the most miserable man in the work, perhaps even more than Bayaz.

Ending with Glotka brings me to my big problem with the work; I just don't understand the point when it comes to choosing endings. One option is that decisions have consequences, but then I don't understand why many of Glotka's decisions have no consequences or why what happens to West has nothing to do with his decisions. If it's a bit karmic "no one gets what they deserve," I think it's a message of being cynical for the sake of being cynical, not lasting for being realistic, that the worst people fare better simply for being worse.

Holy shit.

The only ending I didn't like was Logen's. Everyone else had an ending that befit them, to be honest. Never did I think that when I read the blurb and saw, "a barbarian blah blah blah" (I don't like the barbarian stories) and begrudgingly started the first book, that I would be starting my favorite series of fiction in any space of media.

The Devils was my first Abercrombie book, and I did not like it whatsoever. I know why, after finishing these three books. They're not perfect, but damn, are they great.

I’m admittedly extremely early, but so far the Heroes feels a bit more of a return to the writing of the original after Best Served Cold seemed a very different vibe.

The character that surprised me the most so far has been Gorst! I did not expect his inner monologue to be anything like how it was. I suppose that’s intentional, I always enjoyed Gorst’s character a lot but this feels like it totally changes everything I know about his character. What I’m wondering is though, is this new darker inner thoughts in response to losing his station after being made to ah scapegoat for Jezal’s incident in Cipani or has Gorst always had these dark bitter and judgmental thoughts but we just never could hear them.

Another thing I feel like I missed somewhere along the way is the unions war with the North. The last I left off these stories it felt like Black Dow was going to war with the remnants of anyone loyal to Bethod such as Scale and Calder but now instead of that it seems Black Dow is at war with the union. What does he even want from the union? I haven’t heard anything about what his goals are and why is Dogman now working against him for the union? I feel like I must have missed something because between LAoK and The Heroes I don’t even understand anyone’s motivations anymore. It’s very possible it left off like this and I just got lost with so much else going on in the plot but I just feel a little confused and could use some clarification.

I’ve finished all of Abercrombie’s full-length books, and he’s easily my favorite author so far.

What series/books have you read that live up to what I’ve come to expect from these sorts of stories? I tend to like sci/fi and fantasy but don’t limit answers to those genres if you have something really good.

Thanks!

Why would this incredibly important and powerful guy live in a fortified library in the middle of nowhere? What was he doing there and why there specifically? I'm halfway through my fourth reread and my third was a while ago so i might have forgotten something

Heya friends,

I posted a while back about our song The Great Leveller when it came out. We opened a show the other day and someone recorded a clip so I just thought I'd share it here for any metal fans in the sub!

Our band is called Towers Below, we are from Brisbane, Australia.

This song is something I wrote about Logen, the dichotomy of his existence and his past always catching up with him. The lyrics are on our spotify and YT pages if you're interested.

I hope to write another song First Law related soon, it's just tough to choose who to write about!

Box is already coming apart after only taking the books in & out 3 times. SMH, the master maker, would cry if he could see it

That scene in Troy where the Vigo wolf fights the slithering, abominable patchwork fiend cooked up by Eudoxia ended up being a really cool, accidental treatise on how the ego works.

During the confrontation against that necrotic monstrosity welded together from bovine legs and hooves, fish heads, snake parts, and the fleshy bits of sundry woodland creatures—a werewolf , the Vigo wolf, driven entirely by a primal pursuit of "the good meat" finally gets what she wants when the universe drops an infinite buffet of flesh right in front of her.

To her surprise, this is no easy meat though. Her endless hunger almost ends with her being the one being consumed by the fleshy wyrm.

I don't know what it is, but something about that entire turnaround struck me while listening to Steven Pacey work his magic—especially after Abercrombie spent the entire book setting up the "good meat" catchphrase. It mirrors the exact way the ego operates: always demanding more, yet structurally impossible to satisfy. In fact, it is the ego's fate to be consumed by its own appetites if not brought to heel. And as we know, the werewolf was very much not heeled.

Bad doggy! Very bad doggy!

Anyway.... I ended up writing a longer essay unpacking this fight, the audio performance, and how it mirrors doom-scrolling and the modern ego on Substack:

https://riskyourlyfe.substack.com/p/the-smorgasbord-of-the-ego-joe-abercrombie?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=96pp6b

It’s my first public essay ever, so check it out and let me know what you think! Share it with a friend if you like it, or share it if you hate it and want to roast me. Also, I'm working on my own first novel as well, so if you like my general "voice" in the essay, maybe stay tuned for some excerpts from the novel I'll be putting out soon. Okay, byyyyeeeeee

Series is awesome. Super well done. I also find I don't like anyone I meet in this series except like four people. Everyone else is just a giant asshole. 

To some degree, I'm even not sure what I just read. We did all this. Went through all this journey. Saw so many deaths and all of it just so Bayaz can play his chess game? Why does he even do it? Sounds like he's more bored than anything else. Everybody under his boot. And who's to say he won't decide to just destroy the entire kingdom he built one of these days? I'm annoyed by him. 

Dogman, for sure, was my favorite character (Brother Longfoot close second). Him especially gained absolutely nothing from this whole ordeal. Except seeing all his friends die. Forley, Threetrees, Tul Duru Thunderhead (fuck you, Logen), Grim and even Furious too at the end. I reread the passage of Forley's funeral and it hit even deeper. 

‘Fare you well, Forley,’ said the Dogman. ‘No more fear.’

Forley was one of the four people I liked. I got as tired as Dogman was with Logen's realistic talk. Sidenote, do we ever learn what Dogman's actual name is? Just curious. 

At the beginning of the book, I found myself missing the group of Logen, Ferro, Jezal and company. By the end I was just like nvm all these people kinda just suck. 

Logen... He just literally can't control himself. He already killed Tul and almost killed Dogman. I honestly missed the part where he killed Crummock's son, but that happened too. Following an evil murderer is one thing. Following a guy who might stab you if he walked past him at the wrong moment is another. I get that when he's himself he's actually a pretty nice guy. But the bloody nine is still part of him. Can't divorce the two. And apparently Logen has no way of controlling it somehow. 

So I couldn't even be mad when Dow turned on him. Only surprise was Shivers washed his hands of the business. Good for him, I guess. And I really laughed at this passage:

‘Don’t suppose you fancy giving a man a fair chance, and letting me have that blade, eh?’

Dow grinned wider than ever. ‘What’s my name? White Dow?’

I'm annoyed by Glokta too tbh. First off, he captures poor innocent Longfoot and breaks his toe for no reason. Second, it really strikes me that from all the POVs we have, Glokta is the one who literally never thinks of anyone but himself. I get he's in pain, but damn. Never thinks of his mother, never thinks of any of the men who died following him, never thinks of a former friend. Nobody. And he only hates Jezal because Jezal is who Glokta used to be. And for a guy who claims he wants to die and only has one good foot, he's especially good at running away from death and always dodging it. I suppose there's a funny irony in him raising Jezal's child. And now he's under the thumb of an even worse tyrant. Somehow that's the most positive outcome of any character. 

After his journey in book 2, I was just annoyed by anyone who was mean to Jezal. Terez especially. Bayaz called Jezal a coward at the end and I just don't agree with that. He tries to make the best out of situations. He named West Lord Marshal when everyone else was ready to just bicker about it. And now he's a king with absolutely zero power forced to take orders from Bayaz through the guy who married his ex girlfriend. And a wife who hates him even though he did nothing to her. 

Btw, why didn't Glokta kill Ardee though? Is it just simple affection he had for her? He claims to feel nothing and to care about nothing so I don't know. He's killed innocent people before and did it without blinking. Glad he didn't, she didn't deserve to die. Just curious why Glokta chose not to do it. 

Feels weird to really love a series as much as I did this one and be frustrated by so much of the ending of all these characters.

Thanks for letting me unleash all these thoughts I have. I've already ordered the three stand alones. So back to the page, I go.

Maybe not the most accurate depiction but I cant help but reference this mans appearance when I read passages with Calder in them. I still do it and partially through "Wisdom of Crowds"

I have to say there are quite a few for me. I started making a list. Not just sad moments, sometimes wholesome ones get me choked up:

- Ardee telling Jezal she’ll wait for him
- Yulwei hugging Ferro as he says goodbye in Adua
- Glokta and West reconciling
- Logen saying goodbye to Jezal at the beginning of LAOK.
- Jezal telling Logen he’s the best man he knew.
- Beck bidding his mother and brother farewell
- Dow’s line in the Heroes: “the clay made my hands so soft.”
- Calder hugging Scale and giving him the chain
- Beck reuniting with his mom and brother
- Timber protecting his kids in Sharp Ends
- Broad reuniting with his family early in ALH
- Rikke and Savine meeting/exchanging necklaces
- Terez reuniting with the countess Shalere
- Hilde and Orso going their parting near the end of TWOC

Whose decisions, conscious or unconscious, in your opinion caused the most problems and had the most consequences in the entire series?

My choice:

Conscious - Bayaz, obvious choice

Unconscious - Major West, by meeting Ardee with Jezel unconsciously created power struggle in TAOM

I'm on my first re-read of the trilogy and every time I read Crummock-i-Phail, the person that comes to mind is Ciarán Hinds and I'm not sure why. But if they ever make a TV show/Movie out of these book, I hope they cast him.

It’s hard to choose just one, but if I had to pick:

A description of Gorst in Sharp Ends - “He looked like a clenched fist.”

Also, Stour and Clover’s little tryouts looking for a magic user to contend with Rikke.

I recently got the the First law trilogy box set (paperback), and have so far finished "the blade itself" and am now reading "Before they are hanged". I have noticed that Gloktas chapters contain weird spacing issues in italicized text, has anyone else had this issue?

See the image for example. If it is intentional by Joe, please also don't spoil. This was just something strange I noticed and seems like a misprint.

Edit: Note that it isn't just stylistic for Gloktas letters further don't the page in his thoughts it is also the case

Rikke will birth Orso’s child

Savines twins will fight each other for the throne or Audie will take it. Sorry Herald

hildi and the boy are going to be eaters

bayaz will try to stop the age of progress because it screwed him over.

thats all

I’m in the midst of my first re-read of the whole fantastic series, and of course picking up things I couldn’t really have noted on the first read. Especially in a story that spans so many years, it’s easy for there to be small butterfly-effect style things that have big implications down the road. I came across one that I found interesting.

In the waning chapters of Last Argument of Kings, after the Battle of Adua, the Closed Council meets and discusses (among other things) what to do with the children of the fled traitor Lord Brock. You’ll remember that Lord Brock sided with the Gurkish in the hopes of being put on the throne.

Now, we who have read the entire series love to hate Leo dan Brock and point out that he is only alive through the good graces of King Orso, Jezal’s son, when Orso spares him at the end of The Trouble With Peace. But it’s easy to forget that Leo owes his entire existence to King Jezal, whose son he rises against executes.

Going back to LAOK, the Closed Council is poised to approve the execution of Lord Brock’s children — one of which we will later learn is Harod “Hal” dan Brock, the husband of Finree and father to Leo. The Closed Council seems completely content with the execution of Hal and his unnamed sister.

It is only through one of King Jezal’s rarely successful defiances of Bayaz that Lord Brock’s children are instead released, a noble action that will tragically (though indirectly) lead to the death of King Jezal’s son.

Just an interesting little tidbit I thought I’d share. If you didn’t find it interesting or you already noted it, at least I gave you another reason to say “fuck Leo” on this fine Saturday morning.

EDIT: ah failure to proofread. don’t come after me for saying “Brock’s” in the title when I meant “Brocks.” I will pay for my sins.

So a few weeks back I finished The Wisdom of Crowds and The First Law has quickly become my favorite series. I'm not gonna hop on it right now, but I'm already feeling the itch for another series like it. Any recs? Already read ASOIAF, tried getting into Black Company last year and didn't enjoy it.

Im about 75% through Last Argument, once i start I can't put it down! But the last three times that I have stopped were immediately after reading squelched. This was the 14th time. (There is only one left and it is almost near the end of the book, i checked)

I also just had to see the math on this so I went back:

The Blade Itself- 2 uses

Before They Are Hanged - 8 uses

The Last Argument of Kings - 15 uses (6 of which are packed within only a hundred or so pages)

Granted, TLAK is about as quarter longer than the other two.

Me, having learned the word originally as a kid playing Diablo 2 where "squelch" means to mute, I am also hit with blunt-force cognitive dissonance when Abercrombie is indicating some wet fart sound from under a muddy boot.

Anyone else notice this or another pet word J.Aber likes?