r/TheCrownNetflix • u/odinsfrigga • 14d ago
Discussion (TV) Queen Elizabeth
I'm on Season 3 Episode 6. I always grew up loving Queen Elizabeth II. She was the only queen most of my life. I was thrilled about The Crown coming out, but haven't had the time to just sit & binge. I have to say, the 1st 2 seasons reinforced my love for the queen & really Prince Phillip also. The 3rd season; however, has me liking her less with each episode. Not to mention I do not like the actress playing her. I mean her eyes went from blue to brown? ANYWAY I am starting to see just how cold she was? I never cared for Charles. Now I'm getting a little understanding into him. I kinda feel for him & his siblings.
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u/hazelgrant 14d ago
Bravo! You have arrived at the multi-dimensional realm of the central subject (and I think the aim of the genius writers). We all have significant flaws, including the late queen. How you wrestle with them and change your opinion will now be left entirely up to you :)
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u/FriendlyWorldArt 14d ago
Both actresses are considered to be excellent, so the production team had to decide between giving Olivia Coleman blue contacts, which could be equally distracting, or having her play the Queen and letting her acting shine through the eyes color change.
I agree that it was a pretty significant appearance change, but I do think it was worth it to have Olivia.
They might have been influenced by the complaints about Jenna Colemanâs blue contacts in Victoria, which a lot of viewers didnât like.
Do you think the Queen in season 3 is coming across less sympathetic? I thought that more toward the last two seasons
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u/SpecialistDrink2071 14d ago
Just give it time, youâll hate Charles again soon
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u/Thedonitho 14d ago
they did their very best to portray him in a positive light too. They really didn't even scratch the surface of the true dirtbag he is.
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u/odinsfrigga 14d ago
I was wondering about that.
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u/Rivendel93 14d ago
Charles is impossible to like lol, he's such a child.
Diana had her issues, clearly, but Charles is much older than her and just constantly acts like he's a 17 year old with the worst life ever.
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u/thepingpongsisters 14d ago
In the end, I liked all three versions of the Queen. Claire Foy was the young, vulnerable new queen that became the slightly bitter, but much more confident middle aged woman in Seasons 3&4 played to perfection by Olivia Coleman. I struggled with Imelda Staunton, but she captured the enigma that QE2 becomes. And the ending had me sobbing.
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u/Cute-Cheesecake-6823 12d ago
Same here. I love Olivia Coleman in whatever she is in, this being no exception (it did take a little getting used to though). All three actors are awesome in their own ways.
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u/jonesnori 14d ago
Do remember that this is fictionalized. None of us actually know what went on behind the scenes, and the producers and directors have chosen how to present even what we do know, not always accurately. It might be better than shown, or worse.
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u/Sweetdeerie 14d ago
It took me a bit to get used to new actress for the Queen, even tho I absolutely love Olivia Colman. But I think she became my favorite portrayal of the Queen.
I absolutely loved Charles in 3&4. I do think it is mostly heavy lifting of the actor, Josh O'Connor. He was my favorite character of the entire whole series. Every time he was on a screen I knew I was in for a good time. Loved Charles.
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u/themonsterbrat Olivia Colman 14d ago
To be fair, you're binging the series. I watched them as they aired and did not notice the eye colour change, but most certainly did upon rewatch, since it was back to back
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u/RowIntelligent6582 14d ago
Iâm autistic and donât look people in the eye and this might apply to shows/cameras because I didnât even notice. đ
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u/NefariousnessNext967 14d ago
Wait until Season 4, Episode 4 "Favorites"Â
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u/Low-Cartographer7197 14d ago
"gasp You said that alarmingly quickly!" My favorite line in that episode.
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u/One_Rub_780 14d ago
Season 3 compared to 1 & 2 are like night and day. I think they aged her way too fast. Let's be honest, it was the cast who made the first 2 seasons so special.
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u/introvertednurseeee 14d ago
Agreed. No shade to Olivia Coleman, sheâs a great actress. But they aged the entire cast too quickly.
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u/BeautifulFragrant907 14d ago
Dang I am watching this now. About to start season 3. They changed the actors for the Queen and Phillip? đđđđ But I am enjoying the both of them!
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u/Rindsay515 14d ago
They change everyone 3 times. The cast changes again in S5
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u/BeautifulFragrant907 13d ago
Woooo seriously? That's crazy. Well I just started season 3 today and I feel so disconnected now. I guess I will carry on with it lol. Thanks so much for the heads up on this!
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u/ItinerantJeweler 13d ago
It takes place over such a long span of time that they pretty much have to change the actors. For what it's worth, I really like the new set of actors for each shift.
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u/BeautifulFragrant907 13d ago
Yeah started season 3 today. I got it from the library. I am kind of disconnected though but I will keep with it! Thanks for the heads up on things!
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u/odinsfrigga 14d ago
The actress has different eyes. My husband couldn't get over that & has stopped watching. I couldn't agree more though. What a great cast all the way around in season 1 & 2.
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u/One_Rub_780 14d ago
I think it was a bad call on their part not to just 'age' the original cast the way Hollywood and the movie biz does, then it wouldn't have been so jarring. I honestly liked the series less and less after the first 2 seasons.
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u/Total-Cat8191 7d ago
I also loved Josh OâConnors portrayal of Charles & could never really accept the other 2 actors that were Charles.
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u/dj_1973 13d ago
I love season 3-4. I think Colemanâs middle-aged queen was wonderful. Helena Bonham Carter as Margaret stole the show. Princess Anneâs actress is amazing. Tobias Menzies as Philip is brilliant.
It was a change from the young people in s1-2, who were also excellent actors, but being closer to middle age myself, I could really sympathize with this era.
Margaret was my favorite character in these seasons, though. Red hot mama indeed!
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u/islandgirl6565 14d ago
On the Charles portrayal. I don't like him and never have. I can't work out if the "candlelit dinner: with Camilla P B was supposed to make us like him or not?
The whole speech about waiting for his mother to die to find his place in the world was touching because we know it is true. It is true of anyone in the shadow of a parent.
Then he did the practical joke on Camilla with the envelope and his glee. "BANG!" The sense of humour of a 6 year old boy.
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u/KenBisky11 14d ago
S3 is dragging for me. I loved 1&2 with Claire and Matt. The new actors are fine, it just feels like a completely series.
The mining accident and Coup episodes were phenomenal though.
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u/Capable-Bat5805 14d ago
I had the same reaction when the cast changed for season 3. But you get used to it quick after the initial, jarring change. It helped that all the actors are so damn good regardless of the season.
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u/Electr0n1c_Mystic 14d ago
Thank you, I'm not alone
Struggling to keep going in s3
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u/Capable-Bat5805 14d ago
My favorite parts in season 3 and 4, and some of my favorite parts of the entire series are the scenes and relationship with PM Harold Wilson. They both start out with a certain level of mistrust and weariness of each other. He was her first Labor PM and she and the Royal family assumed he was a Republican who wanted to do away with the monarchy. And he assumed she was a staunch conservative who was against everything he cared about. Neither was correct in their assumptions and he quickly becomes one of her favorite PMs and confidant. Before he left office, she personally invited him and his wife to dine with her and Phillip. Not a official or state dinner reception. Just a private dinner with the queen at the palace. The only other PM she did that with was Churchill.
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u/KenBisky11 14d ago
I miss Churchill. But I am enjoying Wilson a lot, he is my favourite PM besides him.
The show does a good job at using interesting relationships and dynamics. Charles and the Welsh Nationalist, Wilson and the Queen, Churchill and the Painter, Margaret and Elizabeth, David and the Royals.
It is very clear and strong writing.
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u/Capable-Bat5805 14d ago
For sure, I also really like the smaller, character driven interactions. It gives more depth and humanizes the royal family a little more than just being the monolithic "Crown". One of my favorite scenes is in the Aberfan episode, where the Queen confides to Wilson that she has always struggled to show and feel emotions about things and feels like she failed when she went to the site of the disaster and admits to "faking" a tear. He could have placated her, lied to her and kiss the ring. Instead he admits his own lies. And explains there is the person you show to the public because you have to be that person for them, and theres the person you really are. I like how he reassures that she did well and there is nothing wrong with her.
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u/Rindsay515 14d ago
I think the private dinner was at Downing Street, for Churchill and Wilson both. It made it more of a honor for the PMs that they got to host for the Queen
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u/Ok-Trainer3150 14d ago
As someone who lived in the UK for those early years, much if The crown is fiction. And as for the Diana stuff ...a lot of that was pure fiction. Take it with a grain of salt.
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u/Different_Lychee8750 13d ago
Read Paul Burrels latest book. Heâs very honest about the queen and youâll fall back in love with her.
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u/MeganRay1211 14d ago
I agree to a certain extent however The Queen was cold I believe because the life she had wasn't really the one she wanted to live. Her uncles abdication and her fathers death really did a number on her psyche. The way her relationships with Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward were portrayed was very true to form with some poetic license for the firm. She was harder on Charles because she knew he'd become king. And with Charles's antics surrounding the affair and divorce. If he really wanted to marry Camilla when they were originally together he'd have abdicated his title at the time but he knew Elizabeth would be pissed if he had. He was a chicken. Did what his mother said and not what he WANTED to do.
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u/catchyerselfon 14d ago
When they were originally together Charles wasnât ready to settle down and Camilla wanted to be Andrew Parker-Bowlesâ wife more than she wanted to be the next Queen Consort with all the sacrifices and scrutiny that entails. Charles wouldnât have had to abdicate or give up any of his privileges if he married Camilla when she was unmarried (but hung up on APB), she just had a bit of a reputation for sleeping around, nothing as big as being divorced, being Catholic, being from an enemy country, etc⊠Charles and Camilla didnât get married because they werenât ready/didnât want to, and regretted it later.
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u/einsteinGO 14d ago
Thatâs a leap
He wouldâve abdicated but Elizabeth wouldâve been pissed?
He seemed to stay the heir with all its trappings and entitlements willingly
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u/SnooCompliments8874 14d ago
Charles at the time thought there were many fish in the sea, why he didnât pursue Camilla more. Plus he was away in the military. At 33 he had to start thinking of marrying. Why his grandmother and Dianaâs grandmother set up this arranged marriage with Diana. Abdicating is comical at that time.
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u/bianca_fathom The Corgis đ¶ 14d ago
If Charles had given up his claim to the throne to marry Camilla then Andrew would have become next in line.
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u/MeganRay1211 14d ago
Which would have been worse in the long run with what whats been coming out over the last few years especially since The Queen stripped him of any and all of his titled before she died.
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u/LittleMozzie66 14d ago
I grew up loving Queen Elizabeth too, which is why I refuse to watch this tripe
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u/Union-Silent 13d ago
I saw a woman who was thrust into a very difficult and public position, and all things considered, did very well under the constant scrutiny and pressure.
But her dedication to the role most likely took a toll on her ability to be a mother. She could at times be distant or cold towards her children; she just didnât have the bandwidth left to be focused on them. Nannies and staff would have done the day to day child rearing, and with long absences or travel, Iâm sure it created awkwardness at times. Especially with Charles and Ann.
I feel for her. And I admire her character and sense of duty
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u/Rufio_Rufio7 14d ago
If theyâd told the whole truth about her, weâd probably all change our minds. But everything about her image is carefully curated, even in this show.
Sheâs just a person like everyone else, and her views were not always nice ones, and damn sure not Phillipâs.
Productions and actors have a way of swaying us, though. Clayre did a great job.
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u/United_Gift3028 14d ago
OMG, you're watching a fictionalized drama, and you're worried about eye color on different actors. Take it with a grain of salt, no one who was there is telling the absolutely true story.
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u/MaisieStitcher 13d ago
I think you have to remember that Queen Elizabeth 2 was a product of her upbringing. She was raised by nannies, so her children were raised by nannies. It was how aristocratic families did it back then.
There was very little warmth towards the children as we know it today, and she and Phillip didn't see anything wrong with that because they didn't know any other way.
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u/FederationOne 14d ago
I have no idea how anyone watches the first two seasons of The Crown and walks away feeling more affection for Elizabeth Windsor. The season is all about the ways in which the monarchy perverts and distorts natural human relationships and inflicts profound abuse upon its members. The climax of the first season is literally all about how Elizabeth betrayed her sister and ruined her life by breaking her promise and refusing to let her marry the man she loved.
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u/Federal_Gap_4106 14d ago
I think one's perception depends on whether one believes there are more important things in life than personal happiness and comfort, including that of other people. This show's entire premise, as summed up in Mary of Theck's letter, is that such things exist, and they should be prioritized. To quote Richard Lovelace, «I could not love thee, Dear, so much, / Loved I not Honour more». So what may look like perversion of human nature to you looks like courageous fulfillment of one's duty to me.
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u/FederationOne 14d ago
The only duty that got fulfilled was the preservation of the Windsor family status on the class hierarchy, Elizabeth's in particular. It wasn't about "duty," it was about Elizabeth keeping her job.
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u/Federal_Gap_4106 14d ago
But preserving the monarchy and people's respect for it is exactly Elizabeth's duty. She serves the British crown, not her sister. You may interpret it as purely self-preservation, but that's not what the series shows us.
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u/FederationOne 13d ago
That is exactly what season one of The Crown shows us. Remember, she makes the decision to betray Margaret and violate her promise after she has a phone call with her uncle, the former king. He urges her to give in to the pressure to deny Margaret permission to marry Townsend because of how miserable he has been since losing his throne. The Crown clearly depicts Elizabeth as being primarily motivated by her own desire to keep her job and its attendant status at the summit of the class system.
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u/Federal_Gap_4106 13d ago edited 13d ago
Sorry, but I just can't see it or think of the whole situation as "a betrayal". There is just zero evidence in the show that what drives the Queen is some ugly self-interest.
I also read her conversation with her uncle in a completely different way, as it happens to be one of my favourite scenes in the show: he is actually shown to be able to rise above his personal circumstances and speak as a monarch and not as a dissenter. The Duke admits that what she should do is protect the kingdom, not succumb to "personal indulgences". Even if he chose to do otherwise, he still knows what is the right thing to do. You could probably call it self-preservation in the sense that doing one's duty is self-preservation, and breaking it is self-sabotage, because it undermines the strength of one's mind and soul.
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u/FederationOne 13d ago
What do you think the point of the scene depicting her as making up her mind after talking to her uncle was then? Showing her as only coming to a decision after her uncle says "Don't give up your job; losing the throne will make you miserable" sure sounds like self-interest.
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u/Federal_Gap_4106 13d ago
That's not at all what I hear in that conversation. At that point in time there was no threat of a revolution even in the hypothetical case of the Queen giving her sister a permission to marry without any additional conditions such as leaving the country or giving up her royal privileges. So for the Queen it is - according to the show - a matter of doing the right thing, not about keeping the throne. And it's not an easy choice. The reason why the conversation with her uncle helps her finally make up her mind is that even the person who supposedly chose "love" and who supports Margaret in her pursuit of love, tells her that her duty is to do a different thing. In her mind it probably looks like the most objective opinion, as it comes from someone who has all the reasons in the world to say otherwise.
Also, the Duke never tells her she will be miserable if she stops being a queen. What he says is that she will always be miserable, "the agony never stops" in any case. But in her case, as long as she remains Queen, there is only one way forward.
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u/FederationOne 13d ago
If there is no threat of revolution, then the monarchy would not be in danger if she had to abdicate. The only thing at stake is whether Elizabeth keeps her job or becomes a merely vastly wealthy aristocrat.
The exact line Uncle David speaks is this: "I will always be half-King. My tragedy is that... I have no Kingdom. You have it. And you must protect it."
In other words: "I hate not being king anymore. You would be miserable not being queen anymore. Protect your job status."
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u/Federal_Gap_4106 12d ago
I have a feeling we watched two very different shows :)
The Queen would not have had to abdicate even if she had given her permission to her sister's marriage. It would, however, have severly undermined the authority of the monarchy back in the day, 20 years after the previous major crisis. I understand that you apparently do not place a high value on the monarchy as a concept or a system, and hence you seem to focus on Elizabeth's personal status as the main thing at stake. Whereas to me, the monarchy is the most important value in the series that trascends the personal values of those serving it, including the monarch. So the way I see it, what is at stake is the image of the monarchy that Elizabeth cares for.
I also don't agree with taking the Duke's words out ouf the context. He does not speak about his unhappiness, this is very clearly in the context of what came before: that a monarch is always torn down the middle, and no matter what you choose, you will always be paying the price. If you renounce your duty, it will feel like an amputated limb forever (=my tragedy is that I have no kingdom), but if you remain faithful to it, you will have to hurt those closest to you (= your tragedy is that you have a kingdom and must protect it).
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u/catchyerselfon 14d ago
Which is totally fictional to support Peter Morganâs thesis for the series, which, as you said, is about how the Crown and the Monarch comes between love/freedom vs duty/sacrifice. The scenarios where Elizabeth/her mother/Uncle Dickie/Philip forced Margaret and Peter apart, then did the same thing with Charles and Camilla, are highly exaggerated. Both relationships had their obstacles but if all four REALLY wanted to get married after several years, they couldâve done it without giving up that much.
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u/FederationOne 14d ago
Okay, but that doesn't explain why the text of The Crown, even if inaccurate, would inspire affection for Elizabeth and the Windsor family. They're all depicted as emotionally stunted, classist, and abusive people. This show is not pro-monarchy.
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u/OkRB2977 đ 14d ago
The Queen was a wonderful public servant and discharged her duties as the monarch well but she was a deeply flawed human who made quite a few mistakes, the worst of which happens to be how she raised Andrew and protected him until her dying breath.
But yeah, she also comes across as a bad mother to Anne and Charles. However, this is where the makers took creative liberty since we donât know what the real internal dynamics between her and her older 2 children were like.