r/SurvivalGaming • u/FunkMunki • 7d ago
Do city builders and colony sims with survival mechanics belong here?
Greetings Survivors,
The mod team has been discussing whether or not city builders and colony sims with survival mechanics, such as hunger and thirst should be allowed in the community. We understand that these types of games can host a lot of familiar survival mechanics but are often defined as a colony sim or city builder due to their perspective (third person).
Since we are all somewhat conflicted on this, we've decided to leave it up to the community to vote.
Clarification: I want to make sure that everyone knows that by "perspective" I mean first person vs third person not how someone would view the genre of the game. I'm not sure if this needed to be said.
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u/Mekoha22 7d ago
Id say games with a first person character that has survival mechanics tied in but you still build up a village (ala midieval dynasty or Conan exiles) are definitely a solid fit. There are a few exceptions in the 3rd person city builder/colony Sim style that might fit (Frostpunk 1 and 2) but most of them even with food/water/ weather survival mechanics tend to focus more on colony management over the survival aspects amd should then be relegated to their own subs.
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u/ShingetsuMoon 7d ago edited 7d ago
Personally, I say yes, with caveats.
It would need a dedicated tag so those not interested in them can simply filter them out.
Plus,the actual “survival” mechanics should be a core, central point of the game, like Frostpunk. Not simply a hunger and thirst meter.
If survival is central to the core concept of the game then I don’t see why it shouldn’t be included even if it is a city builder or colony sim as well.
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u/Into_The_Booniverse 7d ago
It's really hard to say. People consider Medieval Dynasty a survival colony sim, but it feels more just like a Medieval farming sim than a survival game, despite it having some typical survival mechanics.
Almost every colony sim could be considered a survival game because your job is to help your colony survive.
I would say if the player has autonomy and a playable character, and survival mechanics are at the heart, then yes. If it's a management style colony sim, then no.
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u/phthalo-azure 7d ago
I think you nailed it, and that's the needle we're trying to thread as mods. I suspect the vote is going to be split pretty hard among the three choices, but if I personally had to choose the line it would be having a playable character that needs to be sustained to survive. It's going to be a bugger to decide exactly where the line sits, and we'll probably end up giving the benefit of the doubt to any games that come close.
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u/Into_The_Booniverse 7d ago
While we're here, how do we feel about friendslop with survival mechanics? Is Peak a survival game?
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u/phthalo-azure 7d ago
Personally I wouldn't consider it a survival game, but there may be people who do. With the creativity from indie devs in making cross-genre and mixed genre games, I think the question is going to get tougher in the years ahead.
As mods, we generally keep up posts from games that may have a questionable survival-game pedigree if they're getting engagement. If the community is engaged and appears to enjoy the content, we try not to kill that conversation.
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u/Dapper-Presence4975 7d ago
I think if your screen can fade out because you died of hunger or thirst, you're playing a survival game. Otherwise, you are playing a strategic game with survival elements.
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u/tigress666 7d ago
So valheim is not a survival game? ;)
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u/ConfusedAndCurious17 7d ago
Technically you are already dead in that game so is survival really the point?
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u/PositiveFunction4751 7d ago
Frostpunk is an excellent example of a colony sim that fits here
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u/Into_The_Booniverse 7d ago
In my opinion, pretty much the only colony sim that belongs here. The sense of constant tension and fighting for survival defines that game.
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u/NotScrollsApparently 7d ago
But that's all the non-cozy colony sims? What about banished or ixion, maybe even FF? They are also constantly tense and fighting to survive another year
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u/Dapper-Presence4975 7d ago
It’s tough where to draw the line. I definitely consider Banished a survival game.
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u/PositiveFunction4751 7d ago
I suspect that we could find a few more too
The problem with defining games by a single genre Or gatekeeping on subs is I can find a game that saddles nearly any 2 genres
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u/mbowk23 7d ago
Rimworld?
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u/Dapper-Presence4975 7d ago
I kinda consider this an RPG with survival memes in it. It’s such a ridiculous and unforgiving game.
I don’t really think of it as “surviving” rather than just seeing what happens if I micromanagement a bad dice roll.
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u/Funkhip 6d ago
Frostpunk is a city-builder, not a colony-sim. Small-scale one perhaps, but a city-builder nonetheless (I don't understand why so many people seem to confuse these genres).
I see no reason why it should be in this sub or considered a survival game, as the mechanics are completely different.
A colony sim (like Rimworld for example), on the other hand, absolutely belongs here imo. It is heavily focused on survival mechanics (more so than many games considered "classic" survival games), and involves the same challenges and gameplay loops.
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u/Neuro-Ripped 7d ago
Not looking forward to more obscure games added in here. Ther are already posted that I don't consider survival, mostly these survival shooters.
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u/IndianaNetworkAdmin 7d ago
Depends on perspective - If you are actively controlling a character in first or third person, I think it belongs here. Aska, Soulmask, etc., absolutely have survival elements core to their mechanics/game loop that make them possibly qualify. Rimworld, Whiskerwood, and other survival-colony games that use a god's-eye view should not.
IMO -
Crafting, building, hunting/gathering, farming/fishing, temperature/weather - There needs to be some combination of these core mechanics from an individual viewpoint (First/third/etc) where mistakes are deadly. If you can survive no matter what, it's not really a survival game.
That's kind of the line I have on it. If the core mechanics around survival don't actually punish the player, then it's not a survival game.
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u/MyzMyz1995 7d ago
Why not. If it can help someone find a game they're interested in it should be allowed.
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u/FunkMunki 7d ago
I'd say that if someone is looking for a city builder or a colony sim there are specific subreddits for those as well. This is a survival gaming community so we still need to stick to survival games. If we allow every single game with hunger or thirst then this would quickly become a general gaming community.
That's my opinion, anyway.
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u/NorseHighlander 7d ago
I suppose the question at the heart of this is. When does a game stop being a survival with settlement management mechanics and start being a settlement management game with survival mechanics?
I'd say games where you are still piloting a particular character and trying to keep them alive is a survival even if building a settlement around them is a major mechanic. This includes games like Conan Exiles, Palworld, Medieval Dynasty, Enshrouded, and so on.
Settlement management games with survival elements, like say, Frostpunk, operate very differently from those kinds of games.
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u/phthalo-azure 7d ago
I think it depends on perspective. In Medieval Dynasty, you're playing in first person, you have to gather food and water and resources for yourself, and if you can't defend yourself, you die. Compare that to something like Manor Lords where you have to procure food and water for your people, but you're playing in a top-down environment where you can't die. In one you're the main character in a story, in the other, you're an interested observer.
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u/user_of_shoes 7d ago
I'd say any game with decent survival mechanics & first person view could be seen as a survival game. Games like Oxygen Not Included are played from third-person view, so there is no 'personal survival', which I feel is the core concept.
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u/Traditional-Bag-75 7d ago
No, let's keep strictly survival games. I'm pretty sure they have their own subs.
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u/zexur 7d ago
No. Says so on the tin of the subreddit: "This is a place to discuss the Survival genre of gaming". Leave the City Builders to the City Builder sub, and the Colony Sims to the Colony Sim sub. Isn't that what they're for? And if they don't exist, make those instead of further diluting this subreddit. Crossposts of course are always fine, because there will be crossover.
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u/Savingseanbean 7d ago
sure at this point, they are honestly closer to survival games than many often talked about games like enshrouded which isn't a survival game at all but people assume anything with crafting is a survival craft at this point
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u/ContributionLarge816 7d ago
I’d allow them with a separate flair and see how it goes. If they start drowning out everything else, the rule can always be revisited.
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u/Local_Brilliant9382 7d ago
I don't think camera perspective should be the deciding factor. If survival is the main challenge rather than just another resource to manage, it belongs here.
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u/Complex_Luck_2537 7d ago
I’d rather err on the side of allowing them. Genre lines are fuzzy, and a few borderline posts aren’t going to hurt the sub.
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u/Dense-Grass9886 7d ago
I’d allow them if survival is a meaningful part of the gameplay, not just a hunger bar tucked into a management sim. A tag or flair could keep the categories clear without excluding games that genuinely fit.
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u/Plastic-Motor1083 7d ago
I’d allow them for now and revisit the rule if they start crowding out the usual survival game posts. No need to draw a hard genre line before it’s actually causing a problem.
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u/PurpleQueasy5803 7d ago
I’d allow them as long as survival is a meaningful part of the gameplay, not just a food meter keeping the settlement running. A tag would probably settle most of the arguments since people can filter out the colony sims if they’re not interested.
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u/Sad_Tree_7817 7d ago
I don’t think camera perspective should be the deciding factor. If survival is the main focus of the game, it belongs here.
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u/glu3cifer 7d ago
Classic city builders like simcity, cities skylines, anno series I'd say probably not. Frostpunk style I would argue maybe. Rimworld, dwarf fortress etc certainly.
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u/NaturalPension5987 7d ago
I’d allow them as long as the post is actually focused on the survival side of the game. A dedicated flair would keep things easy to filter without drawing an arbitrary genre line.
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u/Puzzled_Dimension505 6d ago
I’d lean yes. If the discussion is actually about the survival systems, the camera perspective shouldn’t be the deciding factor.
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u/True-Confusion2841 6d ago
I don’t think perspective should be the deciding factor. The better test is whether survival pressures are central to the game’s decisions and failure states. If securing food, water, shelter, heat, or similar necessities drives most of the gameplay—and failing to do so can destroy the colony—then it belongs here, even without a single playable character. Frostpunk would qualify; Civilization generally wouldn’t.
A dedicated “Colony Sim/City Builder” flair seems like a good compromise. It keeps the definition focused on meaningful survival gameplay while letting people filter out management-focused games if they aren’t interested.
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u/Suitable-Present1187 6d ago
I don’t think camera perspective should be the deciding factor. If survival is the main challenge, it belongs here.
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u/Fun_Actuator_1049 6d ago
I’d rather err on the side of allowing them. Genre lines are fuzzy, and a flair would make them easy enough to filter.
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u/FarWorry5043 6d ago
Perspective feels like a pretty arbitrary cutoff. I’d judge it by how central survival is to the actual gameplay.
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u/Funkhip 6d ago edited 6d ago
Survival colony sim yes of course
City builder games belong to a very different genre, so no (and yeah a game like Frostpunk is a survival-oriented city builder, but still a city builder).
Generally speaking, colony-sim are much more focused on "survival" than most "classic" survival games.
However, I didn't understand how the perspective would have any bearing on whether or not they accept it.
On the other hand, why don't we ask the same question about action-adventure games that feature crafting and/or building but lack a real "survival" aspect (or have barely any) ? Or even games that are more in the "survival-horror" genre?
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u/loulo88 6d ago
I'd draw the line at whether there's a "you" who can actually die and has to handle the moment to moment stuff yourself. Medieval Dynasty, Conan, Valheim style games where you gather, eat, freeze and fight personally but also grow a settlement feel squarely survival to me. Forgebound is in that same hybrid space, you're out chopping wood and hunting yourself, then building houses and defending walls later, and nobody would call it a pure colony sim. Top-down management like RimWorld or Frostpunk I'd leave out, or maybe allow on a flair so people can filter.
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u/-Firestar- 5d ago edited 5d ago
I believe this budding new genre of "Colony sim-Survival blend" has a place here. Not only are you, the player having to eat, drink, sleep etc. But you're also having to take care of other's needs too. So yes, this type of game IS considered a survival game. Basically, if you can (while ignoring the colony sim part) have your character stand still and do nothing makes your character die, then yes. Survival. Bonus parts if the colonists also die or leave. :)
These games include:
Conan Exiles
Medieval Frontiers
Bellwright
The Alters
Windrose
Soulmask
Noble Legacy
Viking Frontiers
Medieval/Sengoku Dynasty
Land of the Vikings
Aska
If you do not have a player character, then no. It is solely a colony sim and does not count even if the pawns die.
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u/check-engine 4d ago
One of the biggest things I look for anymore in a survival game is quality, believable, NPCs that I can interact with, automate, take as followers, and breath life into what I’m creating.
While I get the sentiment of this post games like Soulmask are my target when I look for a survival game. I’m not sure if limiting the scope of an already niche experience best serves the community that visits this Reddit.
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u/Zakal74 7d ago
Personally I feel like games like Conan Exiles and Medieval Dynasty should count as survival games, because you are playing an individual that needs to survive in a fairly standard survival gameplay loop. Later on you can recruit other NPCs to help you out, but you can still personally die.
But something like Civilization or Timberborn doesn't feel like a survival game to me, even though you are growing and building things. There isn't a "you" to keep alive.