These posts all have the same issue, they completely don't understand how people lived. They see tv and the brady bunch all flying to hawaii and think everyone did that. I'm 51 and in my childhood eating out was rare, nobody flew anywhere on vacation and people drive the same cars for so long it's how you knew who was coming down the road. The only people I knew who "lived like rock stars" were single males who had no kids and had the boss job at the factory.
Yup, same here. Have boomer parents. Ate out like 6 times a year. Vacations were roadtrips to the lake or extended family's house. Hand-me-downs for clothes. They were super frugal with their money.
But my parents owned a house, they must have been loaded!
I mean…it is true that has been a certain amount of lifestyle creep. That being said, a big part of the problem is that all of the cheap things that used to exist have become quite a bit more expensive. I’m sure many people have noticed that the grocery bills have gone way up. If you’re into DIY and crafts, things like a lumber, yarn, and so on are both more expensive and often worse quality. You mentioned road trips, but how many people are going to shell out the money for incredibly overpriced hotels and 4-6 dollar gas? Heck, how many middle and lower middle class Americans could actually get time off approved for a proper road trip?
One thing that’s been noted for quite some time is how we’ve managed to bring down the prices of a lot of things that used to be luxuries, things like televisions, cell phones, and computers, but a lot of the things that really have been crucial to keeping people, middle-class, things like education, housing, and healthcare, have all exploded in both price and necessity. While it may be the case, that younger generations could always be thriftier, what do you do about the fact that the cost of housing or healthcare basics have become incredibly large amount of ones budget? And again, what do you do about the fact that all of the things that used to make DIY cheap and preferable have slowly become expensive? What do we do about the fact that children need to be attended at all times now, and parents are scared into thinking that anyone wrong decision will completely derail their child’s future? Again, all of these things that are important and necessary for upward mobility have all become incredibly expensive.
Anyway, there definitely are people who need to reassess and downgrade their standards for what they can afford. That will always be true. But that being said, it’s just feels like classic division to distract us from the true problems that exist.
I can assure you that lower middle class and truly poor people are struggling just the same as they always have been. They are doing all of the things that you guys are saying that “no one does these nowadays and that’s why they can’t afford anything“, except for they probably don’t own a house (and don’t qualify for the financing), they probably have a health insurance plan that they can’t afford to use unless there’s a true emergency, and they certainly aren’t putting away enough for retirement. But hey, I guess at least they have phones and TVs, so they can’t truly be poor, right? (And yes, I remember when Fox News thought that people couldn’t truly be poor if they had microwaves and refrigerators.)
Sure, jobs give them, but that doesn’t mean they actually have to let you take them. It’s a known problem that American are provided with PTO and sick days but get punished for using them. Is it every job? Of course not. But is it a lot more than it should be? Absolutely.
Also, one extremely important thing in other countries is that time off is actually time off. One of the reasons a lot of Americans are hesitant to take time off is because they know if they do, there is an expectation that basically they will make up all of the work that they missed during that time. It’s not an actual break, it’s really just a deferral of work. So you can either do a bunch of prep before hand or a bunch of make up work after. In many other countries with same leave policies, whatever work you’ve finished is what you finished and you won’t have to do anything until the break is over. Employers are also obligated to actually provide you with at least some uninterrupted period of time off, which is to say that you have to be allowed to take two weeks of vacation continuously, which is another thing that American managers may not allow, because then if people have to call out, You can always tell somebody that their PTO is no longer approved.
Anyway, American here. So yeah, I’ve been around the block a few times. I’m curious if you actually care about anything else, I said though, because this is really not something that was the majority of the point I was making.
that's a myth. they are legally required to let you use them, and they rarely fight it because they want you to use them. if you don't, they have to buyout the hours at your current rate of pay. it's cheaper to give you the time off because it costs them nothing but an employee not being there for a couple weeks. you're severely uninformed about our labor laws.
there's also no expectation of that. that's another myth and only shows your lack of knowledge. and a bit of arrogance thinking you know how our jobs work better than we do.
I'm also not buying that you're american if you're this jaded on pto/sick time. I've literally never worked a job that didn't remind me to use my vacation time so they wouldn't have to pay out 100 hours to me all at once.
> that's a myth. they are legally required to let you use them, and they rarely fight it because they want you to use them.
Yes. Employers are required to do a lot of things legally, but if you haven’t noticed, they get away with not doing a lot of those things. For example, wage theft a huge issue, but the time and cost for any individual employee to actually take action is actually quite difficult, and so these things often go unenforced. Companies constantly skirt regulations and decide that paying the fine is less of a problem than actually following the law. The current president, if you also haven’t noticed, does a lot of things that he legally can’t, but who’s going to stop him? All of this is to say that it really doesn’t matter what is on the books if there is no enforcement and there isn’t a lot of enforcement relative to other countries.
I also feel the need, and I suspect it will fall on deaf years, to note that I have explicitly said that this is not all employers, but it is a serious problem in the US labor market. I get that it makes your line of reasoning and argument a lot easier if you take my position to the extreme, but that’s not what I’ve actually said. And again, this wasn’t even really the main point of my entire comment, and you don’t seem very interested in actually discussing any of the other things that I wrote. as such, this kind of just feels like a bad faith nitpick that you want to… Well, I’m not entirely sure to be honest.
> if you don't, they have to buyout the hours at your current rate of pay. it's cheaper to give you the time off because it costs them nothing but an employee not being there for a couple weeks.
This is exactly why companies are introducing “unlimited PTO“. Of course it’s not truly unlimited and many companies Also also find that people are more conservative in taking PTO that is unlimited versus allocated (that is to say if you give people 20 days, they will take 20 days, versus if you don’t tell them how many they can take, they will guess and, not want to “overindulge”). But this has been a growing trend at a lot of companies, because they know that they don’t have to pay anything out if you don’t ever accrue PTO. Meanwhile, you can’t actually take PTO whenever you would like; it still has to be approved and is not guaranteed
> you're severely uninformed about our labor laws.
> there's also no expectation of that. that's another myth and only shows your lack of knowledge. and a bit of arrogance thinking you know how our jobs work better than we do.
Ad hominems I see. Everything’s a myth and I’m just uninformed and too arrogant and too stupid. OK, whatever. I don’t actually care what you think. You haven’t cited a single source and most of your arguments fall on anecdotes and “trust me, bro“.
> I'm also not buying that you're american if you're this jaded on pto/sick time. I've literally never worked a job that didn't remind me to use my vacation time so they wouldn't have to pay out 100 hours to me all at once.
For one, the amount that you post and comment, honestly, you’re either retired or you’re not an American and potentially just a troll. I’m going to assume the former, but there is of course a delicious irony, and you trying to point the finger when you were doing a lot of things that look awful a lot like something that non-American trolls do.
Anyway, we regard this, whether or not you were actually retired, it does seem like perhaps you are older and you are largely going off of your experiences. And there’s nothing wrong with that per se, but if you think that your experience is the only experience, well that’s kind of a problem. I know that psychologically, we all kind of exist in the world that we came of Asian, but things have seriously changed even in the past decade. If you’ve had a great experience, I’m honestly happy for you. But if you can’t listen to other peoples problems and just write them off, then, honestly, You are the problem.
With that, I think I’ve dedicated more time than frankly this whole interactions deserves. So I think we’re done here.
back when I needed real jobs, I never worked a single one that didn't. I've never met anyone that didn't. I've never interviewed for one that didn't. so if some don't, here's a novel idea, don't fucking work there. ffs. 🤦🏻♂️
My real world experience is 90% of jobs provide no tangible benefits. I'm not whining. I'm pointing out how the world actually is for those who aren't completely out of touch.
Ah so then that is a “yes” to my comment only counting jobs with benefits as “real” jobs.
Well, in that case and definition all jobs offer benefits lol. Let’s just ignore all the amazon and Walmart employees on food stamps and using the ER as their only healthcare.
Just move the goal posts!! It all works in my favor if I just keep shifting the goal posts.
also, their choice to work shitty jobs. even in bullshit upstate ny employers are desperate for a workforce. gotta pass a drug test and maintain a schedule tho. doordash doesn't care tho, do, yeah, I can see why they do that. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/big-williestyle 18h ago edited 18h ago
These posts all have the same issue, they completely don't understand how people lived. They see tv and the brady bunch all flying to hawaii and think everyone did that. I'm 51 and in my childhood eating out was rare, nobody flew anywhere on vacation and people drive the same cars for so long it's how you knew who was coming down the road. The only people I knew who "lived like rock stars" were single males who had no kids and had the boss job at the factory.