I'll never forget when I sat down with my parents and we talked housing prices. They said "why aren't you building something new if the old buildings are so expensive?"
I had to break it to them that a plot of land is not $10k, it's $200-300k. Then add the actual cost of housing construction and you're easily looking at a MINIMUM of $500k for any new construction
They told me they thought it'd be closer to $100k even after they adjusted for inflation
One of my dad's biggest regrets is that he didn't buy more land. He (we) had an opportunity where a neighbor was fixing to bail and went around offering all the neighbors a chance at parcels of land before put it on the open market.
At the time we were completely debt free, outside of tax liability, and despite the incredibly generous offer, my dad primarily, just couldn't get on board with putting us into debt. Mom entertained the idea a bit more than him, it didn't happen.
And now he's left with regret. None of us are mad at him, he's the only one mad at himself.
What was the offer? 500 acres at only $500 a pop. That was just what he was willing tk let us have upfront. If anyone else passed, he'd have been willing to lat any of us have a go at it.
This was forested, appalachian, new england land. Prime real estate to preserve. But 250k was a heck of a lot debt to end up in, practically overnight, so it's not his fault for passing on the deal. They'd busted their humps ensuring they were debt free for as long as they had been, and as much better off we'd be with the land, they're still debt free today, so it worked out in the end imo.
my dad bought 45 acres "in my name" when I was in middle school and sold it off right before I got married, lol. Now we're dealing with my family's farm and guess what, their generation wrote a deal to sell it off for huge profit (for them).
If it's forested land then most of it should require pretty much zero maintenance at all, other than whatever immediately surrounds any roads or buildings.
You'd be surprised. People love to illegally hunt, drink, and snowmobile on private land. It's not like a full time job, but there's a reason people end up selling land that they're physically far away from.
Mostly tax liability in this case. It was forested and would have remained forested and had no lines or roads through it. At most we'd have kept up with posted signs but that would have been it.
You need to ensure people aren't coming on it illegally to dump, destroy, "camp" until they can try to claim it as their own, poach, steal lumber, or tear up the place with dirt bikes and four wheelers.
None of this story makes sense. I don't think you got the full picture.
You generally can't go into debt buying land. Banks don't generally lend money for land unless you're imminently building on it.
Land is a notoriously mediocre to bad investment. Trace the price of Manhattan real estate to the S&P 500 and tell me where you'd rather put your money.
My friend, you've never heard of a home equity loan? I also never said it was about investment. It was about having the land secured as property. If it was just about raw property value my parents wouldn't be living in a place where a neighbor could just offer up entire parcels to his neighbors.
In my New England state land that was $500 an acre in 2000 was $5k an acre in 2013 (when I bought some) and is now going for $20-30k an acre. Depends on where, obviously, but the entire of the northeast is ground zero for the housing crisis right now.
Home equity loans became available sometime after 1986 and it sounds like the opportunity to buy was earlier than that. Getting a second mortgage on your house was generally a bad idea too
Born in 85 here lol. This was around 1995-2000, forget the specific year. It also would have been a first mortgage since my dad had the property paid off before he even met my mom.
It isn't really? But where we're at and where they live isn't really either buzzword as a "proper" location, so i figured the easiest route was use both and hopefully they'll figure out he's talking about where they meet.
The mountains themselves do reach from maine down the alabama, but technically "Appalachia" ends before it becomes new england.
Geography is hard lol. Especially when talking in broad terms lol.
my parents were well off enough that they had their house paid off by the time i was 3. and then they just saved / spent money. never once thought of buying a second property or land.
they also had a $250k house at a time when a house on a lake in our city was $350k. to then that $100k was waaay too much money for them. meanwhile their house is worth $900k now and the waterfront houses are all over $2M.
Heh. Thanks to dumb luck and being in the right place at the right time my dad snagged our entire property for only 65k, paid for it while he was still living at home, and then when he met and married my mom they rented a house in a nearby town and spent the first year of their time together taking the uninhabitable 1900s farmhouse and restoring it.
The value hasn't skyrocketed, but being debt free and staying debt free over as long of a time as they have, has put them in a much better position than many.
My parents purchased the house I grew up in for $20,000 in 1978.
The house was located in a rural area, and it was so poorly constructed that if my parents weren't such hillbillies they would have immediately torn it down and completely rebuilt it from the ground up, but still. One house, $20,000. On 2 acres of land, no less. My dad's monthly mortgage payment was like $200.
Dad bought a house in 1972 for $17k. Lived in it, paid it off, then let it deteriorate around him. He considered himself a handy man but wouldn't seek help if he couldn't do it himself. Roof leaked, never repaired it. Maple tree roots got under the attached garage and destroyed it. He bought a new house and paid to have that one demolished. That house would have been a perfect starter home for me or my siblings. It could have been worth a little under 200k in 2010. Now, it's an empty lot he sold for 39k. Oh, he's also a hoarder and doing the same thing to his current house. Letting it fall apart around him. I understand it's his to do what he wants with it and I'm not owed anything from inheritance, but its like watching him burn money in front of me for fun before he dies.
My dad was pretty handy too, and to his credit he rebuilt his house over the years and made other significant improvements to the property, to the point where between that and general price inflation it would probably appraise today for something like $300,000.
Which would have been a nice little family asset, except that about a year ago he decided to sell it for about $100,000. When I learned that he had been discussing this sale (these discussions having gone on for at least a couple of years), I worried that dad was about to be taken advantage of and reached out through professional connections to try to have an independent lawyer assist with it, but he thought that was too much of a hassle and preferred to handle everything himself.
This all happened about 10 years after he and mom moved out of that house and into a different one that he bought when he was in his mid-70s and chose to finance via a 30-year mortgage. Which means that -- unless dad stays alive and competent well past 100 -- I will need to take over paying my elderly mother's mortgage at some point in the next 20ish years, and most likely within the next 5-10 years or so.
But the real punchline to this story is that the person who received such a massively discounted house is the family member who serially molested me throughout a significant chunk of my childhood.
Jesus, that's just awful. I'm sorry. We grow up thinking our parents are smart and know everything and then realize they are just as imperfect as anybody else. They still view us as just kids and refuse to listen.
I found a deed in my Mother's possessions in her grandfather's name dated 1898. It was written on parchment paper in flowery script, $1820 for 3 acres of land and "whatever structures may be upon it" in eastern PA. In the same envelope was a receipt that it was paid off in less than two years.
As mortgage rates have lowered and financial times have dictated, I've refinanced my 30 year mortgage so many times, I still have 15 years left 30 years into it. I can pay it off, but with that sub 3% interest rate (now), my money has better things to do.
My parents purchased the house I mostly grew up in for $65K in 1983.
Its most recent assessed value (which is well below the actual market value) is $1,380,000. The house itself is valued at $115,000. The land is the other $1,265,000.
My parents bought my childhood home for $180k in 1993. That was pretty pricey back then. They sold it for $420k in 2020 and its worth $700k now.
My dad told me when my sister and I were growing up, my mom didnt work. They lived only off my dad's salary while she raised my me and my sister. Once we turned about 10 or so, she got back into the workforce.
Here's the kicker. My dads salary at the time was equivalent to $70k per year today. $70k. To pay a mortgage, property taxes and insurance on a 4 bed, 2.5 bath house with a pool in south Florida in a desirable area while also paying for not one but two children. And my sister got cancer when she was 3 so they were paying for constant medical bills, co pays, surgeries etc. Yes, they had insurance through my dads job and it was really good but they still had plenty of out of pocket expenses from it.
So a full sized house with an in ground pool, 2 kids, 2 cars and cancer bills off a single $70k salary. My wife and I both make $60k per year and can still only afford to rent, can only afford one modern car with a payment, cant even humor the expense of a child and still have to budget for groceries. Every generation was supposed to have more opportunity than their parents. I want a fucking refund.
It was 100k like 20 years ago in low COL areas. Like Texas suburbs. Even then it wasn't that affordable because min wage was like $6/hr and decent jobs brought in like 40k/yr. Now houses are 500k+ in those same areas with median salary of 80k.
That's based on median income fwiw, and that 100k was not like in city but new developments, and again in a really low COL area so it's kind of the extreme end of affordable. But also knew someone in Bakersfield around that same time that their houe was worth half a mil. I can definitely say that 80k house wouldn't have been affordable to me until my late 20s at earliest because median income doesn't really capture the first time homebuyer demographics well, it was probably closer too 15-20k then.
I think its fair to compare median to get a sense or the eras. But if anything its worse for first time home buyers since there's been a dearth of small home building for years. Average home size has increased significantly over time, starter homes just haven't been built much since the 80s so there's been a compression that brought the low end up closer to median.
There's just a ton of factors but it wasn't great then (when I became an adult early 00s) and it's gotten so much worse since, so it might have not been that easy for boomers but it's definitely worse now than when they bought their homes.
I had to sit them down and show my parents that while when they were my age there was a short period where interest was around 20%, the cost of a home has skyrocketed so much since then that even at the current 5ish% my interest alone would be higher than their entire mortgage payment back then.
Yeah, when I talked to my parents about buying their house in the 80s they were like "but we paid something like 12-15%." Sure, but that was on a house that was only 80k. Now people are paying 5-8% on 300k+.
Sure, except over the lifetime of a 25-30 year mortgage loan inflation helps them. Locking in at a $500 (or whatever it was) monthly payment probably sucked in the 80s, but was practically pocket change in 2010 dollars. Whereas people today are paying $2,000+ a month for their loans. That's going to suck for 25 years.
Housing prices have gone up. Wages have not increased at the same rate. So if their mortgage was 25% of their monthly income back then, ours today are 50%+
Average mortgage payments in the 80s were $600-$900, not $500. Again, a $600 mortgage payment in 1980 with inflation would be over $2400 today.
Average mortgage payment in 2025 was right about $2000.
Why do you think inflation on a 30 year mortgage today won't have the same effect as inflation on a 30 year mortgage back then?
Also, median family income according to the Census Bureau was $21000/year in 1980, or $1750 per month. A $600 mortgage payment was 34% of a $1750 monthly income.
Median household income in 2025 was $87460/year or $7288/month. The average $2000 mortgage payment was 27.4% of a $7288 monthly income.
So to be clear, median mortgage payments in 1980 were higher as a proportion of median income than they are today.
one time during the first major recession of our millennial doom, my mom was like, "i don't understand, i put myself and your father through college on a summer job making..."
we didn't even get to the math. she made more in number of dollars unadjusted for inflation in 1974 than i was in 2009. she was earning like $17/hour or something crazy.
High interests is actually great for the average consumer. We should want to own things and pay as much as possible with cash. Higher interests allow us to do that since it pushes consumer prices down
Low interest rates just grinds the economy to a halt as soon as it's raised a little bit
And you can't qualify for loans like FHA on land - so even if you did want to "build your own tiny house cheaply" or something like that, the barrier is actually harder to get pure land than it is to even buy prebuilt a house.
Theres a show called "a place in the sun" where they were shopping properties in Spain during the 2000s and 2010s and its literally like "here's this beautiful two story house for 150k euros" and they're like "hmm it's a bit out of my budget, do you have anything more affordable"
These mfs really had realistic expectations of owning a SECOND PROPERTY in Spain and still thought their lives were hard
I hear older people comment how young people today seem to care a lot about their properties. Yards are more well kept and everything looks cleaner. My theory is that properties are so expensive now that everyone does whatever they can to take care of it
‘We’re custom building a four story mansion with the kind of glass panels used in skyscrapers custom manufactured and imported for us. Our budget is £220,000, I may have to work weekends for a little extra money’
I mean, it was so small I had to get a variance to build on it, next to an alley, and full of garbage, in a small town in Indiana, but it was $10k! Several years ago..!
Yeah I just don't see the point. I'll just be an apartment dweller all life, don't care. A house is not freedom when there's a gazillion regulations against what you can actually do with it
They're just wilfully ignorant and refuse to take any blame for 50 years of legislation amd economic policy that got use here.
My grandma was talking about how hard she worked for no pay for their first mortgage. Adjusted for inflation she had like an 850/month payment on a 20/hour salary. Sure it was a farmhouse, 1 bed. They don't even MAKE houses like that anymore, so there's no "starter homes" like there were.
And nevermind that the job was working in the store my grandparents fucking BOUGHT. She was a damn operating expense getting paid to manage an asset.
And no hate, that stuff allowed them to provide for their family and me down the line. But still just the inability or unwillingness to understand the current situation is not due to anyone being lazy.
Also for all new home builds (any home build project really), I feel like people really need to understand their budgets and then when they establish it, go 10-20% lower bc 95% of the time you’re gonna go over your budget by at least 10%
Unless you DIY, ppl don’t realize how expensive contractors are- and how busy they are! Even for a simple shower remodel- replacing just the tile.
It’s one thing to finally find one within budget/you like. It’s finding the time for them to do it. If they’re really good, they don’t want to waste time on small projects so will upcharge a lot to make it worth it to them
Sorry, I could go on but I feel like I’ve ranted enough 😅
Where are you getting these numbers? My house that I bought in 2016 is only worth 300k. Do you live in San Diego, new York, or LA? Because otherwise, those prices are ridiculous.
I don't believe you. Why would you use US dollars to describe your situation? Why would you respond to this post that is clearly US inspired? Why are you responding in English?
Yes, most people here are American, and you are responding to a post about life in America, using your personal experience that is not in America, yet describing it yours is an American experience. Thank you for clarifying how uninformed and fucking stupid your take is 🤣
The fact that your dumb ass post, based on non American numbers, got so many upvotes makes me either want to get into sales or move to Sweden though. JFC people are dumb. You included
Am I not allowed to talk about non American issues? This is a global platform and many of the economic issues our generation is facing is in fact global, or at least western
Our "golden years" came a little bit later than for the US but otherwise it's been pretty much the same neoliberal trajectory
I just had a house built in 2020, finished basement, 3 bedrooms on the main floor, 2 on the bottom, 3 bathroom, fully applianced, 2 car attached garage on the outskirts of town for $350k.
Our house went up 50% in value since we bought in 2018. It's insane, nice that it appreciated but also everything else we would buy did too, so we just have higher property tax.
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u/Ok-Primary2176 21h ago
I'll never forget when I sat down with my parents and we talked housing prices. They said "why aren't you building something new if the old buildings are so expensive?"
I had to break it to them that a plot of land is not $10k, it's $200-300k. Then add the actual cost of housing construction and you're easily looking at a MINIMUM of $500k for any new construction
They told me they thought it'd be closer to $100k even after they adjusted for inflation