r/ShenComix • u/YoungShitheel • 8d ago

To those Transvestigating Shen

https://youtube.com/shorts/ob1ZwUI-Zqk?si=PzgUkN9tOB8AGDJn

This has probably been done to death, but I feel like this video has a pretty good message in relation to what I've been seeing in some of this sub.

That being;

I don't think it's our place to care about whether or not Shen is cis, a repressing trans person, or some secret third option.

I'm sure those telling him to stop "repping" aren't doing it out of genuine malice. They probably just don't want someone to go through what they must have on their way to finding their true selves.

Yet my point still stands.

Whatever he is, it's HIS BUSINESS. Leave mothafuckas alone.

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u/Aethelrede 7d ago

I stand by my statement.  Trying to out someone is bad no matter what the reason.

After all, a rumor that someone is trans when they aren't is harmful regardless of why the rumor was started.  All of the people talking about how Shen must be trans are no different from people who claim that Jamie Lee Curtis is trans.  Intent does not justify it!

Unless the person is a noted and public transphobe, in which case it's totally justified.  But Shen is not a transphobe.

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u/Trick_Yard_4609 7d ago

you are not listening to what i'm saying. both things are bad. but transvestigation is a specific conspiracy mindset, not just a portmanteau of the words "trans" and "investigation". it very straightforwardly not what people do with shen. also, you're less principled than i am! not only do you make an exception on this stuff if it's someone you don't like, but you're specifically doing it so you can use calling someone trans as an insult? gee, thanks, whatever would we do without your unswerving allyship 🙄

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u/Aethelrede 7d ago

You are not listening. I understand the distinction you are making, I simply do not agree with you.  The reasons for outing someone (correctly or not) are irrelevant (except in a very special case, which I don't think has ever happened.  There have been lots of homophobic gay men, though, and that shit needs to be called out.)

And identifying someone as trans when they do not identify as such is not an insult, it's fucking harmful!

Calling me transphobic for insisting that people do not have to conform to your definition of gender is irony and hypocrisy of the highest order.

It's ironic, you have adopted the tactics of the TERFs and use them against GNC men and enbies.  I would pity you, if you weren't trying to hurt people.

Go on, call me a transphobe for denying the gender binary.  It's what your group does.

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u/Trick_Yard_4609 7d ago

i'm not saying it's ok to say these things about shen, you illiterate!

-> "i agree that public speculation is inappropriate" <-

i said that in my first comment! right there! at the top! you ignorant boob! and you literally said "Unless the person is a noted and public transphobe, in which case it's totally justified." so you ARE fine with doing it in some cases! i'm actually not, in any circumstances, because i think calling a transphobe trans to piss them off is using an accusation of being trans as an insult, and that is transphobic and fucked up! so i'm more committed to your alleged principles than you are!

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u/Aethelrede 7d ago

Interesting how you keep focusing on the side issue and not the main point.

I ask again, is it ever okay to treat a GNC man as a trans women?  If not, then what are you arguing about? Seriously,  that's the issue at hand, that people are saying that Shen is actually a trans woman in denial.  I believe this is bad.  If you also believe it to be bad, then we are in agreement.

As to the other point, if, for example, I found out that JK Rowling is actually a trans woman, you can be damn sure I'd be screaming that to the hills. Just as I have no problem with outing gay men who advocate against gay rights.  There is nothing more despicable than a hypocrite and traitor.

But eh, if you would not out JKR, in this purely hypothetical situation, well, that's between you and your conscience.  I would judge the sin of outing someone to be less than the sin of letting that person continue funding the eliminationist transphobia, personally.  Of course, as I said, I haven't heard of any trans women who are stupid enough to be transphobic.  There are trans women stupid enough to be bigoted against GNC men, though.

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u/Trick_Yard_4609 7d ago

you did not ask about whether it was ok to call a GNC cis man a trans woman before. you are apparently as incapable of reading your own comments as you are mine. but since you ask, no, obviously it's inappropriate if a person has told you who they are, for you to then unilaterally override that. i literally did not once say otherwise.

as for the JKR trans woman thing, i think we're talking at crossed purposes. i am saying, "JKR is a cis woman, calling her trans or accusing her of being a secret trans woman is transphobic, because it assumes that being trans is more of an insult than her materially contributing to the harm and deaths of trans people". you are saying "if i found out JKR was a post-transition trans woman, i'd out her", which is a completely different thing. also a really weird hypothetical to fantasise about, frankly, that borders on what transvestigation actually is.

also, there are plenty of trans women who are transphobic. women can do anything. including bad things.

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u/Aethelrede 7d ago

You said, "it's inappropriate if a person has told you who they are, for you to then unilaterally override that. i literally did not once say otherwise."

Indeed you didn't say otherwise.  That's the problem.

You see, it is irrelevant whether a person has "told you who they are", you shouldn't assign a gender to them.  You should never assign a gender to anyone, ever.  But according to your own words, it's only inappropriate if they have told you who they are.  Since you put that qualifier on there, it must mean that it is appropriate to assign a gender to someone as long as they haven't told you their gender.

Which is hilarious, because that's exactly what I've been accusing you of all along.

Whether you actually mean what you wrote, didn't understand what you wrote, or revealed yourself as a troll by accident, I can't say, and it doesn't matter.  The fact that you don't even realize you just owned yourself makes it even funnier.

Your comments about JKR are incoherent, I have no idea why you brought up pre-op vs post-op, that's utterly irrelevant.

Anyway, your English is so bad I can't actually tell if you are a troll or not, but you made me laugh, so I'll grade you a "D" class troll.  If you want to get better, you need to write more coherently. And if you aren't a troll, you have my pity.

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u/Trick_Yard_4609 7d ago

actually if someone refuses to refer to me as a woman until i perform a humiliating ritual announcing how i "identify" they can jump up their own ass and die. peep the tits, hair, makeup, skirt, and take a shot in the dark, champ. that's how all normal human interaction works. if i present feminine but don't want people to make a feminine assumption of me, that's what a pronoun pin is for. you can in fact socially make an assumption about a person's gender in most cases. if you're unsure, ask. if you're corrected, respect it. but for me personally, the fact that i'm a woman is unmediated and unconditional on how i announce myself entering a room.

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u/Aethelrede 7d ago

Holy shit, you just endorsed the gender binary!  Openly!  And shat all over trans women who don't pass as well as they'd like.  If I see a person wearing a dress and having significant facial hair, should I assume they are male or female?  If I see an androgynous, smooth shaven person without obvious breasts wearing suit, should I assume they are male or female?  Tell me, oh arbiter of what is male and what is female!  Actually, don't, because I'll let them tell me their gender. 

If you aren't trans, you are transphobic. If you are trans, you're transphobic and self-hating.

Damn, an even more impressive self-own, I wouldn't have thought it was possible.

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u/Trick_Yard_4609 7d ago

i don't "endorse the gender binary" you dunce, i just happen to personally be a binary trans woman. nonbinary people are chill, i really do not care. also, i know literacy is a continuing struggle for you, but do me a favour and reread the bit where i said "if you're not sure, ask".