I wanted to provide an alternative perspective to the vocal anti-dog crowd in this forum by showing just how poorly the city of Seattle accommodates the canine population. All data here is sourced from city websites.
Seattle has 489 Parks covering 6441 Acres. Only 15 of those parks have devoted off-leash space covering a paltry 30.71 acres. That means 3% of all parks and 0.47% of park acreage are devoted to off-leash areas. In many parts of the city this means that a dog owner would be required to drive upwards of 20 minutes to reach an overcrowded dog park. Overcrowding can lead to dog fights which further deters use of these limited spaces; only 6 of these off-leash areas are larger than 1 acre in size.
To compare, let’s look to our neighbors to the north in Vancouver. The City of Vancouver has a much smaller park system than Seattle with just 110 parks/natural areas covering only 1600 acres of park land. So you’d think they’d be even less able to provide off-leash space to their residents. However, the opposite is true. Vancouver offers 41 off-leash areas (37% of all parks have an off-leash area) covering 153.7 acres (9.6% of park space devoted to off-leash acreage).
You can see that Vancouver has made it much easier for dog owning residents to stay compliant with leash laws by providing ample space that is more accessible by foot to its residents. A side benefit to having greater off-leash area coverage is the reduction in car trips for travel to dog parks.
Seattle Parks (and King County at large) is simply letting down all residents by failing to expand off-leash access as this lack of access results in residents breaking the law and using other open spaces as off-leash areas. If we want to solve this issue we need to pressure the city to offer a park system that works for ALL users.
We definitely need more dog parks, but people still need to leash their dogs in other spots.
I live next to a great unleashed dog park. I counted 15 dogs off leash in the leashed part of the park the other day. There is another park a few blocks away where people let dogs run unleashed through the soccer field all the time. As an owner of two small dogs that have been attacked multiple times by off leash dogs, I would appreciate if leash laws were followed.
It sucks that the only way to get people to be responsible and keep their dogs on leashes is to just call the city until someone shows up and starts ticketing. I also have a small (and reactive) dog and will aggressively yell when people let their dogs charge us off leash. Their owners get the idea when I start yelling BACK like I mean business, but it really sucks to have to constantly be scanning for somebody's off-leash dog at every park.
I agree and also have a reactive dog. We need more off leash space that is safe for dogs to help prevent this. And I yell at them too. Eff the people who don’t have the sense to keep their dogs away from the ones who are leashed.
Ha - I live around there too and see this all the time. When I used to walk my leashed dog around Highland Park, there were often times an unleashed dog would start coming up to us, with the owner loudly proclaiming "Don't worry, my dog is friendly," and I always reply "Mine is not...."
Thankfully my dog was small enough to where I could pick him up.
Not only do we need more dog parks, we need more fenced dog parks. My dog isn’t an off-leash dog. She deserves a place to run and play where she is safe.
I believe OP is in agreement with you in theory. The issue is about practicality vs rule-following. The rule following doesn't happen because the existing off-leash areas aren't practical for dog owners. The rule is asinine when so little space is set aside for the enormous number of dogs in the city. You can complain about the individuals all you want, but if the city invested properly in greatly expanding dog areas, this would be significantly less of an issue. It's the government's job to respond to the needs of its populace, and that can be met by just authoritarianism (enforcement of them), by expanding resources, or a combination.
There is a big off leash area in the park concept for the expanded Bitter Lake Reservoir park. Probably won’t get built though, along with most of the rest of the park amenities due to lack of parks funding.
Not sure about dog numbers, although funding sources for K-12 students and dog parks are wildly different/not managed by the same gov entity (schools are State funded, dog park are City funded). However if you want to advocate for Seattle dog residents you should write your elected officials (City Council and the Mayor) and tell them you want this park plan funded. The plan appears to be there, just not the funds.
I do think there's a little bit of utility to addressing the causal nature.
Similar to how providing trash cans at city parks reduces littering. Yes, as individuals littering is bad, but if you really are invested in reducing litter on a municipal scale, providing trash cans and making it easy to not litter is one of the biggest steps you can make.
Personally I'd prefer to put our resources into building more human-friendly parts of the city than more places for dogs to shit. If you want a dog in the city and can't deal with leashing them, go live in the suburbs.
I agree with your suggestion, but you could have phrased it more politely. I don't understand apartment dwellers who adopt large dogs that need off-leash exercise and complain when people are not friendly to their large dogs running amok. ESPECIALLY pricey pedigreed dogs that are just lifestyle statements.
Yes, it's great if you adopted a rescue, but you're going to need to walk them on a leash and pick up their poop, or find an off-leash park that exists. Humans need all the recreational and residential space available in Seattle right now.
Small dogs also need adoption and there are always cats. 😄
Sorry for my tone but the number of dog owners who break the law daily and make it hard for my 2-year old (who is really scared of random off-leash dogs) to play in the only reasonably-accessible outdoor public space within a mile and a half of our home kinda has me pissed off!
Been there. My wife would come home crying because of the number of times off leash dogs ran up to her with our toddler who was learning how to walk. If she said something she got yelled at. It was so hostile and made our experience way worse than it should have been.
As a parent whose youngest is about to reach double digits, I can’t imagine having a baby, toddler, smaller child with all of the entitled unsafe ones around causing parenting to be even more stressful than it is without all that extra dangerous level on top! I know we changed our habits with where we go starting 3-4 years ago when dogs seemingly had more rights than humand.
My cat loves to walk two different parks in my town. If my cat can hang in a park on a leash, your dog sure can. I've asked people to leash their dogs before and even after telling them I have a cat with me, they have refused. I'm so tired of the entitlement and disrespect. Not to mention my cat could take on any dog and win.
I think your take on big dogs in apartments is a thoughtful way to think about the well being of dogs.
However, I think potential dog owners need to take the extra step of understanding the neighborhood they live in and proximity to dog amenities before getting a dog if they aren't willing to travel if there aren't any near them.
To get a dog while living in a non-dog-friendly neighborhood and then demand that humans give up their ever-shrinking spaces for new dog spaces strikes me as extremely thoughtless, selfish, entitled, and unfair to the dogs.
I live in an apartment 2 B / 1 B and it's nice sized, BUT, I would not want to have a dog here not because I could not take care of it, overall, but because I know that we don't have our own backyard to have them run around in during the day and also because I have some asshat neighbors who would make it more hellish than they already do for other things. But, I know this and so I don't get a dog for now. If I move into a house with a yard or something that is more conducive I will consider dog options, then.
No, but that does make sense. It probably depends on location. My brother used to accompany flights of chihuahuas from San Francisco to NYC lol. Apartment dwellers snapped them up every time. I don't know why there were so many extra chihuahuas in SF!
Yeah, I think the number of people in the “anti-dog” crowd is so much smaller than you think. I’m not anti-dog. I love them, I grew up with them, makes my day to see exceptionally fluffy ones.
We should absolutely fight for more dog spaces where they can run around and have fun. I don’t think anyone (except maybe the fuckers in Laurelhurst) would argue against that point.
If outside and not in a designated off-leash location, dogs should always be leashed. Your dog may be super friendly and would never hurt a fly, but your dog still has the potential to hurt someone. You can’t know how your dog will react to every situation. And your unleashed, friendly dog, may approach a leashed, reactive dog thinking that they’ll make a new friend. If the reactive dog attacks and hurts yours, it’ll be no one’s fault but yours.
It's not just other dogs. Off leash dogs tend to approach other humans some of whom don't like dogs. My wife is terrified of them. We don't go to off leash parks or anywhere near them. It's infuriating to see off leash dogs approaching her even in places where that's not allowed.
Absolutely agree with you. I had said in another post that, while I love dogs, an unleashed dog is genuinely scary to me if they approach me. I don't know the dog, I don't know if it is coming to get pets or coming to bite me.
No one should be subjected to that, which is why leash laws exist.
Yeah, if I see an offleash dog that is not someone I know with them I assume, they are a very bad aggressive dog, because you know what? I don't know they are not. And maybe they see my ugly mug and think "this guy is bad" maybe hyperbole, but I am NOT personally taking that chance.
This. Especially, if your dog is a rescue, you probably have no idea if it's reactive to someone with a mobility aid like a cane (which many dogs view as a threat) or if they will bite at the wheels of a wheelchair, etc., unless you're actually around those on a regular basis
i train for backpacking in the arboretum. 90% of offleash dogs lose their everloving minds over hiking poles and a big backpack. ZERO times have i ever witnessed a dog successfully verbally recalled on the first few tries once it has an interest in me. i can only imagine most of this 90% would also lose their everloving minds over mobility aids or baby carriers. really, these owners have been lucky it's only me telling them off, they're lucky they haven't ended up threatening or injuring someone more vulnerable with a similar silhouette.
This is SUCH a big issue, I literally have to plan my routes to avoid passing any parks because of how frequently off leash dogs get freaked out by my wheelchair and approach me aggressively! It’s not even just rescues, people don’t think to expose their dogs to wheelchairs or other mobility aids! And then when a dog makes it to adulthood without seeing one out and about it scares them.
Thank you for thinking of leash reactive rescue mutts with unknown traumatic histories! My pit mix spent her early life roaming the streets and has seen things. She will smother you with love unless you are running, following us, or riding a bike. She does not tolerate dogs approaching us. I am constantly vigilant and never walk her in an area where we would be unable to avoid unpleasant interactions. She is gradually improving and always fully under my control.
People need to get a clue it's not all about them.
I think most folks aren't "anti-dog" but rather anti shitty dog owners.
Most folks like dogs but dont want ANY dog running at them in areas that aren't designated "off leash"
Folks dont want dog shit in bags or out just left lying about.
Dogs (legitimate service dogs being the exception) do not belong in food establishments.
If dog owners followed the leash laws and were good stewards I think folks would appear less anti-dog.
I’ve owned dogs my entire life - large, active dogs - and they really don’t need constant off-leash dog park exercise. Nice, long, on leash walks are plenty for most breeds.
People need to do their research and get the right dog for their lifestyle. If you live in an apartment, aren’t a jogger, and live far from a dog park, then don’t get a border collie or a vizsla.
Yep. I don't have a dog because I don't have time or the space to give them what they need. If you want a dog but aren't willing to drive 20 minutes to a dog park so they can safely play off leash then you shouldn't be get a dog. Simple as that. You as the owner are responsible for the dog's safety and the safety of those around your dog.
But wait, I am anti "friendly" off-leash dog not listing to it's owner and running all over the children's play area and bowling over our small child. And you know what, I wouldn't be surprised if kids that have a rational fear of dogs because of this end up growing up with a little anti dog in 'em, right.
To be fair, that’s kind of irrelevant. Point is, there are rules (for good reason) about where one can have their dogs off-leash. And not following those rules is shitty behavior.
As a Vet Tech who has worked ER for over 11 years, I can tell you that dog parks are problematic.
The amount of dog bite wounds or dog attacks (some fatal) alone is staggering. Then you have the unvaccinated running around who get Parvo. Not just puppies, but older dogs too.
Oh and Giardia is pretty rampant in those puddles.
I highly suggest Sniffspot instead. Book a spot for you and a friend if your dog wants to play, or start a group that meets up of dogs that get along and you trust. Or go alone and let your dog run free!
My mom got a big dog and I warned her not to take her to a dog park, but she didn't listen. This is in a much smaller city and has plenty of off leash dog parks that are easily accessible, so of course she took her "friendly" dog to them. Now the dog is dog aggressive because of all the times she has come in contact with off leash dogs (because having these spaces doesn't stop this behavior at all) being aggressive in non dog park spaces, and bad experiences in the dog park. I've seen this exact scenario play out many times where someone HAD a well socialized dog until they started taking them to the dog park too many times. It only takes one bad experience for your dog to turn aggressive and take years of training to undo, and you have no way of knowing what other dogs are there. Frankly I think dog parks are a trap and I tell people who have dogs to never go there unless it's empty. Just take your high excercise breed on a run.
Also, get a 50 ft leash for $30 and let your dog run if you want to play fetch. Congrats, now it's on leash, just make sure your dog has good recall. This just seems like such a non issue considering how bad dog parks are for dogs anyways.
And I don't really understand the problem with these numbers. An off leash dog park is a space ONLY used by dog owners, so I don't think it should be a very high percentage of parks at all regardless? Especially compared to things like trails, playgrounds, beach access spaces... What exactly is an acceptable percentage? Nearly 1/20 of all park space is actually quite a bit to dedicated to solely dog use even if you think they are good to have, especially with how many parks we have in Seattle.
No one uses the one in Eastlake. I’ve only seen dogs there at all once or twice ever. Instead, they go to the Tops school’s field and let their dogs shit all over it. People suck.
I often walk in Magnussen Park, which is adjacent to a huge dog park. Despite the signs asking folks to keep their dogs on a leash in the park due to the wetlands and park nature and wildlife that we hope to protect, people constantly let their dogs run off leash IN the park rather than walking 10 feet to get into the dog area.
There is an entitlement and ignorance problem among many (but not all!) dog owners that really needs to get under control.
I will say that Sniff Spot has definitely been handy as well. Have enjoyed off leash in both modest nearby fenced yards and acre+ spaces. Easy enough to book for two dogs and have a play date with a dog friend.
Bad dog ownership issues continue into off-leash park spaces. People who don't pick up after their dog, people who bring reactive dogs, bringing dogs that aren't spayed or neutered, staring at their phones rather than closely monitoring their dog's behavior and keep an eye on the group energy of the dogs.
Neither our vet nor the owner of the dog training school we go to take their dogs to off leash parks because they've seen too many bad outcomes. We take our dog but prefer low crowd times and will leave promptly if someone is letting their dog cause issues. Just not worth the risk of a very expensive vet bill.
Just joining the conversation to add that there is a method to advocate for more off-leash areas in your area. Neighborhood groups can petition SPR for space and funding, here's a link:
https://www.seattlecola.info/
Additionally for folks who are having issues with off-leash dogs I encourage reporting them. Nuisance dogs can be reported on Find-it-fix-it and you can call SPR at their work order desk number 206-684-7250 to request Park Rangers if necessary.
For people who decide to run their dogs off leash I encourage you to remember:
you never know who else in the park may have past dog related trauma and may not feel safe around off-leash dogs
you never know how another dog might react to your dog approaching them
if your dog is off-leash and gets in a fight with another dog who is on-leash you will be found liable even if the other dog was the agressor
To be fair, after being on the East Coast with my service dog and treated terribly multiple times by individuals and businesses, even though he was exceptionally well behaved (as he has to be) and identified as a service dog, Seattle is much more pro-dog than a lot of places. I don't go to dog parks, but even when I'm out with my non-service dog foster dogs, I find that there's a lot of other resources. Vancouver might have more dog parks, but I think Seattle does accommodate dogs and dog owners well.
That being said, I'd assumed that Seattle had more dog parks than they do, so I can definitely understand the need for more dog parks, but that doesn't excuse breaking leash laws.
There isn't an "anti-dog" crowd here. There's an "anti-dangerous/unleashed dog" crowd. Availability of off-leash areas doesn't change the fact that idiots need to put their dogs on leashes.
I agree but tthink OP is putting the effort here (maybe some contact numbers will work, OP) to say we need more dog spaces and I wholly agree. Doesn’t mean we can’t enforce it so people letting their dogs run loose (& especially in playgrounds) shouldn’t be fined
As others have said, yes *and* dog owners need to be responsible and not let their dogs off where they’re not permitted or appropriate. I love dogs and have owned them my whole life; I also think that people who lets their dogs off leach everywhere are inconsiderate and selfish assholes.
Seattle should do more and have more parks, but that doesn’t excuse selfish choices that can negatively impact others.
Dogs don't need off leash public space.. I'm a dog owner I don't take my dogs to off leash parks and I try to keep my local parks free from self righteous assholes who let their dogs off leash there. If you can't take care of a dogs needs and relinquish it to off leash parks maybe you shouldn't get a dog..
Don't convert parks to off leash dog parks. Find net new unused areas and figure out the funding for it separately because it's the least responsible use for public parks. I say that as a dog owner.
Both can be true, but we can reduce the temptation that people have to break the law. I fully blame individuals for littering, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want there to be widely available and visible garbage cans where people can throw things away.
It is good policy to make it easy to be courteous. A city shouldn’t be designed so that it’s a lot of extra work to avoid breaking rules and being rude to your neighbors.
Japan has virtually no public trash cans and also doesn’t have a littering problem. Tokyo is one of the cleanest cities you could ever go to despite being one of the largest cities on the planet. It’s a culture problem not an amenity problem. Not leashing your dog because there aren’t off leash parks readily available is like running stop signs because the city won’t fill potholes, they are just too unrelated things entirely.
I also have a perspective: Having a dog is a choice. If you don’t live in an area that can accommodate your dog legally, don’t get a dog. Don’t move to an area that can’t accommodate your dog. Humans should be able to go to the park without being accosted by someone’s pet that doesn’t belong there.
I just don't understand the mentality of getting a dog that needs a ton of exercise and space when you live in a city. Why are people getting border collies in urban areas? Honestly I think it amounts to cruelty.
Don’t let lazy dog owners swindle you. For able bodied people, it’s very easy to give your high energy breed plenty of exercise while being 100% on a leash.
I live in the city. I walk my dogs between 2 and 4 hours a day and I also play with them at home in my studio apartment. It's absolutely possible to provide the necessary exercise as long as you actually try.
I've gone on rants enough times about how as dog ownership spread beyond families that raised and trained and understood them, knowledge dilution got worse and worse, and now we have so many people who don't understand how to properly take care of an animal (let alone a child).
Happens with all kinds of knowledge, but its especially shitty when its animal care.
I treat it exactly like I would having a child -- You either do what you have to do to be there for those in your care or you don't have them in the first place.
That's also why I never wanted children or even dogs in the first place. I wouldn't have my two dogs now if my wife hadn't wanted them. Now that we're separated, I'm a full-time dog dad and you bet your ass I'm going to do what I can to make sure their lives are good ones.
This city is full of walking & hiking trails that dogs are allowed on but it requires the owner do some work too. It's very easy to have a high energy dog in the city if you are committed to them. We have a husky that we don't leave in the yard or take to dog parks. She's very happy because she gets an hour + of serious exercise every day. It's very easy to do this while following all of the rules too.
This exactly. People need to consider the life they are actually living when they choose a dog. A home with no yard and humans that are gone working full-time is not a great situation for most dogs. There are so many pets out there. Dogs are not the only option.
What's the comparison here? I think u/Effective_Tour_4822 was saying that failure to provide adequate exercise to dogs is cruel, because dogs are sentient creatures. And cruelty is bad. Cars are not sentient and it is not cruel to park them on the street. Are there other reasons to restrict street parking? Sure. But your comment seems like a real non sequitur.
You can see that Vancouver has made it much easier for dog owning residents to stay compliant with leash laws by providing ample space that is more accessible by foot to its residents. A side benefit to having greater off-leash area coverage is the reduction in car trips for travel to dog parks.
The OP actually is talking about this other thing--the other thing being how making places like dog parks accessible by foot is a net good for dog owners and people who are tired of being hit by cars, having public spaces covered in cars, and not being able to safely cross the street because of cars.
The Marymoor Park off-leash dog area in Redmond, Washington, is a widely recognized 40-acre park known as "Doggy Disneyland". That one park has more off leash dog area than the 589 parks in Seattle put together.
This is a very good point, appreciate the context as well. But I just want to say that an off leash dog park is not required to exercise most dogs. I have been a dog owner for years, when my dogs have been pups I've leaned on dog parks but have mostly switched to hiking, running & long walks.
Having a dog park is nice but I also see that 90% of the people there are glued to their phones while their dogs play or just wander around. I don't consider it a necessity to be able to do that and in that same amt of time you could also just go for a walk or run, in my experience it's more stimulating for both parties.
This exactly. I don’t understand dog owners who think their dog needs to be off leash for adequate exercise. I have a large dog and we go on leashed walks twice a day and he does great!
I find it very odd that this extremely common form of exercise is overlooked. Probably because it requires more effort from lazy owners, hence the regular violation of leash laws.
I go to North Acres park a bunch and people constantly have their dogs off leash outside of the park, including bringing them to the field that says no dogs that is directly next to the park. It’s not ONLY a park space issue.
I agree that this state could use more dog parks, but the way to get them isn't to trash the other parks, which unfortunately, many of the techbro locust groups do because they are not invested in the area.
I often see it as the “desire path” paradox. People are breaking the rules because the infrastructure is not supporting their needs. Does that excuse irresponsible owners though? I think not but it is a sign for more resources
I agree it can be tough finding an off leash area depending on where you live. It’s not an excuse for letting your dog off leash in a non-off-leash area. But having more spaces might make people less likely to do that. It helps everyone.
How does the percentage of dog parks compare to the percentage of people who are dog owners?
The analogy somewhat falls apart when you realize children are not the same as dogs. Human societies (and by extension, cities) require children to sustain themselves. So it makes sense for cities to provide amenities for parents. Dogs are not required for human society or for cities in particular, so there is less reason to provide accommodations for dog owners.
100%. I really hate it when people equate pets and human children as if they are the same thing. It's very dehumanizing actually. Like children are the future. Meanwhile pets are castrated, they have their ears or tails cut to fit a breed aesthetic, and they are kept in homes that are way too small with absent owners to match their basic needs. Does any of that sound like something we would do to a child? So at its core, dog owners should know they are not equivalent and the things we do to dogs (that we supposedly love) are still unthinkable to do to children
Good point. Now I'm just counting down until someone says hits you with the "well ackshually" and argues that forcing kids to go to school and sit indoors is equivalent to forcing dogs to live indoors and walk on leashes.
Not really, because in this case there are still places your "child" (dog) can play, they just need to be on a leash. So the other one does make more sense in that there are still plenty of places to drive, you're just unhappy you can't drive the way you want to.
Sure but saying "I let my kid play in the busy streets until the city builds a playground in my neighborhood." is endangering your kids. So either I move where my kid has more space to play, or my kid plays less.
To get back to the dog: The solution is not to let your dog off leash, the solution is to either push for change or to move somewhere where there are better amenities for dogs.
"Seattle Parks (and King County at large) is simply letting down all residents by failing to expand off-leash access as this lack of access results in residents breaking the law and using other open spaces as off-leash areas." This is some crazy logic here. It's wild to blame the city and county for YOU not getting exactly what you want for the choices you make in your life.
Am also deeply amused by the people trying to label *checks notes* the _people who don't like unleashed dogs in leashed areas_ the Karens in this equation.
not just does overcrowding in dog parks lead to dog fights, it has directly caused my dogs to catch viruses requiring (no joke) thousands of dollars of vet and emergency vet visits. And thats with dog health insurance.
I'll put my support behind more off-leash dog park spaces when dog owners stop bringing their dogs into grocery stores and restaurants, and they universally clean up after their dogs when they shit on sidewalks and streetside green spaces.
Dog owners need to be talking amongst each other and policing their own before they can expect the rest of the city to get behind their grievances.
Sincerely,
Grew up with dogs and love all of them. Just not the owners.
To add in an anecdote, my nearest dog park isn’t usable due to the amount of trash and drug-use related waste (i.e needles) in it. In a small dog park, even a small amount of hazardous waste and needles make it unsafe for my very curious pup.
This post is incredibly obtuse. I have a dog. I walk my dog all over the place. My dog only goes off-leash in places where its legal to do so. Why? Because I'm not an asshole who feels like I'm entitled to do whatever I want simply because theres no off-leash dog park within 50 feet of my current location.
Would dog owners benefit from greater access to off-leash areas? Absolutely. I, as well as just about every dog owner in the area, would love to have more places to let my pup have the zoomies at will. That is an issue that should be brought before the city as a matter of community improvement and feedback, not because of some backward logic implied by OP.
Suggesting that it's the city's burden to create more off-leash spaces because people cant be bothered not to break the law is absolutely ridiculous. The entitlement is insane.
If we want this problem solved, the answer is enforcement of the existing laws and consequences for those who break them. Breaking the law because its more convenient for you to be an irresponsible pet owner rather than following a very fucking simple law is whiny toddler level behavior. Go stomp your angry little feet somewhere else.
This is not a new alternative perspective, it gets brought up almost every time someone complains about off leash dogs.
People need to be responsible dog owners or dog lovers. I love dogs and cats but I don't live in a place that is suitable for them. So I don't adopt them. I don't love them any less but recognize that keeping them in a small living space isn't a loving act. Dogs need space, attention and healthy relationships. They don't need to terrorize marine animals, get tied up in front of bakeries, ride grocery carts or chase toddlers in parks.
People really need to assess if they can provide a healthy home for a dog and if they can afford a back up plan if the dog has behavioral or medical issues.
owning a dog isn't a god damn right. if you get a giant fugging dog that needs constant exercise in your 400 sqft micro studio that's the same thing as having 6 kids with no job. it's just poor planning. the city cannot find land all of a sudden to give your god damn dogs free space to run. move to fucking issaquah if your dog is your number one priority. jfc
But when a candidate runs for mayor on a platform of adding a bus lane on Denny and expanding LWB bike weekends, then gets elected and does those things the NIMBYs scream that she didn't conduct Seattle Process about it. 🤷
Greenlake pool. They had a design to replace the falling apart structure from the 20s but then that structure was marked historic so they couldn’t. That building was never meant to last: it was designed for a *very* different Seattle than the one we have today, and it was built on a lakebed with a junky foundation.
Demo it and build something better. Don’t preserve just to keep old stuff.
Yes: I understand the historical value of it. I love vaulted arches. They suck in seismic areas. We demo’s the kingdome, we should be able to demo this tiny pool shell.
I am not sure what they're talking about as I am not super plugged into City of Seattle budgeting. I am a user of the pools though and I would love to see more built. There is a $21M plan to repair and maintain the pools through 2027/8 https://www.seattle.gov/parks/about-us/projects/city-wide-pool-renovation
Not OP but the grassy area of gasworks right off of Northlake way, next to the parking lot, could definitely fit a reasonably large fenced in off leash area. Would still leave tons of open space in gasworks and would serve an area of the city that has absolutely no off leash area in walking distance.
I don’t have a dog but I see a decent amount of dogs off leash in that space anyways. Can’t blame them because there is no alternative in the neighborhood, that is also probably the lowest traffic part of gasworks for other activities.
"I own dogs but I think we should all keep our dogs leashed when in public."
A non-anti-dog, normal ass every day responsible person who realizes the rules exist for good reasons and apply to everyone including themselves
"I'm dissatisfied with the number of off leash dog parks, therefore I'll let mine run off-leash wherever I want and am willing to endanger other people, pets, and my own pet's safety and well-being because I think it makes a bold statement about my dissatisfaction with the current accommodations the city provides me."
Insufficient spaces for dogs to be off leash is a fair argument, but it does not excuse the behavior of owners ignoring leash requirements in designated spaces which potentially endanger others as well as the dogs themselves.
I’ve seen 3 dogs get hit by cars, the most recent was about 6 months ago and the owner had the leash draped around her neck instead of attached to her dog. All it took was the dog getting startled by a trash truck banging a dumpster and the dog bolted into traffic… Very preventable…
I live near a park in South Seattle and there is a dog bite being reported every few months. This is a problem with a solution.
Seattle not having enough off leash dog parks may be a problem, but is unrelated to off leash dogs in designated leashed areas. Being an irresponsible pet owner is not a form of protest against the city not providing adequate amenities. No one forces anyone to be a pet owner. No one would protest potholes in the streets by running stop signs. Just be responsible and follow the rules.
A few things…
I’m probably what some would refer to as “anti dog”. The theory, I like most dogs. And I agree we need more dog parks. But it is the owners and their insufferable BS that make me hate them in practice.
My issues are as follows:
Off-leash dogs in dog free areas
Off-leash dogs in leashed only areas
Dogs off OR on leash being allowed to jump on me or touch me in any way when in public (I don’t like them jumping on me with their filthy paws and slobber, and I have indoor cats at home and can’t risk your dog’s potential fleas coming home with me to my cats)
Dog shit being left EVERYWHERE I walk or sit because dog owners don’t understand basic decency to clean up after their precious children
Dogs in restaurants and cafes. Odds are this is not a service animal, it’s just an animal that services your need for public attention, and congratulations, you’ve now contaminated our food and drink with hair every time your dog shakes.
If you want a big breed dog or high energy dog that needs to run a lot or demands a lot of free roaming space, then you should move to an area or home that accommodates your lifestyle. OR you should do all you can to lobby city council and the county to build more dog parks. Don’t impede areas that are not for dogs and then complain because people who actually follow posted signage and municipal code are upset.
There are ~26,000 licensed dogs in Seattle. If you want more dog parks, take it up with the estimated 140,000 people with unregistered dogs who are not only breaking the law, but also keeping the city from accurately assessing the scale of dog park needs or providing the licensing fee revenue to fund them.
I was really hoping this post was going another direction.
Unless you can confidently say your dog would never bite someone or another dog I think they need to be on the leash.
Too many things can happen in a split second and If one does end up biting someone or worse a kid or another dog.
That dog maybe put down for it.
I love my dog too much to let that happen. They have parks that have private off leash areas for dogs and such we don't need busy public parks where they can run off or get spooked etc.
Owning a dog, especially a breed that needs to run off leash, in the city is cruel and selfish. And letting them off leash in public spaces is anti-social. The urban environment isn't and has never been the environment for large or athletic dog breeds. This is well understood in the rest of the world.
People have more dogs than ever before. Please explain why the city should necessarily accommodate everyone's desire to have a dog. If every household had two dogs, should we therefore require that, eg, a portion of every single park be devoted to off-leash dogs? No.
There are things I wish Seattle parks had more of (outdoor calisthenics areas, for instance) but I'd never whine about how the city is "letting me down." A city simply cannot accommodate everyone given finite space in public parks.
Dog parks are crowded because so many people have chosen to have dogs. Not because the city is necessarily doing a bad job of providing accommodations for dog owners.
You're framing it like this is just the tragedy of the commons, except that's a solved problem. We have a government we all vote for that's in charge of managing common spaces. This "you get what you get" mindset ignores that we have officials and budget all allocated for improving parks already.
This post is just saying they could be doing a better job in one particular aspect.
Plants are the new pets, and pets are the new kids. And just like with kids, people that probably dont have the adequate time, resources, or knowledge to have pets are getting them anyways.
Many of the people in these threads are dog owners asking other dog owners to leash their dogs in public spaces. They're not anti-dog.
Bottom line seems to be that off-leashers should advocate for more space from the city rather than disrespecting their neighbors and taking our public parks for temselves.
I'm not anti-dog, I own one. I am however part of the crowd that cannot stand owners letting their dogs off leash where they shouldn't be. I have a small dog. 1 bite could easily kill him. I should not have to worry whether your dog that is now galloping towards us is friendly or not. He clearly doesn't listen to you if he's running at people and other dogs. Also your dog is still an animal, it doesn't matter how much training you've put in, it's still an animal and can snap at any point
Will more off leash dog parks also stop dog owners from taking their dogs into restaurants, bars, grocery stores, etc?
I agree, we need more off leash parks. But like others have said this isn't an "anti-dog" issue. Its a "i dont care about anyone else buy my dog and myself" issue.
That definitely sounds like we could use more dog parks. Doesn’t excuse people off-leashing their dogs in any way though.
I grew up with dogs and in the 90s/2000s, dog parks were hardly even a thing. We walked our dogs daily but never even knew of the concept of a dog park until later.
I truly think that many dog owners have a weird entitlement thing these days like they’re human children. It’s very bizarre. Get a hobby!
I live near an off-leash area. It is fenced off in a bit of a forested area, so it has a nice tree canopy. It's a little small, kind of muddy (but why do you have a dog if you are averse to mud?), and it does smell like ammonia because it doesn't appear to be that well-maintained; I understand why people might not like to go there (it wasn't pleasant to run past it as a high school cross country runner at Metros), but please keep them on a leash unless you're in a designated off-leash area, for the safety of others and your dog. I sometimes see people walking their dogs off-leash on Green Lake Way and in the Lower Woodland area, and I don't want to see your dog get hit by a car :(
More dog parks sounds like a whole lot more dog fights waiting to happen. The large majority of owners never do adequate (or any) training, don't understand their breed, and don't know how to recognize and respond to dog body language before it escalates.
Is this post secretly just some ER vets ensuring job security? 🤔
I feel like availability of off leash spaces is something dog owners need to take into account when thinking if a dog is right for them and not just decide the rules don’t apply to them tho.
I care much more that dog owners constantly illegally and improperly have dogs off leash. And you can't go to any city park without seeing either dog poop or left behind dog poop bags. We have to defend ourselves from these things. I want much much more enforcement on dog owners.
Sure, more off leash parks would be great. Less poop and less growling dogs off leash would be good too.
I'm not anti dog, I've had a dog. Just so tired of the dog problems. If you hav a kid you constantly have to watch out for dogs.
Don't be lazy, maybe move to an area of town that is more accommodating of your needs.
Edit: not trying to be an asshole even though I am very aware I am one. If I cant fly my helicopter transporting sick CHILDREN to the hospital in the laurelhurst neighborhood because of the trauma you feel your pet experiences..........
seattle's dog owner problem (an alternate take on the dog park problem)
might get downvoted to hell for this but let me at least disclaim by saying this is *not* a post about all dog owners in this city. not even most of them. it's not about the dogs as individuals, nor is it about the dogs as a group. there are no bad dogs, but unfortunately this city has a lot of terrible dog owners.
this is largely a result of the behavior of a large minority of dog owners' irresponsible behavior in these spaces. it's only gotten worse since covid. i work in a dogs at work office, and i can assure you, it's perfectly possible to have well behaved dogs in a well maintained environment: *when there are rules*
there's a few things contributing to fewer dog parks:
1) people who didn't socialize their covid puppies and/or don't think they need to train small or medium size dogs.
the result: the dogs become under-stimulated, reactive, and anxious. this is unfortunately an incredibly prevalent form of animal neglect in this city.
2) people who don't respect the boundaries of more responsible dog owners, often letting unsocialized and reactive small/medium dogs with poor recall run up on large dogs without asking first. this can potentially lead to them injuring or provoking the larger dog to react,
the result: a liability concern for the owner, leading to fewer well-trained dogs in off leash areas and more people letting their dogs off leash in areas it's not allowed.
3) people who don't clean up after their dogs, a shocking number of people seem to think dog parks have some kind of nightly janitorial service. others may just not care.
the result: increasingly unappealing and filthy off leash spaces, causing more dog owners to take their dogs to parks where they don't belong to avoid dirty off leash areas, they then illegally let their dogs off leash on human beaches (cough cough, magnuson park).
as a result fewer people use off leash spaces, making the apparent demand appear lower and degrading the quality of the existing spaces. this has gone on for long enough since covid that many of these spaces have gained a negative reputation, further decreasing traffic and perpetuating this cycle.
a second disclaimer before you call me an anti-dog NIMBY sociopath: i love dogs. i work with them every day. what i'm trying to explain here is that the epidemic of oblivious and irresponsible dog owners is a huge part of the reason our city has diminishing options for off leash dog parks. i think we need spaces for dogs, but that cannot feasibly happen until the community of dog owners can hold their own members accountable for the role they play in perpetuating this cycle.
Seattle has no 'anti-dog' crowd, we an have anti-selfish-dog-owners crowd. It's Seattleites fed up with people buying an animal then demanding we accommodate them; demanding we spend our tax dollars on services for THEIR dogs. A lot of us are sick of the insane level entitlement from people who decided to buy a pet.
No. You get no more parks to destroy. Seattle dog owners have proven time and time again that they can not be trusted with any access to our parks.
Lincoln Park may never recover from the damage done by off leash dogs.
You wanted the dog, drive 20 minutes to a dog park, get a house with a yard, it is not OUR responsibility to care for YOUR dog.
Grow up and take responsibility for your own decisions.
I have a very large dog breed that is protective. He is trained and very good on a leash until off leash dogs come up and he thinks he has to protect me. I am very selective about what off leash areas I take my dog to as I am aware of the tendencies of the breed. That’s why we go on structured walks on leash, it helps with his socialization and we both get exercise. But these people who let their dogs run don’t understand is, even though he’s leashed, he’s 200 plus lbs of “I have to protect my dad” and if your little dog runs up barking and biting it may end badly.
There’s conservation reasons why certain beaches don’t allow dogs and require them to be leashed in parks. There’s simply no excuse to not adhere to those rules when you often see dogs off leash chase birds on the water, bark at seals, terrorize nesting shorebirds, chase chipmunks, not respond to the owner’s call and the owners who don’t even try. I’ve also seen dogs terrified of the water being forced to swim. I love dogs and recreate with them regularly. It doesn’t take much to look up the rules and follow them. Clearly we don’t deserve all this beauty and perhaps humans should be banned too and let nature reclaim these spaces.
Eh, dog parks are pretty far down the list of important things for a city. If people know this is an issue maybe they should think twice about getting a dog?
Just because getting to off leash areas is a pain that doesn't mean owners can let their dogs off least in normal parks. It means you should be raising hell for more dog parks.
I made a choice in an environment where it’s not a smart one. if you want to let your pet free roam go live in a forest and buy a home. It’s x10 cheaper and about x100 less cruel.
You chose to live in Seattle.
you chose to have an animal in an environment it’s not supposed to be in.
I have 0 sympathy for dog owners in the city. I have had 4 dogs in my life and I would never even consider having one living in a city.
Honestly I am fine with people having their dogs off leash in Cal Anderson (the park I frequent most often) as long as their dog has good recall and the people realize it is not a dog park, and make space for people trying to actually do park approved activities if needed.
I've been flying my kite in the park recently and have had mostly positive experiences but a couple of dog owners have seemed pretty offended by me encroaching on their dog's space.
One thing you're not even touching on is WA has no off-leash hiking trails. The closest are the long fenced areas at places like Magnuson Park, but that's not the same. I'm talking about real hiking trails, in the woods, designed as okay for off-leash dogs.
This is weird. Every single one of our neighbors, BC, Oregon, Idaho, they all have trails like that.
WA seems to have this idea that any off-leash area needs to have a fence around the entire space, and while that's one of those statements that initially feels reasonable the first time you hear it, it cuts off an entire class of dog park. It means we're never going to have enough off-leash space because we constantly need to justify the investment in this infrastructure that we're the only ones building.
Genuine question from someone who loves dogs but has never owned one due to allergies: is being off leash needed for most dogs health/ happiness? My friends who have dogs have told me they are able to meet their dogs' exercise and play needs while keeping them on leash, and most parks that aren't beaches or playgrounds do allow on-leash dogs. That being said, I have never had a dog myself, so I may very well be missing something here.
Incidentally, shout out to all the many awesome dog owners I saw in Discovery Park this weekend, who all had their dogs leashed and were picking up after themselves! Also a shout-out to the two people who had leashed cats out on an adventure. I loved getting to see all of the very good pets without worrying about any of them getting hurt by other animals.
I care a lot more about the scooters and e-bikes on the sidewalks than I do about dogs off leash. OP has an awesome point with facts but the comment section is still an echo chamber of bored folkx with basic complaints
What about the Moslem population tho? Are they to be barred from park usage so you can run your boofers about without having thought to get a house with a yard?
This is why Katie Wilson is national news this week. Turns out, running a city isn't as easy as a lot of people think it is
i think part of it is 1) most of the dogs in this city are so poorly trained (if at all) that they're borderline incapable of safely engaging with other dogs especially since covid and 2) there's minimal public momentum to further accommodate those dogs because the prevalence of behavioral issues and disregard for park sanitation by owners has built up public resentment
You are right on both counts but I still think there is need for more dog parks regardless or even because of these facts. The sheer popularity of dog ownership in this city kinda justifies the case for more amenities like dog parks, so that more dog restricted areas can stay just that, dog free (or at least dog leashed only).
I’m not excusing shitty dog owning behavior, and I don’t think OP was either. Dogs should stay leashed anywhere outside of the home that’s not an off leash zone, some dogs don’t even belong in dog parks at all because of their reactivity. People definitely need to do a beefed job of training their dogs. But a lot of dog parks are overcrowded and inconvenient for people who want to train their dogs properly or want to some how avoid over crowded areas with too much other dog stimulation. For instance someone training their dog for casual water activities has very few designated options within the city limits, even fewer if they want to avoid a dog circus with lots of triggers. The majority of training can be done on leash but acceptable dog access to water, leashed or not, is really restricted. I’m sure one can argue that this should not be one of our priorities but again so many people own dogs that this is clearly a problem. They are not going to move from the city just because they own a dog, they will reach for the more convenient options (which is breaking the unenforced law) until a more convenient dog friendly alternative is available to divert them to - they are going to ruin the dog restricted zones with their shitty behavior until we redirect them. Better enforcement and more dog parks is reasonably practical based on the numbers OP posted.
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u/slomopomo May 04 '26
We definitely need more dog parks, but people still need to leash their dogs in other spots.
I live next to a great unleashed dog park. I counted 15 dogs off leash in the leashed part of the park the other day. There is another park a few blocks away where people let dogs run unleashed through the soccer field all the time. As an owner of two small dogs that have been attacked multiple times by off leash dogs, I would appreciate if leash laws were followed.