but people still wanted to work there, now, not so much.
As someone who has lived in Rural America for most of their life, not even this is true. The area I live in is extremely rural and for the past 50 years, our population, and the population of nearby towns has been decreasing on every 10 year census.
No one wants to live rurally they just say they do.
I live in a pretty rural area and most of the people below 25 want to get the fuck out at literally any cost. There is nothing to do, there are no jobs where an individual can build wealth, the tech industry isn't here, construction ain't happening, there is no job where an individual can reasonably start a family. There is really little benefit to living in rural America, most sane people want to leave to live in a city or near a city.
Not no one, just not many. I'm an anxious mess in the city, and I consider something a "city" if it has a population over 10,000 people. Some of us actually are rural people.
I grew up on the city limit line just outside of a town of 5000 people. I still felt like it was "too peopley". The one neighbor we had was two acres away and that was still too close. I totally get why people like towns, and I use the term "city slicker" endearingly, but yeah I really prefer being at bare minimum ten minutes away from any place big enough for a Walmart.
I can comfortably be around 30-45 minutes away from the nearest town without feeling like I need to make specific arrangements for store trips. A lot of the problem is that the places you can get really far away aren't in my preferred biome. Also I have to be responsible for my kids. I may be a cabin in the woods person, but my kids aren't, so i have to stay close enough for them to get to the hospital and see other kids.
Also, time and distance feel different depending on area. In flat rural areas, ten minutes can be a completely different county. In WV it can take 20 on a good road, twice that if you're coming from a holler
I have lived rural for a long time, it is not a great place to look for jobs for the first time because the only places hiring are near towns, and it you're too far away there really is any option for first time jobs.
So they were executing people publicly in the last 90 years? No, they weren't, think about what you're saying. America IS getting materially worse under MAGA. Abduction and deportation of hundreds of thousands of people without due process, unilateral global tariffs, president alone invading countries, etc., etc.
Trump didn't JUST remove the mask. He removed the mask and started grimacing.
Yes.. they were. Black people have been getting mass incarcerated since the US started. It's HOW it started. George Floyd. Emmett Till. Breanna Taylor. COUNTLESS others. Did we forget the US started with LITERAL CHATTEL SLAVERY and only ended Jim Crow 60 years ago?
Gulf war was televised. Extraordinary rendition is standard practice.
Unilateral tariffs are as old as the US.
President alone declaring wars that aren't called wars comes from the Korean War in 1950. There are previous examples that may qualify, but the Korean war is clear cut. BTW, Trump hasn't invaded. Blockade and bombing, yes, but no invasion.
Not all but the majority. 70 million Americans voted for Trump. 70 million Americans thought that a man with a history of racism and misogyny, a rapist, a 34 times convicted felon and traitorous insurrectionist should be their Head of State. They decided he was the best person to represent them and their country. A Black woman who wasnāt a convicted criminal, who was highly qualified to do the job wasnāt elected because racism and misogyny won out over competence and decency. 3 and 4 star generals described Trump as an existential threat to the United States and 90 million Americans couldnāt be bothered to vote at all. People fought for and died to secure the right to vote and 90 million Americans decided not to exercise that right. Thatās the greatest dereliction of civic duty Iāve ever seen. The election of Trump (twice) tells me everything I need to know about the majority of Americans and none of it is good.
I was born in a dictatorship because the US didnt like our democracy. Long before Trump. Your willful ignorance of your own country's horrors are what's hateful.
Born in Harlem raised in the bronx, les in the 80's and a veteran Co father minister brother husband to many titles too be ignorant. I don't know everything, but egotistical maniacs like yourself will say they know it all. If you only see life from one perspective then it may be the mirror is the only enemy we should be fighting...
The US trained the torturers that raped people with rats and dogs. The death squads that orphaned my D&D pal and hid the body for decades. Knowingly funded and trained the dictatorship thst genocided my ex's dad people. Trained the torturers that tortured my bandmate's dad. The death squad that disappeared people.A friend of my mom spent her weekends looking for her missing father. Doctor dueing the week. Desperste orphan during weekends. Is that not hate embodied? The willfull murder, rape and torture of civilians?
We trained the ones whom wanted to take their country back and some ran as soon as the fighting got to tough, as well as infiltrators disguised as civilians whom were given up by their own because they were tired of being oppressed. You should wish to be as brave as your ancestors they look down in disappointment seeing us all fight instead of building a safer world for our future.
Please tell me that the individual federal agents who shot Good and Pretti respectively will be criminally prosecuted for exceeding their authority. Those thugs belong in prison.
Nope. They were immediately celebrated and MAGA has tried their hardest to make these 2 look like the absolute worst people ever to exist. We need another plague. Last one just didn't do it for us
I could care less about public executions, do them all public, sell it on pay per view, maybe it should be mandatory for all US citizens to be forced to watch the execution if they're willing to kill a person for their crimes, some people might rethink it after they watch a few.
Why would they? those two victims are not first or last to be executed on a daily basis by the police or ice. Nothing has been done about it. They won't protect children.Why would this be any different? If its different now, what the hell are you all doing then . Americants is the most apathetic fearfull people, but hey they are free to carry guns to shoot black people and children. Good job...
He wasn't resisting before they cuffed him. Even if he had been lethal force is only justified if there is a reasonable fear for their life. Which there absolutely wasn't.Ā
āWas he standing still or actively resisting?ā
Neither. He was on the ground getting dragged away and being beaten senseless while also not fighting back or returning violence in any measure.
The only form of "resistance" was attempting to flee, only to get pulled back down violently. And attempting to escape those doing one harm to onesself without even trying to return harm is not a justifiable prelude to lethal force from enforcement officers or agents.
ā
āWhat possible threat did the agents face at the time? He had a firearm.ā
That he never even attempted to reach for. Merely owning a firearm and keeping it in its holster does not make someone an immediate threat. Them actively holding it and/or preparing to use it (like Rittenhouse did) does. And Pretti was neither holding it, nor preparing to use it.
ā
āCould he still pull the trigger if he was handcuffed?ā
No. Because:
Handcuffing usually requires oneās hands to be behind their back to minimize the risk of violence from the restrained to be enacted upon themselves or others.
He was not holding the gun, as it was originally securely in its holster during the cuffing (out of reasonable reach if his hands were restrained behind his back).
He was summarily disarmed within full view of everyone (including the agents who killed him) moments before getting the firing squad treatment. This not only renders any ājustifiable self defenseā or āposing a threatā idea entirely null-and-void in every conceivable, logical, reasonable sense no matter how unreasonable people want to twist it, but also removing the weapon from his control entirely and making it impossible for him to pull the trigger in any case, period.
And those facts destroyed your remaining question, as well as your absurd conclusion that shooting a restrained, injured, disarmed man dead is justifiable, legally or morally, in any sense.
I'm going to help you out, since You have some fatal legal flaws. However, you are trying and i respect that.
Your entire argument rests on the assumption that because someone is restrained, injured, or disarmed at some point, lethal force must automatically be unjustified. Thatās not how use-of-force law works.
"Niether". But than you agree he was resistance by attempting to flee. Which doesn't mean helpless. Plus, I have you being wishy washy with this question, meaning you don't want to fully admit to what happen. It's a win on my side.
All It means he was actively resisting to a lawful arrest. Doesn't mean it was justified. Just say yes.
Durring that, he was actively moving and attempting to escape, had he reached for it, attempting to use it, or otherwise presenting an imminent threat. Which at the time was a likely possibility.
"Could he still pull trigger if he was handcuffed".... dude this question is a trap. You have to say yes. Otherwise, you are being dishonested and i can dismise your arugment in a court of law.
Saying yes, doesn't mean it's a justify shooting, it just establishes that he had the ability to put less than a pound of presure on the trigger.
What you should focus your arugment on.
Were the officers facing an imminent threat when they fired, and was deadly force objectively reasonable under the circumstances at that moment?
I have proven that it was reasonable under this situation.
āYour entire argument rests on the assumption that because someone is restrained, injured, or disarmed at some pointā
Not āat some pointā, and not āorā. That indicates that all three couldāve happened to him at different points throughout his life, even months or decades prior to him getting killed. In this instance, all three happened at once and he was in a state of complete helplessness, and was entirely harmless, immediately prior to getting gunned down.
ā
āthat lethal force must automatically be unjustified. Thatās not how use-of-force law works.ā
Except it is. Such a law strictly limits the use of force by enforcement officers and agents to not exceed that which is reasonably necessary depending on the circumstances and situation at hand.
Killing a man who just got his bones broken, firearm removed, and is restrained and showed zero hostility prior and during the beating would be recognized by any rational authority judge as an excessive use of force and would, therefore, be considered unlawful and unjustified.
ā
āPlus, I have you being wishy-washy with this question. Meaning that you donāt want to admit what happened.ā
Not really. If you actually look at what I said, itās clear that I described the events in full context and stated exactly what happened, as shown in the highly publicized video.
How you came to the conclusion you stated in the quoted part is baffling, and leads me to believe that you are projecting. You constantly skirting around the fact that Pretti never presented himself as a threat and never made a violent action against the officers renders any claim that his death would be justified in any objective and non-biased U.S. court of law a voided statement made only possible in a world of dystopian fiction, and claiming a win while doing that also further cements the idea that you are projecting.
ā
āAll it means is that he was actively resisting to a lawful arrest. Doesnāt mean that it was justified.ā
Ok. So we finally agree that it was not justified. However, I would also consider the āarrestā to be unlawful. Because, prior to getting dragged away and beaten viciously, the only thing Pretti did was insert himself between an ICE agent and a woman said agent had recently, unprovoked, shoved to the ground and was about to do who knows what else to her.
He did not engage in violence. He did not obstruct justice. He did not exacerbate the situation. He did not have an outstanding warrant. He simply stopped one person from being unduly harmed, and then asked if she was okay. And he didnāt even get an answer before they dragged him into the middle of the street to beat the hell out of him and slap cuffs on him before shooting him dead.
No rational person would consider that arrest lawful.
And, again, lethal force is only permitted if the resistance includes violence being enacted by the one getting arrested, which did not happen.
ā
āāCould he still pull the trigger, if he was handcuffedā ā¦ dude. This question is a trap. You have to say yes. Otherwise you are being dishonest and I can dismiss your argument in a court of law.ā
I can say no without being dishonest, actually, and have done so while giving very reasonable explanations as to why, in this situation, it was not possible for Pretti to pull the trigger of a weapon he was not holding or in possession or in reach of (unless you want to make the accusation that he held the power of telekinesis all along and just never displayed it, which would be the only way it would be possible. But it'd also be a very stupid statement to make and would delegitimize your take further than it already has been).
Claiming it was, given that the question was posed under the reasonable circumstances that we are considering the full scope of the situation we're talking about, is what's really dishonest here. Under the exact circumstances Pretti was in, it was not, in fact, possible. The reasons having already been stated in my previous comment.
Furthermore, your statement about having a solid response to such a weak trap-question be made inadmissible and dismissed in a U.S. court of law suggests that you donāt even have the most basic understanding of U.S.A. laws or how our court system operates. And your final one shows that you grossly overestimate what you put forth if you seriously think it proved anything other than you having a Dunning Kruger Effect moment.
That's not true at all lol. Look at LA, NY, Minnesota, California etc. Texas and Florida are pretty fkn great, I have a great life in west Kentucky and used to live in Nashville.
Iād say high-speed rail has been a massive flopā¦ Iād also argue that their tax policy is regressive and counterproductive. But, Iād be happy to hear another side to these points.
Yes, California subsidises other states (not just specifically the ones you stated), and they are a democratic leadership. Yet, Texas is a Republican state, and they are also a net contributor under the same scheme. Whatās your point?
Texas is like half the gdp of California still, but is also in danger of flipping at the moment as well, so is south Carolina
High speed rail is the go to for everyone when talking down on california, which the biggest issue is a consultants travel stuff
Are we mad its taking years to build hundreds of miles of high speed train systems as well as the foundation for such?
The only argument that can be made for California's taxes being regressive are a higher sales / property tax than other states. It has a tiered income tax system which could be more aggressive at higher levels but
None are huge issues outside random right wing talking points.
But as someone who lived in the sf bay area and am now in rural red Colorado corner, it was nice not having to drive 2 hrs one way to get to a decent hospital
Or the roads falling apart out here, electrical system a fart can fuck over, gas prices high because, cant even blame taxes
Schools that dont have to fundraise for stem equipment is nice...
No, I agree. But not in the way you think. China spends billion to cause poltical turnmoil in this nation. It's a problem the both sides don't want to say out loud.
Uhhh, dems have been saying Russia and china have been aiding Republicans for years
Ukraine is targeting Russian data centers before a us election, why?
Why are so many threads, that would usually have 1500 downvoted dumbasses now have 5?
Why is the us refusing to help ukraine and ruining relations with nato during the window of weakness (2026-2030) while eastern europe changes over from Russian rail to standard?
Guess how long it takes to cut off the swalski[sp?] Gap now? How long does it take to move a tank brigade over rail or ship?
How long it takes to move a brigade of tanks from the rail swap over?
Why is russia telling us it will use nukes if anyone threatens its enclave while threatening the Baltic states?
Look around the world and its telling, and quite obvious trump has been a russian pet since the 80s
Trump tower Moscow, trump buisness with Russia for the last 40 years, Russian banks backing most of trumps businesses since us banks wont
Why is the us buying Russian gas?
Trump family members and associates have previously stated that Russian individuals and sources invested heavily in Trump properties or provided capital following financial restructurings in the 1990s. Trump has maintained that his business connections to Russia were legitimate and did not create a conflict of interest
The bipartisan intelligence committee in 2016 found trump had ties to Russia that created a conflict of interest
The Mueller report proved it
The senate intelligence committee called ā¢ final report described the Trump campaign's interactions with Russian intelligence elements as a grave counterintelligence threat, noting that several associates were eager to exploit Kremlin help.
Not even half of the recipts we can easily bring, but you guys dont even read and always whatabout both sides bullshit
This is basically every developed country , they steal resources from other countries and they ran out of resources and they cant steal anymore like the first time
Itās been like that in certain places. We are by no means flourishing or on par with other first world countries. Tbf, weāre quite large as a country but still.
It was the moment it sent its own military unto itself. I'd like to say it's now a country only recognizable by its borders but this racist shit has gone on forever and I mean forever
"Monkey killing, monkey killing monkey over
Pieces of the ground
Silly monkeys
Give them thumbs, they make a club
To beat their brother down
How they've survived so misguided is a mystery
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here"
I seems to remember Muslim takeovers, illegal immigrants cesspool cities, BLM riots when Trump wasn't in office... Those are all democrat related, not republican or maga. š
I lean left, but I agree with your assessment of modern politics. The 'right' isn't really conservative -- it's the Trump party. The 'left' has evolved to be more of a reactionary leftist instead of being liberal. My optimistic hope is that Trumpism fades away after a few years and both parties' centrist elements gain prominence and we start seeing a return to bipartisan compromise. I moved away from the USA in 2016 and got to watch things go absolutely to shit from the outside... at the same time I still believe we can get back in touch with what really makes USA awesome. Just need to move past the cadre of corrupt shitty political leaders and hopefully tamp down the polarizing ragebait social media algorithms that tell everybody how to think.
I think when one party goes to extremes it generally creates a reaction for the opposing party to generally go to equal opposite extremes. The longer Republicans vote extremists or allow extremists to stay in control the further into opposite extremes we will watch democrats drift. It becomes very difficult to find runners of sound mind. Talarico of Texas seems genuine. Green of TN seem genuine. Though the ones of sound mind are usually snuffed out and replaced in the middle of the night..
Presidential 2016 - While Bernie was not without flaws Hillary sure wasn't the go to. I think it's very flawed on both sides. The problem i see with Republicans today is it's being fueled with genuine hate and unAmerican ideologies.
Politics is not a thing I've ever been big on and I'm very new to it, but i will view it as a whole and i look at political parties and politicians like underwear. When dirty change em.
The DSA is not an extremist party by any means in almost any other first world country. In pretty much every other first world country a Social democratic party is considered center left and a democratic socialist is considered left wing not far left. It seems like theyre all doing better than us so they must be doing something right
Agreed. Itās a populist party with an unserious leadership thatās entire philosophy is grotesque shows of power and greed. Definitely not a conservative party which used to believe in slow incremental change. This is just break stuff consequences be damned. Ham fists to the max.
Itās pretty well-known that the Conservative Party is dead. You have some resistance like The Lincoln Project, but not much. Itās pretty much all Trump acolytes and thatās about it. Disgusting.
Trump didn't change anything significant about the Republican party, he just said the quiet parts out loud. You've always been in bed with racists, transphobes, and general bigots (well, since the party swap in the aftermath of the Civil Rights Act at least when they started leaving the Democratic party). You've always been on the side of the poorly educated and those who care not for the struggles of others. The only major change Trump made to the Republican party is their stance on Russia, who of course he did not collude with. You are ignorant of who you side with.
Idk. It seems like all the rhetoric coming Rush Limbaugh/FoxNEWS came to real life policy in action. Iād welcome a reality check/recalibration from the GOP but the fact is that the republicans flew fast and eagerly in Trumpās direction. And here we are, knee deep in swamp water.
That's a nice way of justifying it. Yet imagine you are walking around the city with your group of friends every weekend. Then one weekend one of your friends starts shouting horrible things and flashes his dick every chance he got.
If you keep going out with him every week while he does that. it doesnt really matter that YOU dont show your dick or participate in his shenanigans.
The fact you kept quiet, and didnt speak up says much more about you than about your friend. By staying quiet you send out a really loud message. Expecting everyone will start treating you normal again once the dumb friend is gone is madness.
Yeah we know. One day everyone will have been against this.
If you were to remove every MAGA member of congress right now, you might be left with just enough to count on one hand. MAGA is the conservative party. MAGA is its logical endpoint. MAGA simply does aloud what "conservatives" drool about in private.
Nashville is essentially a purely tourist city at this point the downtown area is very very nice. For some reason itās one of the top cities for bachelorette parties and such. All investment goes into improving the main bar area downtown. The rest of the city suffers from extremely increased rent and taxes to fund this garbage and the working class suffers like usual.
A lot of touristy cities are guilty of sweeping stuff like crime statistics under the rug, or in Louisville's case, misallocating the reports to surrounding areas so the tourist spots, like Waterfront Park, don't sound as sketchy to tourists despite vagrancy and a drug epidemic.
Downvoted for simply liking America by Americans who hate their own country. Sad. They should move somewhere they like but thatās too hard for people that suck off of the government for a living.
US has the 3rd largest population in the world, yes? The density of p/kmĀ² is still only 38, but the population is still large enough to occupy all those abandoned towns to capacity. Hell, the state of New York alone can do that.
if we perfectly spread out everyone we could fill fucknugget,idaho but then the people who like living in cities would move and create ghost towns again so my point stands: large country low people
They also don't scream so poor we can't afford roads hospitals and our people regularly starve and we don't accept food from others for vanity/pride purposes.
Those areas have pretty much always been that way though. Country music wouldn't exist if it wasn't for those types of areas!
However, if you want to look at places that truly have changed, Detroit is first on my list. San Francisco is pretty high on the list too. D.C. has been a giant turd sandwich for quite a while now.
How exactly are we defining a "third-world" country? When you look at the day-to-day reality of its citizens, the rich and the poor effectively live in two completely different Americas.
āIn one America, communities are plagued by housing insecurity, gun violence, and severe drug epidemics. For the youth growing up in these neighborhoods, the primary concern is often basic, day-to-day survival.
āIn the other America, neighborhoods are defined by homeownership, gated communities, and country clubs. For the youth there, the biggest stressor is deciding which university to attend. When the gap in safety, wealth, and fundamental living conditions is that extreme, it becomes very difficult to paint the entire country with the broad brush of a fully developed nation.
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his famous "The Other America" speech on April 14, 1967, at Stanford University.
Dr. King described the United States as being split into two completely different societies:
ā¢ The First America: A land of prosperity, abundance, education, and human dignity where millions of people experience freedom and the pursuit of happiness.
ā¢ The Other America: A place of daily despair, joblessness, rat-infested slums, and crushed hopes.
Still relevant today. My point wasn't that the USA is a third world country, per se, but that reality is different depending on the side of the tracks you live.
King saw both Americas clearly, and that disparity still exists today. He won a Nobel Peace Prize and was later assassinated for speaking his truth.
You asked for sources, so here are some. The Epstein situation. The contaminated water in Flint. Declining food quality and a healthcare system that's its own crisis. And the killings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti by federal agents in Minneapolis, with no arrests since.
None of these is an isolated incident. Taken together, they're why so many people are saying the US is devolving. Whether or not you agree with the label, the pattern is hard to ignore.
Nah bro. We saw you Guys as land of opportunity and freedom. Now you are just shame to the world. I donāt mean good americans. But those who lead right now and support them. This is crazy.
Incorrect neighbour. While financially the US is far from falling into that category, The Fund for Peace organization, which do the annual Fragile State Index, has flagged the US for a number of red warning signs that they're slipping from a 1st world country due to instability within the country as a whole since the current administration.
Prime example being your wonderful First Amendment rights that Americans take a lot of pride in: the US is currently #64 for freedom of speech out of 180 countries. That's pretty abysmal.
The fact that your source ranks anyone above the US for free speech shows it's full of shit. There isn't a single country that beats out the US for free speech. Not one.
For example, the UK arrested more people for speech "crimes" than Russia.
Sorry, I just found it so funny. Yes, 12,000 people were arrested for online opinions within the UK, but all of those cases involved violating the Communications Act, including inciting violence and doxxing, uttering threats and stalking.
The 800 in Russia that's used in the comparison are all high profile political cases. That pool is misinterpreted due to the comparisons are from completely different pools.
If we use the same pool for Russia as the UK, you end up with over 40,000 in the same time frame.
Yes, everything is fine there. Republican states on the other hand, way more poverty, lowest ratings in health, education and whatnot. So much to be proud about.
Also, republican states take money from the government while democratic states pay more on average. Weird how none of you cry about that form of socialism
California is the 4th largest economy in the world, they pay to the government to fund red states. Red states wouldn't survive for 1 year without blue states. You are so far gone in propaganda that you can't see reality if it would be right in front of you.
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u/binzersguy 1d ago
America has become a shithole 3rd world country thanks to MAGA