(Edit: Not sure why this is being downvoted, given how much Trump and his ilk blame things on illegal immigrants... is there a connotation I'm missing? Oh, well.)
(Second edit: Apparently I used the wrong emoji, so - /s instead!)
No thatâs not why. Quit giving people an out. By law your employer has to give you time to vote. There is early voting. Anyone who didnât vote chose not to vote. You are also assuming they would have voted against trump.
I say this as someone who did vote Obama ... then realized he largely abandoned his "Change" paltform when he got into office; to became a fairly standard Neoliberal on most issues. Which demoralized the Dems base, and aided in a massive swing the other direction. Oh, and that a centrist party in a two party state really only exists to give more power to its opposition. Especially when that party is so deeply beholden to the same intensly conservative Private/Capital interest groups. Fascism is at the end of the day the marriage between Capital and the State.
It also proves that Einstein was absolutely right in his short 1949 essay "Why Socialism?" Even if you dont agree with Socialism itself. That under Capitalism, if its allowed to exist at all, Public Education will be rendered little more than tool for manufacturing convenient workers for various parts of the labor market; instead of well rounded individuals ready to participate in civic life. While the accumulation of Capital into a increasingly tiny handful of the population will eventually outstrip a State's ability to control that population. Resulting in ... you guessed it ... Fascism.
Beyond that, it reminds me of this quote:
"And then one fine day the bourgeoisie is awakened by a terrific boomerang effect: the gestapos are busy, the prisons fill up, the torturers standing around the racks invent, refine, discuss. People are surprised, they become indignant. They say: "How strange! But never mindâit's Nazism, it will pass!" And they wait, and they hope; and they hide the truth from themselves, that it is barbarism, the supreme barbarism, the crowning barbarism that sums up all the daily barbarisms; that it is Nazism, yes, but that before they were its victims, they were its accomplices; that they tolerated that Nazism before it was inflicted on them, that they absolved it, shut their eyes to it, legitimized it, because, until then, it had been applied only to non-European peoples; that they have cultivated that Nazism, that they are responsible for it, and that before engulfing the whole edifice of Western, Christian civilization in its reddened waters, it oozes, seeps, and trickles from every crack."
ââAimĂŠ CĂŠsaire, Discourse on Colonialism (1950)
The fact that the commenter didnât mention that democrats only controlled the House and Senate for 72 days, in which time they passed the ACA, failed to mention the republican dinner before Obamaâs inauguration in which they vowed to thwart everything he proposed even though we were in a massive recession and banking crisis says everything about this person.
Interesting perspective. Yeah, the absolutely factually incorrect statements are straight out of that era. Perhaps even a few of these are still used by Macedonians or their contemporaries? Itâs a non-zero chance. Same outcome either way.
Not to mention, iirc, the Libertarian party splitting the republican vote heavily until after Obama got re-elected and their base unified under the more extreme maga gop - that and the consolidated conservative media apparatus that grew emboldened under Obama, allowing the cult to be herded.
Oh shut the hell up with the excuses. Nobody cares WHY he didnt do shit, they care THAT he didnt do shit. He should have forced his agenda through regardless. He should have named Merrick Garland an official Justice the day republicans chose not to offer their "advice and consent", as the constitution states that he can. Oh, the republicans say he cant? Well, then let them take it to the SC, none of this conceding prematurely bullshit. Republicans wont let him have medicare for all like he ran on? Well, then kill the filibuster and make it happen. Thats WHY we elected him, he is actively defying the will of the people if he DOESNT force it through
That's actually not true. If he had followed the law, he would have put Garland in as a Justice. The constitution says the president chooses, and there is no "unless congress puts their fingers in their ears" clause. By allowing the senate to deny him his selection, Obama technically broke the law. It was his duty to fill that seat, and he failed in it.
You think not getting consent from the Senate would be âfollowing the law?â And that Garland would have agreed to be seated? And that the republicans wouldnât have sued even if he did? And that the Supreme Court would have decided on appeal that it was legal to seat a justice without the Senate consent?
Well lets see, we keep doing the thing the dems insist will work eventually, voting for the lesser evil, and candidates on both sides just keep getting more evil. Huh, do you think maybe we should stop believing the dems now that it hasnt worked for 50 years straight?
You seem to have misunderstood, I am the one thinking about elections holistically, not you. I'm the one saying we need to quit falling for the same exact trick our grandfather's fell for.
You want to let me know what your solution is if Democrats - most of who nationwide are SocDems at best - choose someone you disapprove of in the primaries?
Well it depends, now doesn't it? If they nominate Adolf Hitler, I would hope anybody with a brain would refuse to vote for him. And no, im not going to vote for Donald trump in that case, because you don't give fascists legitimacy by engaging in rigged elections. Which a choice of 2 fascists very clearly IS. I went in to 2024 planning to vote for Harris, I liked her in 2020. But you dont get to run a campaign centered on Dick Cheney, genocide, and "nothing will fundamentally change", and still get my vote.
Its been 50 years of dems saying "we swear we want to move left, but unfortunately this particular guy is so bad, we're gonna have to move to the right again". Followed by some bullshit about a made up moderate voter. The reality has always been that the way for dems to win is by moving left, into populist issues like M4A. That's how Obama won, after all.
In regards to your schooling portion of the comment, I donât think itâs a coincidence that all these rich and powerful people have their kids in the Waldorf schools rather than the type of schooling us plebeians get.
I remember reading an article which was a letter that a farmer wrote into his local newspaper in the 1900âs or 1910âs about the American public school system. Iâm going to paraphrase but he wrote that âwhat they are doing is going to be creating good citizens, not teaching people how to think or be creativeâ, which I thought was amazing foresight.
Thank you for so eloquently saying what needs to be said. Unfortunately the centrists that responded are totally on board with what he did and ignore the effects ( probably it's because they have been personally insulated from them).
Thatâs a lot of writing to justify why you voted Jill Stein or stayed home.
And stop acting like Obama ran as a progressive and pulled the rug out from under you. He ran a centrist campaign the entire time, except for the fact that he ran on and passed the most significant healthcare reform since Medicaid.
I donât think you understand what the âfar rightâ wants. The âfar rightâ wants nothing. They donât want a fix. They loathe Obamacare because they donât think government should help people get healthcare AT ALL.
Obamacare was crafted by the Heritage Foundation of Project 2025 fame and refined by Mitt Romney and the republicans fought it like we were declaring a Stalin Day.
You wanted change, got less change than you wanted, so became indifferent to massive amounts of the opposite direction?
Nobody takes that reasoning seriously in 2026.
What bullshit sophistry allows you to equate the limitations of a moderate D senate with the outright kleptocracy we're seeing today? I am not asking rhetorically, I am reciting what you took to task before writing your comment.
Seriously. I have met Bernie to Trump people in real life. It is a real phenomon that looks for literally anything but the status quo which isnt working. So yes, lots of ex-obama people then went bernie then went trump circa 2016. The cult of maga as we know it now only really came after his election in 2016
Low information voters exist, yeah. But that's not this guy, spewing progressive shibboleths while sliding between fallacies of composition and division. He's a fuckin troll.
No there's a ton of people that just choose indifference over "better of two evils"... I personally know several (more than 10) acquaintances that swing different ways politically but when things don't go their way it's never "oh next time I'll vote for the better person" or "I'll vote in the primary to get a better candidate", they just disengage and give up voting at all...
Whether conservative refusing to vote dem or a dem being frustrated by ineffectiveness of their candidate, they all just shut down and don't want to think about changing their perspective or putting in effort toward making things better - if the choice isn't "obvious" to them (picking R or D) the effort to develop more nuanced political views is beyond them.
My parents included unfortunately; after so many years voting R because they get all of their news from the same 2-3 channels, I broke their worldview with some harsh reality and even harsher statistics - yet all they could muster was "guess I'll probably just not vote then"...
So basically itâs Obamaâs fault you and the base couldnât be bothered to oppose fascism, and maybe if Obama begs enough youâll step up and help the country. I think thatâs not so much an indictment of Obama to meâŚ
No, its nearing 60 years of Dem Neoliberalism as an ideology that helped lead us here. Obama a part of that. I voted for your corporate shills every single General, because I had no choice. But the more I did, the more I realized, that the "Pragmatic Centrists" voting for those shills, over their more progressive counterparts, had no political ideology of their own. They'll screech on end about "Left Purity Tests", but their only political litmus test seemed to be "Maintaining a cheap feeling of moral superiority over the Republicans, who they almost always allow to set the ever lowering bar the Dems barely need to stay over". Which is why they constantly claim they hate the Republicans with one hand, but will always use them as their primary weapon to silence Policy discussions with the Left with their other hand. Hence the reason why in 2024 I watched Dem Loyalists dogmatically defending their party as it actively supported a Colonial Apartheid State committing a Genocide. Rather than helping the political Left put weight on that party to try to get Harris to shift on the topic, from Biden's horrifying stances the last 14 months. Then Goldfish memory it all away like it didnt happen. All while that same party spent 4 months during the General courting NEOCONS like the Cheneys, and pushing Republican Anti-Immigration talking points.
Besides, historically, Liberalism (in the Classical and Neo sense) has never been a deterrent or counter to Fascism. It has almost always sided with Fascism over the Political Left, up until the point that Fascism threatens to impact those Liberals personally. This is due to Liberalisms DEEP associations with Capitalism. Again, Fascism is the marriage between Capital and the State. It is when Capital/Capital Interests begin to co-opt the functions of the state directly. Its the end of the game of Monopoly.
Someone does understand how they work. Someone also does understand that the president has an enormously powerful political platform in which to shape discourse on Policy. Someone also remembers that the Bully Pulpit is a remarkably powerful tool that the Dems used to weald to put pressure on said Congress to get tough legislation thru. By using that aforementioned platform to advertise for those policy stances to the Public; so the Public can throw it's weight around. Establishment Dems generally reject using this tool.
Someone also has a tendency to watch the Dems after they get into office, especially when they have a majority of the House and Senate. And so doing gets reminded of the Dems favorite "rotating villains" grift. Where, when it comes to more aggressive pro-labor legislation, there are always conveniently just enough "conservative Dems" to flip to torpedo such attempts. Always ones who are coincidentally not up for reelection any time soon; or are simply not planning on running again, and are ready for their cushy private sector jobs. This allows the Corporate Dems to "RP" their support of stances of their base; but never risk stepping in their donors toes too much. This is also why their starting lines for "Progressive Reforms" tend to be: Selective Tax Credits; Voucher Programs; and now "Abundance" (Rebranded Reaganomics). Oh and of course "Not the Republicans".
I agree with you that those on the Left are a bunch of lying cowards. Am in Full agreement.
That is why a lot of past Democrats have fled that Democrat political party.
Those past Democrats left because they know God exist and do not want to stand with or in support of a bunch of Atheist.
Everything I see from Today's Democrats is a Hate of God.
No wonder people think this is the time of Good vs Evil. So much evil comes out of Today's Democrat Political Party. I will never vote for a Democrat right now, never be in support of a Democrat right now.
Simply because the Democrat Hate God. That is all I need to know to stand 100 percent against the Democrats, no matter what. I stand with God, and will not back down one bit.
"Allowed it to happen" makes it sound like it was not Americans who voted Trump into office twice, but rather something that was happening anyway which they just failed to prevent.
Yes we failed to prevent it. I'm not talking about the people that voted for trump, who are too dense and stupid to realize they were being conned. I'm talking about the ones who voted Democrat, never demand more from my party and more importantly the 40% of the country that are too lazy to vote. Yes. We allow it to happen. Then we allowed it to happen again and failed to fix the problem. So it's on all of us. We all deserve what is coming.
Do you honestly believe that Trump moved his head? That split second, that very instance that it would have taken, so precise. God wanted Trump to be POTUS. Of course you are an atheist who believes that Ted Bundy and illegals should be allowed to break the law, that no judgment should take place.
To me, your thoughts are that of a person who is an Atheist. That simple.
So you're just going to skip over that braindead moron Biden whom mainstream media said was fine throughout his 4 years? He flooded the U.S. with 8+ million illegals. Do you know who paid for their housing, healthcare, and welfare? Taxpayers.
Biden let in 8 to 10 million illegal immigrants in 4 years and claimed he couldn't do anything about it. Trump stopped migrants at the border cold in his first month in office. The fact that you think Biden was still a good President tells me how delusional Democrats and liberals are. But he preserved rights for men to be women, right? đ And that's all you weirdos care about.
Are you paying less on income tax now that Trump stopped them at the border?
There's an average of 42mil people on welfare currently.
There was an average of 44mil in 2016.
Approximately 10% of your income tax goes to that. So if you make 100k, your individual tax rate is approx 12.5% or 12,500. 10% of that amount is 1250 per year.
You're complaining about around $100/month if you're at 100k. An amount they'd STILL take even if there were zero illegals receiving benefits.
The vast majority of welfare recipients are American citizens living in poverty. I've personally known and worked with dozens of illegals. Not a single one ever even filed for a tax return for fear of getting caught. No insurance either. In fact they're paying into a system that they don't benefit from.
The national debt is over $40 TRILLION DOLLARS. It is borrowed money that taxpayers are assumed will repay. It amounts to $120K per American. The point is, the U.S. has FINITE financial resources. If you are allocating money to illegal immigrants, you need to cut back from somewhere else. A microcosm would be NYC when our mayor had to cut back city services for transit and sanitation so the City could spend billions renting out entire hotels for illegals.
I said: "A microcosm would be NYC when our mayor had to cut back city services for transit and sanitation so the City could spend billions renting out entire hotels for illegals."
LOL. You mean the 100+ year-old news outlet which broke the Hunter Biden laptop story? All the other news outlets including the NY Times and Washington Post wouldn't even cover it because it made Biden look bad. NPR spoke for all of them:
Donald Trump is a pedophile who has betrayed all of the US's allies, created concentration camps for illegal immigrants, started a pointless, murderous war with Iran, and repeatedly desecrated the US's cultural heritage in order to create monuments to himself. Name one way that your life has improved since Biden left office. Not a way someone else's life has gotten worse, a way your life has gotten better. You can't. But you still think this man should be King of America forever.
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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '26
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