r/Nootropics • u/anothersadmf5 • 1d ago
Seeking Advice Suggestions for compounds that can help me "get up and start doing things" now that caffeine doesn't work.
Every few months I fall into a depressive state due to burnout or personal issues. As long as I have a good routine I'm doing fine, but when I don't, I'm stuck in a "purgatory" I need to move on from, but I cant. It's anxiety-driven executive dysfunction.
For example my avoidance recently caused me to spend some 70+hrs in 1 week playing a stupid video game, which is something I don't normally do. All while ignoring work and university obligations. I have a job offer I haven't replied to... You get the point.
In the past caffeine would help me get some energy and motivation to start doing the things I need to. Now it's just causing my anxiety to worsen 10x.
I've tried theanine and it doesn't work. It gave me crazy rebound anxiety. I was on semaglutide (for unrelated reasons) and although it seems to have killed my anxiety it also wiped out all my energy and motivation. I expect SSRIs etc to be the same only with weight gain and ED.
Basically I need to take something a couple times a year for 2-3 weeks so I can get my life in order. I need energy without anxiety. Addictive stuff are out of the question as I would never trust myself with them.
Any and all suggestions welcome, from herbs to antidepressants.
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u/Nugget834 1d ago
Paraxanthine... A better alternative to caffeine. It's actually what the body breaks caffeine down into.
It's 80% of the effects you get from caffeine.. But with no anxiety or crash like you get with actual caffeine.
I seriously love the stuff and can't say enough good things about it. I especially love the mood boost along with being more socially outgoing when you take it.
Apart from that. You could try Rhodiola
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u/agentic-consultant 1d ago
I’ve taken Paraxanthine and it feels so different than caffeine. Very calm focus and energy. But I don’t understand why it feels different.
Both caffeine and Paraxanthine are adenosine receptor antagonists. So they work the exact same way. Their MOA’s are identical. Paraxanthine just has a shorter half life and isn’t metabolized by CYP1A2
Yet in studies and in my own subjective experience it feels completely different from caffeine.
Never understood this. Especially since it’s literally a metabolite of caffeine.
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u/Nugget834 1d ago
It's because paraxanthine is just paraxanthine.
Caffeine on the other hand comes with 2 other metabolites.. One is therobromine (spelling?) ( in chocolate too) and the other one is something else... I forgot the name of. These 2 are what gives caffeines negative effects.
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u/AdNo182 1d ago
Theobromine, theophylline, paraxanthine. I’ve heard theobromine is a milder, longer-acting stimulant.
I would try paraxanthine, but it seems to have not hit the UK market just yet.
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u/Nugget834 1d ago
Yeah... Its hardly anywhere. I'm in Australia.
To get mine in 200mg caps (which is what I want) I need to order from Amazon US and pay for shipping ugh.
I've also got it off iherb, but in a pre workout supplement from mind md.. It was expensive too ffs 😢
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u/DeepSpaceQueef 1d ago
i think it has less heart and blood pressure load than caffeine too, less jitters as well. I still use caffeine during the mornings early afternoon, but if I need evening focus or a boost between caffeine doses, paraxanthine is awesome, short half life and nice clean boost.
Theacrine is another good one, not as potent as caffeine but it lasts and doesn't build tolerance. it can also boost the perceived effects of caffeine and paraxanthine.
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u/ponyponyta 1d ago
Have you tried sitting and staring at a wall for an hour to calm down? Zero stimulations. So your mind can rest.
Or if that's too boring, personally I like chanting easy mantras, sorts of restabilizes my pulse to sync back with my body and mind and the environment like a metronome. It's like engaging yet low stimulation enough and I think that's what a lot of people need. I heard people describe it like knitting. Something about helping to switch to a parasympathetic nervous system. The repetition can calm you down but the active chanting keeps you locked in and remove tension/improve bloodflow gently. There's usually one of these kind of practices in any religion, like repeating the namo amitabha or chanting 1000 hail Marys, and people saying it miraculously helps them blah blah blah
If you're gonna spend few hours gaming anyways maybe you can spare one hour to try one of this
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u/dustyspectacles 1d ago
This is really good. I'm a big fan of active rest for the mind when I'm struggling to keep up and you explained the concept wonderfully.
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u/anothersadmf5 1d ago
Thanks, I think that the most reasonable thing to try, perhaps some therapy too. Zero side effects so I should probably try that.
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u/PersonalAlbatross354 1d ago
ive had a similar cycle with burnout avoidance spirals, and the thing that actually helped me get unstuck wasn’t a supplement at all. i started doing the absolute smallest version of a task, like just opening my laptop and staring at the screen until the anxiety dipped enough to type one sentence. half the battle is lying to your brain about what “starting” means
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u/agentic-consultant 1d ago edited 1d ago
If you’re able to, spend like 1-2 days drinking zero caffeine while doing absolutely nothing. Give yourself an excuse to just lay in bed those 1-2 days. You can game and scroll TikTok all day.
Then, after 2 days of this (though honestly even 1 may suffice) your adenosine receptors will be down-regulated to a point where caffeine will hit like crack again.
So on the third day, drink your usual caffeine amount and take 500mg L-Tyrosine with it (take the L-Tyrosine on an empty stomach). Plan the stuff you’ve been procrastinating on this day. You’ll have an insane amount of energy and motivation.
I guarantee you the caffeine will hit like crack.
Ideally, spend 2 days drinking your usual caffeine dose followed by a day of low-to-zero caffeine. My schedule is high caffeine Monday, high caffeine Tuesday, low caffeine Wednesday, high caffeine Thursday, low caffeine friday, and I try to not drink caffeine on weekends. This stops your adenosine receptors from getting used to caffeine.
Also, in the mornings, on days you drink caffeine, jump straight to work before your first sip of caffeine. Avoid social media and other mental stimulation like the plague. Open your laptop, stare at the screen, open some apps, move the phone, and only then start drinking caffeine.
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u/Bermnerfs 1d ago
Sure sounds a lot like ADD/ADHD. It's not always bouncing off the walls like people assume. It's the lack of executive function, laser focus on novelty (video games), and avoidance of things that don't give you the dopamine hits you are likely seeking.
I would suggest seeing a doctor or psychiatrist to get assessed and follow their suggestions. There are plenty of medication options that are non-stimulating or habit forming that you can try before going straight to methylphenidate or amphetamines.
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u/anothersadmf5 1d ago
ADD/ADHD require that the symptoms are not caused by other reasons, they must be biological and present throughout your life to a disabling degree. That's not true for me and I think a lot of people are seeking to and are overdiagnosed because an ADHD diagnosis hits the ego less than something like social anxiety disorder, depression/dysthymia, avoidant/cluster C PD etc. I do have ADD symptoms, but not always, if the mood affects you it's not ADD.
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u/Bermnerfs 1d ago
Ehh, a lot of people raw dog it when they're younger, myself included. As long as I kept my diet in check and got regular exercise, and slept 8 hours, I could push thru and get things done while believing it was "normal" to constantly have to talk myself into dealing with mundane things. I could be on point for months at a time, but always would end up dealing with a period of overwhelm and shut down that often felt like mild depression.
But as I got older, life got more hectic and stressful, it all became too much and I hit a point of burnout that caused a lot of personal turmoil. A lot of it was ignoring the ADHD symptoms I was attributing to other reasons.
Turns out, I wasn't managing it nearly as good as I believed I was. Meds + CBT + practicing mindfulness were absolute game changers. It all became so obvious how poorly I was actually managing things once I saw how life was supposed to be.
It's worth getting evaluated. We often convince ourselves we are just in a rut or experiencing something temporary, but quickly realize it was far more chronic than previously believed when we finally get that perspective change.
Just figured it would be worth mentioning, obviously you know yourself better than anyone else. I can just see some similarities with my younger self and know where that lead me.
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u/Warp757 23h ago
I don't think there's a need to try and convince someone who has said quite confidently that they don't have ADHD, that they might do. There are many, many other causes of their symptoms, particularly if they have suddenly ome on later in life. We all tend to see things through the prism of our own experience, but from what they say other causes seem more likely and ADHD would be a red herring.
They mention that caffeine is suddenly increasing anxiety, and theanine gives a terrible rebound. This strongly suggests a glutamate problem, which could be caused by increased stress, they mention an issue with addictive substances which makes me ponder if they've ever had alcohol issues. That can cause long term glutmate imbalance - it has for me and it sucks. Any past substance misuse (I'm making assumptions here of course) could also explain the problems with drive and motivation.
Unfortunately as I've found, most of the stuff that gives energy also tends to increase glutamate or anxiety. I can no longer take my ADHD meds as they really turned on me which is a great shame.
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u/notaseaotter27 1d ago
Flmodafinil or one of the other afinils
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u/anothersadmf5 1d ago
In my country afinils are impossible to get if you don't have narcolepsy and I don't trust shady online shops selling stimulants. Perhaps if I send them for testing to a lab, but if I had the motivation to do that I wouldn't need them.
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u/notaseaotter27 1d ago
"Shady online shops" my brother you are in the nootropics subreddit. That goes for half the drugs on here. Finding a reliable supplier is not hard. I dont know what country you are in but generally speaking most of the afinils should be unregulated.
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u/notaseaotter27 1d ago
And if it's anxiety driven you probably shouldn't be looking for uppers. Gb-115 is a really promising one
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u/Charlie_mathis 1d ago
Bupropion has helped me tremendously with similar symptoms to yours.
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u/RedWoodworking16 1d ago
That’s a good one too. It can take some time to build the levels in your body but I did that 5 years ago and it helped. I stopped taking them about 5 months ago when I transitioned into peptides and TRT. But it’s definitely a good place start
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u/anothersadmf5 1d ago
I've looked into it last year but I can't get past my fear of the seizure risk. If I fall and get a concussion I'm completely done for, I don't have the energy to recover from something of that sort. Quite unlikely, but still, I can't count on anyone helping me atm.
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u/Reasonable_Stage_520 1d ago
I’d seriously reconsider. Bupropion single handedly lifted me from the same state. At 150mg the seizure threshold is still very low. A lot of the fear around the medicine stems from its infancy, we know it to be way safer now
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u/Party_Candidate7023 1d ago
Seizure risk is very low with the XL formula. It got the reputation for seizures when it first came out bc it was only IR and people were prescribed very large doses that we don’t prescribe anymore.
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u/zuis0804 1d ago
I believe it primarily poses a seizure risk if you take it with other substances that process SSRI properties. If that helps at all.
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u/MamaRunsThis 1d ago
That’s why I stopped taking it, I kept reading reviews of people saying they had seizures. It also made me sleep so deep that I wouldn’t move all night, which was probably a good thing but it scared me. Other than that, it did help with motivation
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u/smashfalcon 1d ago
Oh lord don't go by that, these one in a million people write how they had a seizure online so you stop meds that are working for you? Hypochondria my dear, don't let the bastards get you down. If you're not having side-effects you're fine.
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u/Traditional-Camp-625 1d ago
Pramiracetam + citicoline works well for me. So does black maca extract (or a mix of black, yellow, and red). Both also help my wife.
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u/TechnicolorSpatula 1d ago
Do you even squat bro? I'm more into leg presses myself, but if I really push myself for a few extra reps? It's a special form of euphoria. Which I actually just got done doing. Fasted cardio can be amazing too. During my day, I feel calm but energized and focused at the same time. You can get into pre-workouts and other supps for focus and energy. That's a whole nother can of worms. It gives me a reason to get out of bed and a healthy dose of self-respect, which radiates into other parts of my life.
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u/itsnobigthing 1d ago
Oddly, a low dose of buspirone has really helped me with this. It isn’t really what it’s for, and I didn’t take it expecting this, but I did find a fairly recent study from the UK where they trialled Buspirone for motivation so it seems like it’s a known possibility
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u/RedWoodworking16 1d ago
I had the same issue. Took awhile to figure out some good stuff to take to get more energy and feel healthy too but here’s what I take now (and swear by):
Peptides like SS31, MOTS-C, NAD+, DSIP nasal spray (at night only)
If you’re a man you could try testosterone replacement therapy if your levels are low. This was a game changer. My levels were on the low low end of “normal” and I started taking a small amount each week and bloodwork says my total testosterone and free testosterone went up 3X. I feel normal again with a lot of energy.
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u/tootired2024 1d ago
Agree with other posts, but short term, some vitamin b complex drops (fastest response) or gummies might be helpful to you
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u/icebabygirl69 1d ago
Avoid SSRIs, tons of newer studies showing how dangerous, bad and permanently altering they can be. Incredibly hard meds to kick, surprisingly. I experience similar issues, i've been on stim ADHD meds and Antidepressants, every med in the book. I find i am not necessarily waiting to feel "motivated ", i'm waiting for my body and mind to be "in a good mood", in order to do, literally anything. Substances won't help, they may ease the symptoms and make you temporarily feel better but this seems to , at least from my personal experience, be a mental issue and self discipline thing. Start small, tiny tasks. Do one little thing. Act on doing something the second your mind thinks of it, almost spontaneously, before you talk yourself out of doing it. Getting started i find is the hardest part, but ignoring my urges to do things i know i need to get done throws me into some kind of freeze, opposite-of-flow state that only (even small) momentum and action can fix.
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u/tydnld 17h ago
Can you link to any of these studies showing ssris are dangerous? I’m on the lowest possible dose of sertraline and it’s working really well for me
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u/icebabygirl69 17h ago
I'm guessing you havent been on it for that long! Tons of people coming out about them and how difficult they are to stop. I have experience myself and am also in a peer-only fb group of people on them. Google is your friend here, but heres one of the numerous reports. Simple search. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC181155/
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u/Glass-Ad-329 7h ago
Unfortunately I cannot take stimulant ADHD meds because I have tachycardia. I can tolerate 1 or 2 cups of coffee, but that's it. I've found that liquid vitamin b complex gives me a boost in the mornings.
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u/Simple_Employee_7094 1d ago
it sounds more like autistic burnout. You push, you break, you burn out. The only way to get out of it is to find and respect your limits. Otherwise Nac, L theanin, cbd, and SLEEEEP
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u/Yamnaya_ 1d ago
I found that that my lifelong procrastination/avoidance was not caused by low motivation, but a sort of internal background stress feeling I constantly felt. Not anxiety or anger, just uncomfortableness.
Caffeine always made my procrastination worse, Vynnase had a very mildly beneficial effect, but NAC, L-Tryptophan, Kava root, and magnesium supplementation all did improve this significantly more than Vynnase.
Supplements that “lowered my energy”…gave me more energy to do things.
Basically, symptoms that look like classic ADHD can actually sometimes not be, and have completely different origins rooted in glutamate, GABA, Serotonin, etc.
And stimulants don’t always fix this. If your avoidance is caused by that, raising dopamine will do nothing. Probably just make you feel worse.
Some people find even Benzos or SSRI’s give them motivation because it got rid of the underlying stress they felt that prevented them from initiating (what they perceived to be) stressful tasks, it just looked like ADHD on the outside because the executive dysfunction looked similar in symptoms, but just had different biological roots.
Not telling you to take that. I’ll never take Benzos or SSRI’s personally, just describing what I’ve learned.
Nowadays, I ONLY use caffeine or Vynnase ONCE I have started a task first, because my brain has to be locked into a task first or else the stimulants just make me procrastinate , AND I have to take the other supplements I listed to balance out the stimulation so I don’t feel too stimulated.