r/Mariners • u/r4dius • 1d ago

MLB Network discusses over-fixation on analytics

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTyW41dV2/

While the Mariners aren’t mentioned by name, they certainly feel like the canonical example (or counter-example, as it were).

The point that Leiter makes about the mental impact of a potential bunt I found particularly illuminating. As in: whether hitters are forcing pitchers to be multi-dimensional — versus enabling them to zero-in on avoiding the long ball.

Like seemingly everything in modern life, that which cannot be easily measured risks becoming invisible.

Here’s rooting for the Brewers to help incept greater nuance in the sport we love, and maybe even beyond Baseball.

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u/Maximus_2698 1d ago

I'd love to hear what you think the difference is if you don't think it's the same thing.

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u/YardAdmirable7060 1d ago

Old school “platoon” = what you allege the Mariners are doing. Thoughtless vibes.

Modern platoon = based off what the data scientists decide is most optimal.

Pinch hitting Rob Ref for a much better hitter is the furthest thing from traditional baseball and analytics + analytics based on matchups are the only way to explain it.

Old school baseball you’d get 2 maybe 3 pitchers in a game. Now you are routinely getting 6 guys throwing in a single game. That’s 6 different matchups that your analytics team is gonna favor a certain player over another in.

You’d also never take out a “better” player for a “worse” player based on tradition/vibes.

A front office now specifically builds their roster around these practices… as we’ve unfortunately seen it comes with varying levels of success. Every team does this and it’s not just left/right anymore either. The wealth of data is insane.

This idea was apparently so revolutionary they wrote a book and made a movie about it. It was hardly widespread even 20 years ago.

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u/PrinceOfPuddles ‏‏‎ ‎ 13h ago

That's just the no true Scottsman fallacy, just because it's ineffective doesn't mean it isn't under the same umbrella. Saying it's only a platoon if it works and both players are good and if you think otherwise you have no idea what you are talking about is a wild take.

Besides, trying to split things cleanly into either old school vibes and modern analytics with no crossover is a fruitless endeavor. Pulling Raley while he was hot to get him out a matchup he has struggled with is an analytics move, but batting your worst hitter, the worst hitter the organization has ever had, in the leadoff spot is about as vibes based as you can get.

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u/YardAdmirable7060 12h ago

It’s not about effectiveness at all. I don’t know where you got that from.

Not sure if that fallacy is applicable here. Unless you think that 1930s teams were also using advanced sabermetrics and predictive analytics to determine optimal matchups? Or were they actually doing something different?