So, I want to add Lee sin to my champ rotation. I main xin zhao, second talon, and now I want to play as Lee sin. What kind of playstyle is most optimal? For xin zhao, I usually go bruise/AD, but I've seen some people say go the more lethality assassin build.

No seriously. Who the fuck in low, mid and high elo thinks Lee Sin is 'so OP' in the current meta??? They even put in the note to say he's '2 of the strongest junglers'. Are we being for real right now? This champ requires so much skill that you need to be wise in using your Q, know how to find the right kick angle, manage your energy usage, avoid random kicks, how to maneuver around with your W and Q, avoid the Q hitting minions, and so many more that you need to keep in mind during team fights. It's not like some braindead champ that you just RANDOMLY SPAM abilities and still kill enemies or get triple to penta kills easily.

And it's not just the nerfs to Lee Sin, but also the items. Sundered Sky was nerfed and now it's not even on a build recommendation when looking at guides.

I swear the group behind making the nerf lists, one of them for sure got wrecked so fucking hard by a Lee Sin player during a match. Like the Lee Sin player did a Chinese insec combo kick on the dev's balls under tower with full HP and got demolished. So he got that rage within him, went into the office room and blurted out, "YO GUYS. WE NEEEED TO NERF LEE SIN AGAIN!" And the nerf team just casually agreed. Like do any of them even play Lee Sin a lot? Most likely no. They don't even understand how frustrating the champ already is.

There is no way you only nerf ten (10) damage from QIYANA's Q of all champs and then take away 75 damage and %hp damage from Lee's ult and a full second on his escape.

its actualy over bros 💔

I'm currently a 3m mastery points, Master Lee Sin. I've been Dia for like 4 years so I have to say..

This is genuinely one of the worst decisions riot has ever made. Totally disagree this is required.

Yep let's remove a large part of Lee's Skill Ceiling by not letting him deal bonus damage for kicking a tank into a squishier character??

So Lee Sin can now Collision Kick a level 1 Twisted Fate into an adc or a 50k hp Cho'Gath and it'll deal the same damage.

My opinion of Collision kicks is that they are definitely undervalued in riots eyes. They are difficult, use up resources, can throw the game, require a lot of skill. ESPECIALLY if you are kicking a Tank (The role that typically has the cc).

This nerf not only limits playmaking, decision making and versatility, it just straight up removes ALL reward.

Collision Kicks typically require using W or Flash unless the team lines up for you. I don't see how nerfing it this much is a good idea when it already uses an expensive resource.

This is YET AGAIN another nerf based around the top 0.0001% of players. Not thinking about anyone else. I also feel this nerf is focused on Lethality Lee Builds but instead of nerfing lethality they'd rather gut Lee Sin.

I'll admit Lee is strong, it's one of the rare times he is genuinely strong.

This is way over the top.

IMO people don't tend to be frustrated when Lee is strong BECAUSE

A bad Lee Sin will stay bad at Lee Sin.

How to fix:
Nerf his ult base damage.
The W nerf is fine. Even I feel like I'm committing acts of god a bit too often on Lee at the minute.

Both of these nerfs would then take away a lot of his dueling and reduce his survivability.

They SHOULD
Buff the %hp damage. This gives Lee a minor buff in team fights. Forcing people to adapt further and play his High Risk/High Reward style. Removing his %hp leaves us with ZERO reward.

Riot HAS to revert this because Lee will be unplayable for the near future.
They're forcing Lee into an Insec bot and bottlenecking skilled players.

I genuinely believe jungle will just end up with people spamming Shyvana, Talon, Evelynn and Rek'sai and I believe their winrates will skyrocket.

These champs are currently as broken as Lee Sin and aren't being touched.

After the nerf of the last patch we all agree that lee sin was absoulutely killed but any of you are still going to play him?

It can be changed but as of now its this, idk why but okay riot

Its not a secret Lee Sin has been top tier for the enitre year, so its kind of odd you guys are upset that hes gonna have to go 1 patch without being top tier and u burst into flames, if his WR goes down i dont think its due to the nerfs but simply..Lee mains are so used to him being broken that when hes not it feels weak. Lee Sin mains, do better

R will deal an astonishing 171 dmg with the supposed god lee scenario of 18 lethality first item on a level 6 jayce with steelcaps 168 with the eclipse classic

jax third hit with just sheen and W deals around 216 vs steelcaps

cheers

I’m currently with 300k mastery points with Lee, but i don’t feel like i’m a really good player yet :/

I feel like I’m not ganking/playing early game enough to really impact because i’m always concerned about dragons/grubs and not get invade

About matchups: which matchups do you guys thinks are the best and the worst for Lee?

What do you guys think? Some advice? :)

Why not?

As the title says, coming from a guy that LOVES bruiser builds, I think bruiser lee sin has been completely outclassed.

Specifically, I think going conqueror over electrocute is just mindlessly following an outdated build, the new meta is so late game focussed and damage heavy that realistically any advantage conqueror may have provided in the early skirmishes just completely disappears post 20 minutes (and closing games pre-20 minutes is just not realistic anymore) because you will just get oneshot before you can fully stack it.

Electrocute instead offers a big enough damage addition to REALLY make lee feel like the early game menace he should be, allowing him to finally deal with some very problematic matchups, and also allows you to access amazing runes that normally you wouldn't run with conqueror (sudden impact, ultimate hunter and especially the trinket haste rune which makes buying control wards almost optional)

Unless the enemy team is genuinely all tanks/bruisers there are virtually zero scenarios where you should go bruiser over lethality/full damage.

Bruiser lee sin is a jack of all trades master of none, but in the worst way: you don't have enough damage to one shot carries, you don't have enough durability to survive said carries, you don't have enough sustain to beat another bruiser (playing bruiser into ANY stat checker is MISERABLE), you scale terribly and if you're not 5 kills ahead you just don't get to play at all.

Full damage electrocute build fixes almost all of these problems and especially the last one: not only do you have enough damage to one shot carries, but due to how disgustingly high damage outputs are this season, you get to just beat the hell out of bruisers as well.

You also become more slippery and get to take full advantage of lee sin's mobility without running out of energy because instead of going constantly in and out, or having to stick to the target continuously to finish them off, you get to just delete them almost unreactably and then dip back to safety waiting for your Q to come back up and finish the fight with your team.

Going back to the comparison, personally I've always found that, bar some cases when lee was actually meta, the bruiser build struggled to really 1v9 unless genuinely like 10 kills ahead, but assassin lee just snowballs out of control and much more easily opens options for shutdowns when behind. He also scales incredibly well and is surprisingly easy to survive with compared to the past.

For reference, the build I'm using right now is Electrocute with triumph and alacrity - Bastion breaker, omnivamp boots, voltaic cyclosword, LDR and lastly optional defensive items like maw, DD, GA or occasionally a very helpful serpent's fang.

Ever since sundered sky got nerfed to the ground, i as a master lee sin player dont know what is even good to build. eclipse into black cleaver doesnt feel right, voltaic is nice but you have to go lethality+crit. full bruiser is just ass. i need words from others to translate my thoughts

Hit d3 last split bel otp. E4 tf otp. Hit e4 otp Lee this split. Looking for a duo Lee when playing mid mainly tf. Don’t play mid much but I’m probably mid emerald on TF.

Drop your ID if interested. I have multiple accounts so I don’t really know which one to leave

Add my discord: burgerman926

Just wanted to know. I've played both crit and lethality. I like both and I also have a problem with both. Lowkey wish brusier was a bit better and I wished they changed his shield scaling to bonus hp or something I have no idea what he has ap scaling.