r/Edinburgh • u/Broad-Sorbet3446 • 1d ago
Discussion Anti-social behaviour - responses from MSP, MP and councillors
Edit: As requested, I've made a template from the email I sent. It captures the substance of my email, but of course feel free to amend it accordingly to your taste and I hope it's useful - template link
I thought this might be useful to share following the spate of incidents posted on here relating to anti-social behaviour.
I witnessed one such incident and have a friend that witnessed another. Both of which were of the same nature to what's commonly posted here and appalling (and quite shaking) to see in person.
So we contacted the MSP, MP and councillors relevant to where we live.
The emails were sent on September 07.
The emails highlighted various recent incidents (including the ones we had seen personally), gave links to online sources (including footage/news articles with footage of some of the incidents), and requested:
- Their views on the incidents
- What action they have taken to date to stop ASB
- What action they are continuing to take (given the problem subsists)
In case it’s of interest, I’m sharing their responses, which can be found using the following links.
(Note that each of their responses have been saved into view-only Google Docs as this was the cleanest and quickest way to share them while removing personal data. I've also only kept their personal data to identify the representative in question and any other officials they refer to (such as the police inspector mentioned) - I've removed all other personal data from their side, such as names and email addresses of their staff who were involved in the replies.)
- Lorna Slater (MSP) – no response received (there was an automatic reply confirming receipt of the email, but there has been no further reply. I have also checked my Spam folder.)
- Tracy Gilbert (MP) – response link
- Finlay McFarlane (Councillor) – response link
- Margaret Graham (Councillor) – response link
- Joanna Mowat (Councillor) – response link
- Claire Miller (Councillor) - response link
I think it’s worthwhile for everyone who sees the violence and broader ASB as an issue to similarly contact their representatives and asks them to explain what they’re doing to resolve this.
Even though they have responded to me, I also don’t intend on leaving that as the matter closed. Ultimately if the ASB continues, then (at least from my perspective of being an Edinburgh resident) it’s only right that I continue to ask them what they’re now going to do. As I don’t want to simply put up with people being assaulted and the lives of local businesses and staff being made hell just because I'm not being directly impacted by it.
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u/Broad-Sorbet3446 1d ago
Another strand to this that I didn't want to go into in the main post as I don't have the data yet, but seeing some comments it's probably worth mentioning.
Various comments are speaking about whether reports are made to the police or whether someone just makes an online post about the incident. I have no idea how to tell how much is under reported, but I'm sure it must be happening.
At the same time it will be happening the other way - individuals and businesses that don't use Reddit will be making police reports, so we never hear about them (unless it makes the news).
So either way, I'd be surprised if the police didn't consider there to be an ASB issue even if there is an element of under reporting.
But the other strand which is relevant to this is that I have an FOI request with Police Scotland relating to ASB-related offences within the city centre and surrounding area. This includes the number of reports and what the outcomes have been and why (e.g. if the crime report was closed without action, for what reason?). And that also includes the number of reports against the same individuals.
Police Scotland have been very difficult in releasing this data, to the point where they said in various aspects it doesn't exist (which is obviously nonsense), and then asking me to pay a substantial sum of money to proceed for them to do the work to release the data that does exist.
I pushed back and explained that can't possibly be the case, as how are they doing all of their local targeting that they referred me to? What data are they using to know where to target resources if not crime reports and their statuses? And surely they must be tracking within their system what the status of those reports are? Why would it take someone an enormous number of hours to extract this from a database?
To cut a long story short, they failed to answer my response, and we are now over 1.5 months beyond the FOI deadline and I still do not have the data. Which I know exists as it's basic crime report statistics. I'm in the process of escalating it for a review to try and force them to release it.
Just to be clear, I don't think there's anything nefarious here at all. I'm sure it's just overstretched resources and incompetence. But obviously it's not very reassuring, and it does make you wonder how good their 'helicopter view' of the situation is when they can't seemingly find a way to access data of this kind!
I'll post more about it once I have the data.
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u/RisingBlue666 1d ago
I had the police at my door enquiring about a stolen vehicle in my carpark few weeks back and I took the opportunity to ask them about the incidents that were happening at the time.
They were very much aware of it but said their hands are tied because of the government policy doesn’t allow them to really do anything and essentially it pisses them off too.
They seem to advise that we should report to each respective party. Probably explains why nothing meaningful changes because they’re not even singing from the same hymn sheet.
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u/MagicAcorn 1d ago
More visible police presence is one part of the issue but I'd also question why there is no discussions on the lack of repercussions and diversion for the offenders.
Until the Scottish Government recognises that the SCRA, UNCRC, whole-system- approach is not working as intended, then you could have hundreds of police acting as glorified taxi drivers for youths that do not face the consequences of their actions.
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u/Klutzy_Leopard8194 1d ago edited 1d ago
the SNP have basically removed all repercussions, one of the councillors states this has been an issue, and they are investigating the removal of free bus travel as a lot of the troublemakers apparently bus in from elsewhere, which a lot of people here hypothesised was the case so interesting to have it confirmed
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u/iwillfuckingbiteyou 1d ago
Removing free bus travel does nothing to solve the problem, it just shifts it out of affluent/touristy areas.
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u/elohir 1d ago
Yeah, exactly. It's good to prompt them, but I can't see what any of the people can realistically do about it.
Scotland's prisons are already 10% above the total intended capacity, and that's after early releases, and another quarter of that on remand. We have a 10k+ courts backlog.
At the same time, Edinburgh's population has increased more so than anywhere else in Scotland iirc, reported crimes have gone up, but police officer numbers have gone down. On top of that they also have the deal with the fringe/xmas/hogmanay/protest/games crowds. On top of that, police funding per head (accounting for inflation) has gone down, and overtime's being cut as well.
We're bursting at the absolute fucking seams, but it's systemic. Feral gangs of neds running about with impunity are just one of more public-visible signs.
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u/Klutzy_Leopard8194 1d ago edited 1d ago
Many thanks for sharing this, was genuinely really interesting
is there a standard complaint we can all submit, it might be lazy but it might encourage people if they can just copy and paste something and send an email.
It is interesting that the number of incidents reported on here doesn't match amounts reported to the police, I have always assumed a lot of them are just karma farming because of how vague they are and how often I see similar posts in subreddits for other places I have a connection to. They always follow the same format "<someone threw a thing at me> on <high street>, is <place> always like this?" and they never have a comment history in the sub and never post additional comments
Not at all surprised Lorna Slater didn't respond, have heard she is an awful MSP in terms of actioning anything real, plenty of time to fanny about in Antartica though
It is encouraging at least that all the others are aware (and most claim direct experience) of the issue and are bringing it up to police leadership
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u/Broad-Sorbet3446 1d ago
You're welcome and pleased it's useful for others to see.
I didn't use a template, but I don't mind redacting and streamlining what I sent into a template so others can use it to send something similar. I should have time to do that a little later today and will update the post when I have.
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u/Twatatron 1d ago
You post is a great compilation of responses. Well done and if you can do that template it would be greatly appreciated by many!
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u/kirbyoshi78 1d ago
Tbf reporting to the police is pointless- the little shits are likely under the age of criminal responsibility. Personally I’d always report solely for them to have the intel, but you can’t see why people don’t bother.
Even if the kids were old enough, the criminal justice system flat out refuses to punish under 25s for serious offences, let alone (what is perceived to be) petty ASB. Which is weird given in Scotland you’re classed as an adult at 16.
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u/Ok_Temperature_5502 1d ago
I think this response though proves that reporting to the police isn't completely pointless, even if they can't do anything about the specific incident? You can't expect law enforcement and MSPs to act on something that isn't reflected in the data and official paper trail. I think that makes it worth reporting
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u/kirbyoshi78 1d ago
The point is law enforcement can’t enforce the law. They’re under the age of criminal responsibility. They don’t have the resources to pursue lines of enquiry to say, go give their parents a word about the kids’ behaviour.
Obvs I agree on the data point. But it’s frustrating as a “victim” to report stuff continually when you know nothing’s going to be practically done to stop the behaviour.
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u/Ok_Temperature_5502 1d ago
Yeah absolutely, I totally get that. I thought the comment about the number of police reports not matching was interesting because it highlights the fact that people should report incidents anyway.
But i totally agree, as a victim it must be really frustrating and painful to go through the whole rigmarole of reporting it, knowing likely nothing will happen.
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u/NotOnYerNelly 1d ago
It’s not true. As much as I like to lambast the police as much as the next person. Without the reports, they can’t build a pattern or strategy to catch them.
I work in the city centre and work closely with Essential Edinburgh and has had some positive results but a lot of it stems off of building a bigger picture for the police by reporting incidents. It’s slow but so is catching people in the act. I also know they have started to track some of these masked idiots back to their homes.
How the Scheme Works:
The Radio Link: Participating retail stores on Princes Street, George Street, and the St James Quarter are given two-way digital radios.
Real-Time Communication: If a shop experiences shoplifting, anti-social behavior, or spots suspicious activity, they "radio it in" to alert nearby shops instantly.
Police & CCTV Integration: The radio network is linked directly to the City of Edinburgh Council’s CCTV hub and Police Scotland's Retail Crime Taskforce. The CCTV team tracks the suspects in real-time across the city and guides police officers directly to them.
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u/kirbyoshi78 1d ago
FWIW I’m not lambasting the police. They do a great job with fuck all resources. It’s the government I’m angry at for refusing to acknowledge that kids can and do commit crimes and they deserve to suffer consequences as a result
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u/GingerSnapBiscuit 1d ago
"Hey this sort of stuff keeps happening, why won't anyone do anything?"
"Have you reported the problem?"
"Have I fuck, I was just hoping it would magically get fixed out of nowhere".
And people wonder why nothing ever changes.
Even if these kids won't get criminally charged, reporting it adds your report to the stats of criminal reporting in the area, when that looks bad enough politicians/police will need to do something, or actively justify not doing something. If nobody is reporting anything it doesn't look like there are any issues, so why would the police bother putting on more patrols?
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u/Neo-Cubism 1d ago
Age of criminal responsibility is 12 in Scotland.
There is clearly a country-wide directive not to pursue criminal enforcement.
The local council also have tools at their disposal, which they also refuse to use.
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u/Klutzy_Leopard8194 1d ago
yep, SNP mental gymnastics, vote at 16, drink at 18, commit crime consequence free until you're 24
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u/weaver_on_the_web 1d ago
BORING. Turning social issues into a vehicle for your tribal politics just makes you the cunt. (No, I'm not an SNP supporter - just detest how twats like you ruin public discourse about serious issues.)
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u/Klutzy_Leopard8194 1d ago
I just want elected officials to do their job, somehow the SNP have had power for 20 years, so naturally its them I am calling out
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u/flywithstephen 1d ago
Well I am, or should say, WAS an SNP voter and I no longer will because of their stupid “welfare led” reforms for under 25s. They’ve castrated the police and the justice system and they need to pay for it.
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u/FatalCakeIncident 1d ago
Same here. It's a pity, really. I've always voted for SNP and Greens, but their persistent failures have really put me off them. I want parties which make my life easier and the environment around me nicer, that's all. Neither of them appear to have any interest in either of those things, unfortunately.
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u/kirbyoshi78 1d ago
No I think it’s more that the SNP buy into the TikTok pseudoscience nonsense that your brain isn’t fully developed until you’re 25 and as such you couldn’t possibly be properly responsible for a criminal offence. I won’t get into the ins and outs of youth offending/prison etc. but there needs to be some consistency in treating those aged 16+ as adults if that’s the benchmark we’re setting in Scotland.
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u/Rh1972 1d ago
They appear to be so selective with the 25-year-old thing.
If you can’t be held responsible for criminal actions, then until you’re 25 you also can’t be considered responsible enough to …
- drive a car or van, or fly a plane
- join the military
- bring a child into the world and raise it responsibly
- vote
Cherry picking does not help. If you want to treat 16-year-olds as adults, the give them those benefits AND CONSEQUENCES.
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u/kirbyoshi78 1d ago
Marriage for me is the most frightening one. It isn’t just a “piece of paper”. It’s a legally binding contract. You are financially tied to someone. It was actually gypsy traveller women who brought about the changes to the law in England after many of them were married to much older, abusive men when they were just 16.
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u/Neo-Cubism 1d ago
I’ll say what I’ve said previously but also refer to my experience of reporting it to the police.
1) Giving out free travel to little scrotes who then (for lack of better word) invade City centre is not a good idea. I don’t know what’s the solution for this as I don’t want vast majority of youths demonised or have their free travel revoked because of a few idiots. But perhaps revoking free travel to those caught participating in ASB.
2) Processes already exist such as ASBOs to ban these youths from being in the City centre where most of this behaviour happens. What is the reason they are not used by the authorities - perhaps this question can be asked.
3) When I have reported ASB, the police give you a reference number and don’t attend. On 3 separate occasions the police never attended. I wouldn’t discourage anyone from reporting but the police explanations oh we don’t know anything about it if you don’t report it - but they in my experience don’t deal with anything I’ve reported.
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u/xX_Eolsa_Xx 1d ago
The polis are as useful as a knock on the heid. I honestly doubt they'd act if they saw the youths wi knives and murderin someone
Seems as they have this notion they aren't responsible for dealing wi the wee cunts, and frankly I'm hoping they just mess wi the wrong person one o these days and get a tough lesson learnt
Cops won't be a fuck all of a help
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u/Good_Lettuce_2690 1d ago
There needs to be at least 2 police patrols at peak hours on Princes Street, the gardens and in St James, and during school holidays/weekends probably 3.
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u/GingerSnapBiscuit 1d ago
And there likely will be if the police receive a suitable number of reports about criminal behaviour in the area. But as this thread proves, too many people think reporting "isn't worth the bother".
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u/xX_Eolsa_Xx 1d ago
Aye right, the fuckwits couldna be arsed to arrest someone if they shot a gun off the castle walls in front of anybody
Polis in this country are against doing the bare minimum of their jobs, reporting won't change that - hell, you'll find yourself arrested for saying the wrong word in their earshot should they even bother showing up
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u/forgottenendeavours 1d ago
No surprise to see Lorna Slater not bothering to respond. She's an absolute waste of space, and she really needs to be jettisoned from Scottish politics. Her (forced, by virtue of it being put to her on a live TV debate) response to safety issues in Glasgow was pathetic too, resorting to gasps of shock and horror at the question of gangs of shitbags in Glasgow city centre, and dismissing it as being simply racist, with zero acknowledgement of the problems that people routinely face. She seems reasonably decent at environment-related issues, and I like her for that, but she gives no indication of giving any sort of a shit about the people who live and visit here.
Good to see the responses from the others, though. Finlay McFarlane was my favourite of them. Let's hope the meetings and complaints help us get somewhere.
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u/sapphire-coast 1d ago
Yup, I know many people who have had interactions with her and all of them pretty much say the same thing as well.
I've found Finlay McFarlane to be very good whenever I've been in touch with him.
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u/Klutzy_Leopard8194 1d ago
I genuinely think she wouldn't be able to name three streets in Edinburgh if you asked her
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u/Ok_Suggestion5523 1d ago
Agreed, I don't know what the fuck she spends all day doing but it appears to not be the job she was elected to do.
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u/forgottenendeavours 1d ago
I did a quick google, and Lorna Slater's actual activities seem a common mystery.
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u/Chu-Chu-Nezumi 1d ago
And you do know what’s happening in Glasgow?
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u/forgottenendeavours 23h ago
Er, it's a 50 minute drive from the door of my current place in Edinburgh to my previous place in Glasgow. Do you think it's an unknowable foreign country or something?
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u/Chu-Chu-Nezumi 23h ago
Not unknowable but unknown to you. You don’t live here and I do. The amount of propaganda being spread is ridiculous and you’re buying into it.
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u/forgottenendeavours 23h ago
Okay. I'll pretend not to have seen the groups, to not have seen them attack people, to not have been warned about them when I've been shopping there, etc.
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u/Chu-Chu-Nezumi 23h ago
You’re definitely doing a lot of pretending.
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u/forgottenendeavours 23h ago
Yes, mate. Because everyone who doesn't agree with you is lying, obviously.
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u/User-Name-3886 1d ago
Does Lorna Slater ever actually respond?
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u/Mission_Aside_498 1d ago
The response from Finlay McFarlane is better, seems to be actually aware of how bad the issues are in central locations like the station. I’m kinda pissed at the responses that kind of say “may of these only incidents weren’t reported to police”, when I’m sure plenty have been reported and it’s still a continuing problem, as if there’s a magic number of reports that they want before they get off their arse to give a shit
I’m hoping Lorna Slater actually responds though, it would be shit if she just downplays it, she does seem really out of touch at times
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u/GingerSnapBiscuit 1d ago
as if there’s a magic number of reports that they want before they get off their arse to give a shit
Thats... exactly how policing works. One report of some wee arsehole being a wee arsehole does nothing. Consistant reports of wee arseholes CONSISTENLY being wee arsesholes shows a pattern, which may result in a high police presence in that area.
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u/Mission_Aside_498 1d ago
I think my point was a bit misleading, I think that there’s already consistently a huge amount of reports on these occurrences to police but they’re still not taken seriously, and that there’s an excuse of a certain unknown magic number not being hit so that people in power don’t need to take any action that will resolve these issues
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u/GingerSnapBiscuit 1d ago
Everyone "thinks" that. Its the bystander problem but for reporting. Everyone thinks "surely someone else is reporting this" so nobody bothers reporting it.
Police aren't allowed to just "ignore" things. The number of reports they get about certain types of crime comes up in reporting they publish, in reviews of policing levels etc.
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u/Tammer_Stern 1d ago
In the police reply to Margaret Graham they say they’ve not been informed. Can I ask everyone to phone the police when witnessing these incidents. It is a pain todo it, but I’ve found that the non emergency line is quicker to answer late at night.
[Several of the (Reddit etc) incidents described have not been reported directly to Police Scotland, based on the information currently available to us.]
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u/bigsmelly_twingo 1d ago
crime in progress - 999 (assault , motos , shoplifting, violence, intimidation)
even suspected crime in progress - 999
the call handlers will prioritise.
Don't be shy at ringing 999
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u/TooLongDugong 19h ago
Yes even if it's something like vandalism where nobody is in danger. (Although if you call 101 they can pass it on to the emergency people, the problem seems to be that nobody answers 101.)
https://www.scotland.police.uk/contact-us/non-emergencies/frequently-asked-questions/
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u/mike888881 1d ago
I love their annoying logic! So if everybody witnesses a murder and nobody reports it, the murderer will be free as a bird.
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u/Tammer_Stern 1d ago
I guess if a body is never found and nobody reports a murder or someone missing, then yes they would be.
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u/Kaffrogato 1d ago
How is that annoying? Yes, if no one reports a crime or a body, most commonly nothing will be done.
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u/mike888881 1d ago edited 22h ago
The idea that Margaret needs to have crime numbers when talking to the police. She was speaking to them about residents' concerns, and the police should be taking her word for it and getting themselves down to Princes Street for regular patrols at the times and places described, instead of asking for crime numbers or it didn't happen. With their attitude, it's no wonder those neds are still at it.
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u/Tammer_Stern 22h ago
This why I would recommend reporting everything on 999 or 101 as appropriate. It’s utter bullshit that 101 takes so long to answer. It feels like a deliberate attempt to stop people reporting crimes.
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u/Apprehensive_Room29 1d ago
Given the Police Scotland responses here, it's probably a good idea for folks to start including the crime reference numbers when reporting these things, and sharing their story on this sub.
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u/Red_Brummy 1d ago
Great start OP; this is exactly the type of thing that can be done (after reporting any crime to the Police) as a follow up action.
If every single feral youth / bam / ned post on here was followed up by multiple emails to all relevant politicians it would slowly start to sink into their consciousness. This is especially true as the Police Scotland response makes reference to crime incident reports which can be quoted, assuming the crime has been recorded.
If you don't know which politician, MP or MSP, to write to, use Write to Them. You stick in your postcode and it will generate a handy email list for you to write to all of them at once.
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u/Superb-Draft 1d ago
Thank you for doing this. This is exactly the kind of thing we need. I think really there has to be some kind of residents public safety group set up to keep pushing this issue. Anyone who is prepared to set something like that up will have my full support.
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u/KarIPilkington 1d ago
This is good stuff, actual action being attempted and highlights the need to report these things when witnessed. Even if you think the police won't do anything, there's more chance of them doing something if it's been reported than not.
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u/SnakePlisskien 1d ago
In another thread I saw someone suggest to use https://www.writetothem.com/ - I alredy sent out messages to councillors, MSPs and MP calling for action.
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u/SnooAvocados9538 1d ago
Remember you also have regional MSPs, not just the one for your constituency?
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u/Nategg 1d ago
Lorna Slater (MSP) – no response received (there was an automatic reply confirming receipt of the email, but there has been no further reply. I have also checked my Spam folder.)
Doesn't surprise me : https://x.com/staylorish/status/2097296248306864514?s=20
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u/bigsmelly_twingo 1d ago
Also, interesting to see the detail of the various responses. It informs how i will vote next time
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u/ExpensivePen8055 1d ago edited 1d ago
What a world our namby-pamby leftist devolved parliament has created! People having to write to MPs, MSPs and councillors because they're scared to give a few 13 year old widos a cuff round the ear.
Bring back the 1980s. This Brave New World is shit.
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u/cloud__19 1d ago
I do sometimes think these posts should be accompanied by a crime reference number, partly so that other people can provide additional evidence/statements and partly to show that it actually has been reported.