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It's one thing to say "I don't enjoy speedruns of non-platforming games," but that's not what you said. You came off as super aggressive for no reason, and kinda got called out for it. God forbid someone push back on your bad take.
That will vary from person to person. I think RE4 (either version), RE2 (original), or RE1R absolutely take the top spot and my answer change on any day really. But then you've got RE3 (original), RE5, Code Veronica, RE7, RE9, RE2R, RE1 (original), and Village. And I feel strongly about all of these in a very positive way.
But either way, this series is usually rebuilt for replaying and speed running. Go back to when RE2R and RE4R came out and the speedrunning community were obsessed with looking at all sorts of shortcuts and strategies to bypass entire sections and improve their finishing time.
I remember how busted grenades and RPGs could be in RE4R, wherein you could use them to destroy/damage certain parts of the environment and skip sections. The boulders in the mines in RE4R that you blow up with dynamite? Nope, an RPG will clear that mess up. Or in RE2R, wherein getting Claire down ro caution health status caused her to move much faster.
The bloke implying that all of this is lame is just crazy. It's so much fun seeing a game pulled apart mechanically like this and seeing how rich it is for speedruns. Capcom designs their games with a purpose. Hell, DMC V has the Cavaliere skip wherein you can do an aerial attack loop with it you just keep going up higher and you skip a long area and can make your way straight to the Uruzen boss fights as SDT Dante.
Yeah, people do get cringe over small things like a minor disagreement. I think speedrunning be fun but I believe the game has to have a mix of skill alongside going with the speed, hence platformers as being faster/more efficient is genuinely respectable and interesting.
I think playing a horror game to ignore the horror is just pointless.
If you ever watched a speedrun, it's quite impressive. The mechanics and knowledge to run the game as fast as you can is something that most ordinary players can't do.
I think you’re the stupid one? It’s literally an achievement like it’s spelled out ‘fastest time to beat a game’. Not everyone wants to keep playing the game at a normal pace everytime they best some people want to try something different to keep their interest on that game
How? Using it with two of these: Rebellion, A+R, and Beowulf- makes just about every boss a joke. And then Kalina Ann is good for crowd control (Standard enemies in Leviathan's Heart boss battle, Arkham's Eels in Arkham's boss battle).
How exactly is doing more damage more efficiently less effective for saving time? I could see Royal Guard, but speedrunners look for POSSIBLE wasted time too. They'd have to perfect RG everything they get hit by or consider any and ALL failed attempts or guard breaks to be wasted time.
I'm getting a strong feeling that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Gunslinger is effective. Not as effective as Royal Guard but it is stronger than Swordmaster. However, the skill floor to use it effectively is high. It requires a good button set-up and a lot of getting used to in using charge shots and style shots effectively.
Indeed. The power of Nero’s Blue Rose in 4 and 5? Why, that already exists, in 3, with Coyote A gunslinger gunstinger charge shot and charge shot jump canceling. BUT it is exponentially more buttons to know when to hold, mash, and press in quick succession. Quite tough.
People sleep on how the gunslinger chip damage can break the game with E&I charged shots. But like you said , there's a lot to look out for. And in higher difficulties like Dmd, you have to dodge really well and Gunslinger doesn't have a ready option for this back then. So most situations you have to rush down gunning every opponent before they can attack you while building up style.
Tbf, Nero's gun is more one dimensional, and is for utility. GS is just harder to combo with on its own, thats why in 4 it serves a better utility type style, as opposed to its 3 isolated counterpart, combos are rarer, and you rely more on dps than juggles or combos, which imo is boring
Charge shot is insane, and against Vergil it basically does what a fully charged DTE does for shield. Multilock is stupid, kalina ann (non hd version) is great
I can't talk about spiral though, it's insane in royal guard compared to GS
Funny cus if you play for effectiveness, then you lost the point of it entirely. It's about style so every style brings you just that. Neglecting one out of preference is one thing. Out of efficiency, is just an excuse
After prioritizing the more defensive styles for most of the run, I played around and found Nevan + Gunslinger to be my favorite combo. Definitely not just Gunslinger isn’t the best offensive style of the main 4, but when you’re just starting out, it’s a suicide run trying to make pre-DT Gunslinger work before you know the game does.
Guslinger has its uses, in DMC4 and 5 because of style switching, in DMC3 vanilla it’s nowhere near as useful since you can only choose one, and it’s just not as effective at killing enemies as the others
For dodging we already kinda have a system for that Trickster feels like a flashier version of the side roll and dodge unless you're wall running for style points or until you get the teleport but if theres an enemy a long distance away at that point I could just surf over to the enemy using another, grapple em with lady's weapon, use Spirals gunslinger ability, idk there's no offense that's attached to Trickster it's just flashier dodge
It's not a flashier dodge it's a better dodge, has more i frames, travels a greater distance, can be used in air and linked up to three times, that's why it's the style to go for most players pick playing for the first time, using anything besides trickster already requires a bit of skill as you'll need to defend yourself solely with the base game mechanics (except rg but obviously that one is the hardest to use).
You have a point, I should have said “some of the others”. But mobility helps avoid damage, which in turn keeps you alive to do melee damage and get away fast
sure, but at that point you've broken the game's design to the point where evaluating the individual styles as they were designed becomes irrelevant. DMC3 *doesn't* have style switching and makes you pick one at a time for a reason. Freestyle mode is basically a different game, which is why you also can only have it on or off at a save file-level in the Switch port that adds it.
I think the worst part about the switch version, aside from having to take every weapon, is you can't choose to turn it on or off. You need to make a whole other save file
If you enjoy the restrictions you can always just self-impose them, the only real difference is having to cycle through stuff instead of being a binary toggle
Yea, I get what you mean. I've got no problem limiting myself to one style while playing. Its just sometimes I really don't wanna have to cycle through the weapons when I'd rather just have 2 or 3 equipped
well, it's like that for a reason; you have to pick which "version" you're playing because one version is horrifically unbalanced to the point where you can trivialize most of the difficulties in the game. the game was never designed with style switching in mind, so when you just throw it in there, it disturbs the original design of the game.
i dunno if it was "mitigated" because you just end up with people just ignoring the style entirely, not unlike how they already do.
picking a style was basically like having a character roster and picking one of the four (six) characters. whereas style switching just ends up with a bloated movelist the majority of players still don't use.
and i'm not against style switching at all but it's a totally different dynamic of play from picking and sticking to one.
Style switching enables insane combos and even for the casual player just being able to switch between trickster and swordmaster is enough to play comfortably with both defense and offense.
I think it's very cool and I really enjoy using it, but I'm not very skilled as I only played through the game 3 times, 2 of them with Dante, and Swordmaster is easier to use.
Also I'm bad at switching weapons mid combat, specially the guns, I get all flustered lol.
Imo it's more that the Ebony and Ivory moves in gunslinger aren't that impressive and people are also very very loathe to let those go as their main guns. I run gunslinger with Shotgun and Artemis and have a blast.
Edit: same for the other staple tbh, Kalina ann moves aren't very good eiher. If these two guns are your fav in 3 then def not much reason to swap
Hard agree. Not everyone wants to spam royal guard and blitz through everything in seconds. Sure it's "more effective." But it's not nearly as engaging.
They just don't want to learn it, in 5 I tried a bloody palace run gun only and they are OP once you know how to use them. Also in 3 without style switcher you can't really do much to practice except running mission 1/2 every time
It's definitely underrated but imo Trickster and Royalguard will always be better picks because of the difficulty of the game. It's better to have a defensive option rather than another "Dante slashes/shoots the badguy"
I'm already fairly confident in my dodging ability so I only ever really used it for running on walls and overly flashy traversal. And the centipede boss
You do a really good job of selling me on it. There weren’t any awkward pauses of just spamming shoot which is what I tend to do when I think “USE GUNE MOAR”
Gunslinger has a lot of really cool moves, like the gun stinger crazy combo and wild stomp, sucks those moves only appear in 3, but at least the shotgun gets Cut-In in 5, which is probably much more fun to pull off.
The guns definitely were overpowered in 2 because they trivialized the rest of the gameplay. Especially because some boss fights cough Infested Chopper cough pretty much had to be beaten by just holding the shoot button until it died.
DMC 3's guns are more varied and melee combat is much stronger than 2, on par with guns or arguably stronger, so the whole package feels much better. Plus DMC 3's comparatively smaller arenas and faster enemies and gameplay forces you into melee more.
tl;dr guns are OP in 2 because everything else sucks, like literally the entire game
If something is OP, don't use it. It's the most idiotic complaint that this fanbase clings on to. Use it for that chopper then, uh, put it away and actually try the combos. If you think DMC2 sucks, you've never played an actual bad game in your life.
I have played plenty of bad games, plenty of good games, and most importantly, completed multiple playthrough of every single DMC game barring DmC Devil May Cry, which I have thus far not owned a physical or digital copy of. DMC2 is a bad game that sucks. It was the first DMC game I had ever played and even then I thought it was ass. The environments are so large and the game so pitifully easy that using melee just isn't fun for me, and I'd argue for most people given the fanbase's reputation of it. If you like the game, great! But DMC2 is inferior to every other game in the series in nearly every way, except maybe if comparing Dante's characterization to DmC.
And for the record, I like a lot of "bad" games. E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy is a personal favorite, along with plenty of kusoge fighting games and perhaps worst of all... Dark Souls 2 :P
I'm not sure if this is a coherent criticism, but I don't like Gunslinger because it's so self-contained. Let me explain: when it comes to melee weapons, Dante has the most tricks and options in Swordmaster, obviously, but he can still pull off different combos in Royalguard and Trickster, just not the sauciest ones (debatably, don't Judgment Cut End me). But when it comes to guns, if you want to do anything other than charge shot and pew pew, you NEED to go Gunslinger, there are no unlockable moves for guns the way there are for melee weapons. For me, at least, this gives me a big mental block in utilizing guns to their full potential, because it's hard for me to mentally switch tracks from "just shoot" to " you can suddenly do SO MUCH with the guns". This causes a nasty feedback loop, because it makes me stick to Trick->Sword with Royalguard when I'm feeling extra saucy, and only use guns to extend my/enemy airtime and keep to combo going. Say what you want about DmC, but at least you could unlock new moves for guns the same way you could for Devil Arms.
gunslinger's neat but is rarely the preferred option. though i realized on dmd there's a few places i really like gunslinger in. also E&I square+circle mash is pretty effective for stuff like jester and just in general ranged dps
Because is harded to integrate to combos. There are a few things you can do with the style alone and weapons that have good air guggles, but other than that, its hard to go from one move to another and sneak gunslinger in there (for example, you did 0 combos in the clip, just dps, and knock backs into doing a cute animation, no combos) but if you get a style switching mod, the style serves as good utility, and then its awesome, becasue you can complete the combo "phrases" that the style lacks on its own. You can do set ups with artemis, using cerberus or agni and rudra for juggles for example, but with other weapons the most you can hope is using artemis as a finisher or suspending enemies in the air and then finishing them of, but no juggles. You can juggle happily with other styles, the only one that is different is royal guard, but what makes it fun is that you can use it as a defensive tool, unlike gun slinger (parrys are meth). Most guns can be used as finishers without depending on gun slinger (like spiral or kalina Ann, even the basic shot gun shot is good for that) and gun slinger mostly only brings dps to the table, which, is not what makes dmc's combat fun, is the guggles, the other styles can play around with juggles (sword master moves set up, allow for and can finish juggles, trickster gives you movility to followup and set up juggles as well as a defensive tool to keep combos going, and royal guard can serve as a defensive tool and dps at the same time with the release moves, also parrys are meth) gun slinger on its own makes you work harder for anything interesting happening on screen, so most people choose the others, it lacks the inertia that makes your mind devolve into its more primitive monkey brain state.
Honest question: is english a second language for you? How come you keep misspelling "juggle."
As for the others I don't think you need to do a bunch of air combos to get enjoyment out of DMC1-3. You don't need it here. If you need a mod or style switch to get enjoyment of the styles in 3, you're not really appreciating how the styles you have. Besides with Trickster don't you need a lvl 2-3 in that to do that stuff you mentioned?
I loved trickster so much because I kept teleporting around like if a fight was 5 minutes long then 3 minutes was me just teleporting watching enemies crash out
It takes away very fun moves on melee weapons, it feels like being forced into a fps shooter, the only time I used gunslinger was to break away cerberus ice shield on dmd and that's it, I don't remember using it anywhere else
But it becomes so much fun when I put a style switcher mod and can add more moves into my combos
It is a high calibur sniper. It's not supposed to have as much movement as the other guns. One normal shot sends an enemy flying. With gunslinger, enemies are pelted with the same bullet for decent damage even to bosses not named Vergil and tracking for a guaranteed hit. You have to be on the ground for it but it's not like youre sacrificing too much to use it
It sacrifices movement and honestly, it seems like the worst thing for this game. Artemis is cool because you can attack while charging, and Ebony and Ivory have absurd movement and are more fun than most of Swordmaster, but the sniper rifle is just a button to deal a lot of damage, and that might make things easier, but it definitely doesn't make them more fun.
I haven't used Artemis much, but I almost always have Spiral equipped with Gunslinger. One thing it has over every other weapon it that it shoots through enemies without any damage dropoff. If you're in a narrow hallway you can sometimes hit every enemy with a single shot. Extremely useful against chess pieces, the centipede boss, and the archers. You can also weapon switch to fire faster. If you have gunslinger switching between circle and square attacks also works. It also goes through enemy guard and break their guard.
The richochet move is also the counter to those squid enemies that only appear when you're looking away because you can still shoot them without facing them.
Ah yes. Curbstomping demons while turning their spine to swiss cheese and bouncing one sniper shot off of 12 demons heads is boring. Especially compared to the style that's just a dash
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