With or without buffs, but the hashira have access to them ofc.

I put Douma & Akaza there to show the big ahhh gap between Base Gyomei and the other Hashiras.

I need the answer for something.

who wins?

Again, one of these is my actual ranking

One of these is representative of my Hashira ranking.

I’m pretty sure Mitsuri was around 17 when she passed Final Selection, meaning Shinobu was likely only 16 as well.

But even if that’s not the case, there’s absolutely no excuse you could make for this mf making KANAO and AOI boob window outfits, who were only a couple years younger than the age of 15.

This troglodyte should’ve died in Shinobu’s place.

Asking someone the actual reasons why they think Shinobu is the weakest Hashira in general combat is the ultimate litmus test and will tell you exactly who you're trying to talk to.

Like don't get me wrong, there are arguments that can be made in good faith by someone who properly consumed the manga-

You don't think she scales anywhere because her feats were on a holding back Douma? Whatever, you can still make arguments in good faith.

You don't think her feats are impressive because Douma has poor physical stats? Sure, it's still possible to make an argument in good faith.

You think Douma was just lying about every compliment and assertion he made about her? Ehhh you're encroaching on disingenuous territory but an argument is still possible.

But like, come on man. She's the only Hashira getting hit with this much skeptisim. She has data book statements putting her BARE MINIMUM relative in speed with Douma. She has assertions from Douma himself putting them realtive in speed. She has end-of-chapter statements claiming she has thrust and pushing power superior to most of the other Hashira, another end-of-chapter statement putting her thrust speed over the fastest technique in Water Breathing's entire arsenal. But this is all getting sweeped aside because she scored poorly in a race/ arm wrestling contest, can't decapitate heads, and got caught by Giyuu 4 arcs ago.

Mind you, you can make similar arguments about Obanai yet somehow he gets MAGNITUDES more grace from the fandom.

He gets bitched by Giyuu in the Hashira Introduction scene. He placed one spot above Shinobu in the arm wrestling list and got 7th in the race. He's getting tagged by Tanjiro in the Hashira Training Arc. He didn't even TOUCH his uppermoon while being aided by another Hashira (Not that this is a crazy downscale but still) (Also according to the Kaigaku downplayers she wouldn't even be that strong since she's only a replacement upper moon even though they both are more than strong enough for their positions). All this yet a lot of casuals have negative issue putting him above Mitsuri, Rengoku, Tengen, and Shinobu.

I could only IMAGINE the slander she would get if what happened to Tengen, Muichiro, or Giyuu happened to her, every Shinobu repper would be subjected to waterboard torture in the middle of town.

God forbid she went in for 2 blitz attempts on Douma while he was turned around and got reverse blitzed each time. If she went in for a thrust from behind, Douma turns around, and catches it with his fucking teeth. If she walks in and immediately gets pinned to the wall by her own sword. Or if she gets told "fun's over now" and has her sword nonchalantly broken by Douma with a smile on his face.

It's just insane to me man, it genuinely feels like a lot of people are denying gravity to argue some of these takes. You can kind of just say whatever you want about any other Hashira and people will take it with a grain of salt. With Shinobu you're fighting tooth and nail for every single inch you get and even then they might just circle back and forget everything they just heard. It's literally the Patrick Wallet meme

Kokoshibo: They Need Gyomei For this one. They all loss. But if they had Gyomei. 5 hashiras are enough.

Douma: Two Hashiras would destroy Douma. A Marked + STW + RedBlade Obanai working with a Marked + STW + RedBlade + MST Tengoon would blitz the fuck out of Douma.

Akaza & the rest of the Uppermoon demons: One Hashira with Mark + STW + Red Blade Is enough so Giyuu would be leagues above Akaza in speed with STW and every hit with red blade would render Akaza’s regen useless. As the burning rage of red blade would fuck up Akaza’s regen. And would subject him to immense pain.

Hantengu. Since The Hashiras have STW now they can basically multitask with finding the main body and fighting Zohakuten. Since they have red blade now they basically slow down Zohaukten’s regen and kill the main body.

Gyokko: Lmao, Any marked Hashira is making him a sushi no need for STW

Gyutaro & Daki:…… Marked Hashiras are no diffing their bottom feeder ahhh.

I have an arg i could never actually believe in but it gets a hashira that clearly isn't top 2 to top 2 and maybe it would be fun

Personally, I think he beats all the Upper Moons yes even kokushibo cause he showed exponential growth in the manga, but what do you guys think.

i also think he would be stronger than every other hashira by a huge margin

basically yorichii lite.

That’s it. Just Mitsuri.

Gyutaro>Kaigaku

SONdeep pls stop 😭

Dislocated arm victim btw 🥀

like say akaza comes in. doesn't use compass (because at this point it technically wasnt turned on) and just wasnt expecting tanjiro to be this fast

how does the fight play out now?

Mine is giyu,mitsuri,rengoku

Assume that Neo, as The One, can imbue his strikes with sunlight.

He is connected to the Source in Machine City and is putting his life on the line to eradicate the Demon virus in The Matrix's 1920s Japan.

The fight takes place in Infinity Castle with both sides enraged. All demons and Muzan are at full strength and have no debuffs.