Meanwhile Psalm 82 shows that God is really an action hero nerd at heart and their primary concern are people who wanna be heroes for everyone else.

Here's me fighting Jesus, just because I figure God would want a battle rival that isn't scared to punch Him in the face.

Here's what I learned in my battle.

1. El Elyon and Asherah, they made everything and they just screw around and do what they want.
2. Yahweh, he's in charge of the planet, eldest son, basically had to get rid of any worship of Asherah, because Jews got Him confused with His dad and basically said he married his own Mom, this is what is the beef between Egypt and Yahweh came from, if you know anything abotu Egyptian Mythology, they loved the mommy mommy play time.
3. Yahweh basically went from Zamasu to Vegeta blowing himself up with the whole Jesus thing, Yeah, most humans kinda suck, but a lot of humans are good, and cheering for the good guys, Psalms 82, is how Yahweh gets through all of this garbage.
4. Vegeta blowing himself up didn't actually do anything, which is why nowadays we have Epsteinites holding up the bible and tear gassing protestors in the same breath.
5. I keep beating Yahweh over the head with the fact that it makes no sense that Black people gotta defend existing in a video game about a black historical figure when Israel can just bomb whoever they want and keep getting away with it.
6. Yahweh says if I keep this up, he's gonna pull founding titan crazieness. You know, the ELDIANS, yeah, Yahweh can just activate auto kill mode, he did it to himself just to prove it would work.
7. Yahweh has killed me twice and literally had Azrael choke raise me in the air like Frieza over this , I don't care broskis.
8. Yahweh admired Abraham because Abraham had an accurate understanding of an immortal consciousness who exists in the moment. That's why he trusted Yahweh to sacrifice Isaac but still negotiated for Sodom and Gomorrah as much as possible.
9. The flesh itself is the mark of the beast, carbon, what allows us to exist as lifeforms, has 6 protons, 6 neutrons, and 6 electrons, and the average human loses their mindif they think about how they'd exist without it. That's how you try to explain the fact that humanity will eventually start eating itself to death via capitalism to explain what will happen once humanity gets to the point where they can see the signs but ignore them anyway thinking they're some kind of privileged class who will sip tea on the sidelines like a plantation owner for eternity.
10. I think I broke the rules of heaven by demanding a world MORE complicated than my human one, not less. Why would I enjoy Star Wars Knights of The Old Republic one and two and then be satisfied in a library of the novel incarnations with no video games. Yeah I know this and I mog the holy hosts by describing God and Satan as white and black orbs that follow me and they fuse to fight me like Goku and Vegeta, but I'm Super Broly plus Android 17 so they can't actually kill me, we just scale up until reality breaks. Why? Because they are infinite consciousness more interested in the guy who actually enjoys being alive in the moment and reacts with confusion when you say you offer him 'peace'. What the does that actually mean? I'm a nerd, not a soldier, your gift sounds stupid.
11. I defy you to explain why your objectively more mystical and less explainable beliefs are less insane than anything I've just said.
12. Yahweh flies into a murderous rage over other gods because minor dieties do exist, they point this out in scripture, but when your chosen people whine for SLAVERY again after you prove you're the elder God of the planet......yeah you go a little nuts.

Like this.

Hi! I grew up nonreligious and am studying biology in school I’m not trying to become religious not saying I’m close minded just that I don’t want people takin this as a challenge lol. Just curious what god means to people who are religious for a paper I’m writing. I would read religious text but I know that would take a long time and I also know many people have different interpretations
My questions:
-is there an agreed upon definition of evil or give me ur opinions on what it means to you
- is god earthly is there text on what form he possesses and how that form is made
-is there any text in what the soul is made out of
-do you believe in evolution, how does that work with the text you follow, if not tell me why that is
-what do most people believe is up to interpretation and what is not, is this agreed upon within your community
-what years were the texts you follow written how have they been altered since

I think that’s all I have for now, thank you for takin time to read this respond to any questions you would like to and once again this is all coming from no place of judgement I just am not religious and don’t really know any religious people to ask these questions to. Thankuuu! Sorry for any typos

Even in advanced pre-modern societies, the main historical figures who brought down holy texts or started massive religious movements were overwhelmingly male. One potential counterargument is that ancient societies were deeply patriarchal, meaning a female prophet simply wouldn't have been taken seriously or allowed to spread her message. However, if a message truly originates from an all powerful Divine entity, shouldn't that divinity be capable of transcending or shattering local cultural biases to choose whoever they wish?

Alternatively, does the overwhelming historical prevalence of male prophets suggest that religions are purely human, sociological constructs heavily reflective of the patriarchal eras in which they were born? I would love to hear both the theological justifications and the secular/sociological arguments on this dynamic.

I have visited many comment sections of certain subreddits on the topic of hijab ban, where the same people who defend “Christian values” are the same people who celebrate the banning of hijab as the “great salvation of Europe” (literally the same people, I have checked some accounts, it is quite amusing).

Listen, I don’t think most Christians know what Christian values are - most Christians that I’ve met and observed are extremely lukewarm and pretty much do whatever they want, so it doesn’t surprise me; they get shocked by their own scripture sometimes. But I hate that only the misogynistic religion of Islam gets flak when Christianity quite literally teaches the exact same thing.

1 Corinthians 11:

“Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.”

Is it sexist? Yes, it claims that women were created for men, that they are not the glory of God, but rather the glory of human males. Rather weird statement to make about 50% of the entire world’s population based on the random genetic lottery that they won (XX).

Is it discriminatory? Yes, it says that only women are supposed to veil the head, much like Islam. In fact, since men are so great, they don’t get to cover their hair, because they are the glory of God Himself!!1!1! Also, it is very dishonorable and brings much shame to not fit this standard as a woman, doesn’t Islam also say that this is dishonorable and shameful? Most Christian women don’t face nearly as much of a humiliation for their uncovered heads; I would say that this only due to the secularization of Christianity (which started rather early, actually, yet it was a slow process) and the rise of humanism which celebrated autonomy, freedom, equality…

Yes, obviously it goes on to say that women have something of a natural veil (long hair). Because they need one, right? Whereas men don’t, since according to Abrahamic religions, men are given authority over other human beings, especially their own wives/concubines/slaves. They are their heads and the direct glory of God Himself whereas the other half of the population which has proven to be just as capable, intelligent, creative and competent… was created for them. So they have to veil somehow!

Branches of the same tree (Judaism, where mostly married women also veil). For the vast majority of history, Christian women have veiled - at least married ones (as was the practice in many European countries). In my Orthodox country, an unveiled married woman was seen as extremely dishonorable INTO THE 20TH CENTURY. This was true in so many Christian countries into the 20th century and still practiced in some Christian communities to this day!

And yet, most Christians today critique hijab and Islam as if it’s this great barbarian evil, when literally, you used to shame women for not veiling too. Maybe in most Christian communities, the veil wasn’t worn at all times/not so strictly/only by nuns or married women (in many European cultures). And for the sexist reasons listed in the Bible (husbands are the heads of their wives, women have no authority over men, etc.).

I truly think that it is hypocritical to reject the idea of exclusive female veiling when it literally exists in your own religion; there are many Christian criticisms that could be thrown at Muslim veiling practices that actually make sense (face-veiling, veiling of very young children, harsh physical and psychological punishments for not veiling - those things, for the most part, do not exist in Christianity, but do appear sometimes in Islam). But rejecting the actual existence and core of exclusively female veiling makes zero sense to me when your religion has taught and practiced the same practice for hundreds of years. Yet I have seen Christians reject it totally or try to make it sound less sexist (it is not). Why?

This is a thesis about the abrahmic faiths, but, I will say that I am not as knowledgeable about Judaism as I am about Islam or Christianity, so If I am wrong, let me know. (I'm also not native English)

Some things and rules, god decides to enforce and put heavy punishments against make absolutely no sense.

For an infinite, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient etc, god, to decide to put in his divine word.

Commandments against gay people.

There are SO Many other things! NONE of these outlaw or say "slavery bad." In fact they regulate it.

Your telling me, somehow, this infinite being is more upset at what two consenting adults are doing instead of people literally owning other people?

I am now deeply convinced by deism and have completely rejected Christianity after having been raised Catholic.

One of the clearest reasons for my rejection of Christianity is the fact that, in the Gospel of Mark, Jesus repeatedly predicts that the Apocalypse and the coming of the Kingdom of God will take place within the lifetime of his contemporaries.

From the very beginning of his ministry, Jesus announces that the Kingdom of God is imminent:
“After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. ‘The time has come,’ he said. ‘The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!’”
— Mark 1:14–15

The message could hardly be clearer: the appointed time has arrived and the Kingdom is near. Jesus is not describing an event thousands of years in the future. He is announcing something imminent to the people standing before him.

He then makes an even more explicit prediction:
“And he said to them, ‘Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.’”
— Mark 9:1

Jesus therefore places the coming of the Kingdom within the lifetime of some of his listeners. Some of the people standing before him, he says, will still be alive when the Kingdom comes “with power.”

The prediction becomes even clearer in the Olivet Discourse. Peter, James, John and Andrew ask Jesus when the events he has announced will take place:
“As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, ‘Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?’ Jesus said to them: ‘Watch out that no one deceives you.’”
— Mark 13:3–5

Jesus then speaks directly to these disciples about what they are going to witness. The discourse culminates not merely in the destruction of Jerusalem, but in unmistakably cosmic and apocalyptic events:
“But in those days, following that distress, ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.”
— Mark 13:24–26

And Jesus finally gives an explicit deadline:
“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.”
— Mark 13:30

The sequence is remarkably straightforward. The time has come. The Kingdom is near. Some of those standing before Jesus will still be alive when it comes in power. His own disciples are addressed as the people who will witness the coming events. The Son of Man will come in the clouds with great power and glory. And all of this will happen before “this generation” has passed away.
That generation passed away.
The Apocalypse did not happen. The sun was not darkened. The stars did not fall from heaven. The Son of Man did not visibly come in the clouds with great power and glory. The elect were not gathered from the ends of the earth. The Kingdom did not arrive in the apocalyptic manner Jesus had described.
The prediction failed.
For me, this creates a fundamental problem for Christianity. Christianity asks us to believe that Jesus was not merely a first-century Jewish preacher, but the Son of God. Yet the earliest Gospel presents him making an extraordinary prediction about the end of the age within his own generation, and history proved that prediction wrong.
The simplest explanation is also the most obvious one: Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher who sincerely believed that the end was imminent. He was wrong.
And if Jesus could be wrong about something as central as the coming of the Kingdom of God, I see no reason to regard him as an infallible divine authority. On the contrary, the failed prediction makes far more sense if Jesus was a human religious preacher shaped by the apocalyptic expectations of his time rather than God incarnate.

one example is surah 9: 1_14, 26 instead of that he could have said kill the traitors wherever you find them since their religion is irrelevant and could have said leave them alone if they stopped fighting you and became your brothers in humanity since them establishing prayer and becoming your brothers in Islam is irrelevant and could have said fight them if they broke their oaths since them insulting Islam is irrelevant and could have said and he punished the disbelievers (they got killed ) and this is the punishment of the traitors since being disbeliever is irrelevant and could have said except the peaceful people since keeping the treaty is irrelevant if you never had one or if yr a peaceful person in a country that has no treaty with the Islamic country

even if you believe the bad interpretation comes from hadith still he could have be more clear that Islam is Quran only no hadith needed by not saying verses that say obey Allah and obey his messenger which many understand it to be there are extra words and commandments other than the ones Allah gave in the Quran or could have said obey the messenger but all of his teachings are in the Quran anyway and could have explained in details clearly all the teachings how to do them like how much charity how to pray pilgrimage etc

I understand you will say I misunderstood the verses but my point is that the Quran could have made itself more clear so people don't use it to harm others but chose not to which means the Quran is also an intentional cause of the harm and is blamed for it

Thesis is the title.

—

Every single hour of every day, the vast majority of us entrusts our lives and well-being, and those of our friends and loved ones, to naturalism.

When we trust in the drugs we’re prescribed, the chemicals we use to clean our bodies and environments, the infrastructure that maintains public safety, the materials we use to shelter ourselves from the elements, the technology that makes communication and financial transactions work, the safety of the food we consume, et al., we’re placing our well-being and our very lives into the hands of naturalism.

Many of the aforementioned tools and technologies are established on a foundation of naturalistic principles that are debated in a religious context, but realistically nowhere outside of that. When we look to distinguish life from non-life, consciousness from unconsciousness, or understand the basic function and nature of the universe in any other context, we have faith that the principles of naturalism will accomplish that for us. Not religion.

When a researcher develops biometric and GPS technology that allows a smartwatch to track your whereabouts and vitals, they don’t rely on God’s goodness to ground it. They rely on atmospheric science and models of thermodynamics. When we launched the JWST to explore the cosmos, we built it using our knowledge optics and cosmology.

When we pass laws, we justify them with crime statistics, demographics, and our shared cultural values. Not the exclusive moral principles of any one particular religion. When a jury judges people in a court of law, they don’t rely on 500 unknown witnesses. They rely on DNA evidence credibly established through knowledge of the natural sciences.

When the theist criticizes naturalism, and claim it’s insufficient to answer questions like why is there something instead of nothing, why the universe reflects certain qualities, or why do we as humans value certain behaviors and moral principles, they toe a very fine line and make a special case for why they are warranted in selectively accepting naturalistic methods of inquiry in some areas but rejecting it for others.

Despite accepting vastly superior naturalistic principles and models in virtually every other aspect of life.

Now, I realize that many will make the objection that different ontologies exist, and that pragmatic naturalism and metaphysical naturalism are different things. That metaphysical naturalism is not palatable because they don’t believe that natural explanations can account for every aspect of existence & experience. Which is fine.

But theists still need to justify why specific questions are exclusively under the purview of religion, and not naturalism. And it can’t simply be because naturalism hasn’t answered them yet.

Being an atheist means not believing in God who created us, but believing that everything is an accident, which is a problem. There is more proof that God exists than that He doesn't exist. As an atheist, you have a higher risk of getting into depression, and you will have more unanswered questions than answered ones.

: How does the Big Bang theory make sense, but not God? How can you believe more in Darwin's theory of evolution and that you are a monkey, but not that you were created by an all-knowing God? It is surprising that many say they don't believe in God because there is no evidence, yet the same people believe they are monkeys. This is hilarious.

Then, when you argue with an atheist about why you believe in God and try to also debate from an atheist's perspective, most of them say, "And you can't talk about my beliefs because I believe in nothing." There is nothing called "I believe in nothing" because either you believe in God, which is a belief, or you don't believe in God, which is also a belief.

Tell me, then, why are we here?

Why are there a lot of bad things happening in life?

What will happen after all this?

Note: I only respond to respectful comments—excited to hear from you!

a Christian will say why do you follow a book that says to kill ex Muslims I mean sure that is evil but your book also says ex Christians will get in lake of fire so why is the first not ok but second ok?

or a Muslim will say your book is evil because it teaches to kill children in some stories in the old testament I mean ok your God literally creates kids cancer so God has the right to create cancer killing kids slowly with it but has no right to tell a man to kill them in a second?

or when Christians might say Muhammad married a child I mean ok but Many Christians historically married as 12 years old and church fathers priests pastors were totally ok because the bible doesn't explicitly condemn it even tho it was very common but the bible and church father and priests and pastors stayed silent about it for 1500 years or something

TL;DR: Apologists say 23:14 anticipated embryology because cartilage forms before muscle. But every classical tafsir understood ʿiẓām as bones, and no mufassir read it as cartilage. If the “cartilage” reading is true, then either the Prophet didn’t understand his own revelation or he let his Companions misunderstand it, and Allah chose a word He knew would mislead its audience for 1400 years.

1. THE CLAIM

ثُمَّ خَلَقْنَا ٱلنُّطْفَةَ عَلَقَةً فَخَلَقْنَا ٱلْعَلَقَةَ مُضْغَةً فَخَلَقْنَا ٱلْمُضْغَةَ عِظَٰمًا فَكَسَوْنَا ٱلْعِظَٰمَ لَحْمًا ثُمَّ أَنشَأْنَٰهُ خَلْقًا ءَاخَرَ

“Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot (ʿalaqa), then made the clot into a chewed lump (muḍgha), then made the lump into bones (ʿiẓām), then clothed the bones with flesh (laḥm), then produced it as another creation.” (23:14)

The apologetic argument states that modern embryology shows the skeleton forms as a cartilage model, and muscle develops around it. So the verse is “scientifically accurate,” if we read ʿiẓām as cartilage or “early skeletal structure.” Some versions add that bone cells appear before muscle cells.

I’ll look at this in three steps: what the verse’s earliest interpreters said, what embryology actually shows, and what follows if the apologetic reading is adopted

2. WHAT THE CLASSICAL TAFSIRS SAY

I went through the major tafsirs on this verse (all available at quran.com). None of them says or implies cartilage

3 points:

1. No mufassir mentions cartilage. The closest thing is Ibn Masud’s “bone and sinew,” and sinew isn’t cartilage.
2. They all describe the same sequence. The mudgha becomes bones, and flesh then covers them. Ibn Ashur says explicitly that this is the formation of “the human skeleton of bone and flesh.”
3. The modern claim appears only in the modern tafsir. Tantawi (20th century) quotes “some scholars” saying bone cells appear first and flesh cells only after the skeleton. That is a modern claim added to the tafsir, not something from the earlier tradition.

The same word is used in 2:259 (“Look at the bones, how We assemble them and then clothe them with flesh”), 36:78 (“Who will give life to bones when they have decayed?”) and 17:49. In these verses ʿiẓām plainly means ordinary hard bones, including bones that have rotted.

3. WHAT EMBRYOLOGY ACTUALLY SHOWS

Roughly (timing varies by source and by how you count):

• Around weeks 3-4, somites form and begin giving rise to muscle precursors (myotomes).
• Around weeks 4-5, the limb buds appear and mesenchymal cells condense.
• Around weeks 5-6, cartilage models appear. Muscle precursors migrate into the limbs at roughly the same time.
• Around weeks 6-8, the first ossification (true bone) begins.

Two problems for the verse:

Muscle precursors appear at about the same time as cartilage, or before bone. So “bones are formed, then clothed with flesh” is not a clean match for the actual developmental order. Skeleton and muscle develop in parallel from related mesenchymal and somite tissue. There is no flesh-lump stage that turns into bones. The embryo isn’t an undifferentiated piece of meat from which a skeleton later emerges. So even the “scientific” reading needs the word stretched and the sequence loosened. (I’m not an embryologist, so correct me if I have any timing wrong.)

4. "CAN IT POSSIBLY MEAN CARTILAGE?"

The verse uses ʿiẓām, the ordinary word for bone, which everywhere else in the Quran means hard bone (36:78, 17:49, 19:4). The claim that Arabic had no word for cartilage fails: ghuḍrūf is defined in the classical lexicons as “every soft bone” (Ibn ʿAbbād, al-Muḥīṭ fī l-Lugha), and it appears in a report describing the Prophet’s body (the Seal was “at the place of the ghuḍrūf of the shoulder”), so the language of his time already had a more precise term for exactly this tissue.

Even granting this, that definition makes cartilage a kind of ʿaẓm, so the word can stretch that far. But “can” is not “does,” and if Allah meant cartilage He chose the general word, knowing the Prophet, the Companions and every classical scholar would read it as hard bone, when a precise term existed and was in use. That is the real problem, and it leads into the dilemma of what the Prophet knew.

5. THE DILEMMA: WHAT DID THE PROPHET KNOW?

If the intended meaning of 23:14 is “cartilage,” then at the time of revelation:

A. The Prophet didn’t know. Then he recited, taught and passed on a verse whose intended meaning he didn’t grasp. By his own understanding, it meant bones.

B. The Prophet knew and said nothing. Then he knowingly left his Companions with a false understanding, despite 16:44 (“so that you may explain to the people what was revealed to them”).

If the Prophet’s understanding of revelation can diverge from its intended meaning, his explanations become unverifiable. Every tafsir that relies on his explanation rests on the assumption that what he understood is what God meant. Once you grant that this can fail, you can’t say where it stops. How do we know his explanation of any other verse isn’t another “bones, but really something else”?

The same goes for the Companions. Ibn Abbas is called the “interpreter of the Quran,” and he is quoted in the tafsirs on this very verse. If he and every classical mufassir missed the real meaning, on what basis do we trust their reading of the verses on law, theology, or the afterlife?

6. WHAT THIS MEANS FOR ALLAH’S CHOICES

Ibn Kathir, commenting on 26:195 (“in a clear Arabic language”), explains that God revealed the Quran “in perfect and eloquent Arabic, so that it may be quite clear, leaving no room for excuses and establishing clear proof, showing the straight path.” Take that at face value:

1. The Quran presents itself as clear to its first audience, in their language.
2. So the meaning the original audience understood is the meaning God intended. Clarity means the intended meaning is the one communicated.
3. The Prophet, the Companions and the classical scholars understood ʿiẓām as bones, a word the Quran uses for ordinary hard bone everywhere else.
4. Therefore the intended meaning is bones.

The apologist can only escape by saying God’s intended meaning was not what the audience understood, which contradicts 26:195 directly

I keep seeing a particular argument from some Islamic apologists that homosexuality is wrong because it’s harmful to society or to the human population. Set aside the religious argument for a second, because that’s a separate (and at least internally coherent) position.

If you’re going to argue from harm, you have to apply the standard consistently. There’s no evidence they harm the population. Humans are not at risk of dying out because a minority of people aren’t partnering with the opposite sex. Gay people have existed in every society and population numbers are doing fine.

Whereas cousin marriage is permitted in Islamic law, and it’s common in many Muslim majority societies. Studies consistently show elevated risk of recessive genetic disorders in children of first cousins. The absolute risk increase is modest per child, but it compounds in communities where cousin marriage has been practiced for generations.

If you want to argue that the risk for any single couple is relatively small, and that adults should be free to make their own choices, fine. But that’s exactly the point. If “some elevated risk to offspring” isn’t enough to ban cousin marriage, then “harm to the population” certainly isn’t enough to condemn relationships that carry no such risk at all

If you want to be consistent, you have two options:

1. Drop the harm argument and embrace DCT. Just say “my religion prohibits it.”
2. Or if you want to keep the harm argument (perhaps if you feel DCT has negative implications, such as God allowing rape or murder) then apply it everywhere, which means prohibiting cousin marriage too

Yes, in the end I will show how one leads to the other.

Let's grant that omnipotence does not mean the ability to do the impossible, like creating a circle with corners.

1. So, omnipotence must mean the ability to do anything that is possible.

2. If we have free will, it is possible not to sin. Otherwise I don't have the free will to choose not to sin.

3. Thus, it's possible that everyone chooses not to sin.

4. Same with it being possible that everyone believes in God and lives happily ever after.

5. If God is omnipotent, and it is possible for people to not sin even with free will, then God has every ability to create a world with free will and without sin, where everyone goes to Heaven and lives happily ever after.

6. Since people do not believe, and people sin, either God is not omnipotent (thus couldn't create the possible world with free will and no sin), or he literally chose for sin and non-belief to exist (thus there is no free will).

Reminder that we're not talking about probabilities here. We're talking about a creator who can, IF he's omnipotent, accomplish anything that is possible. If it is impossible for us to all choose not to sin, then we do not have free will, as we are predestined to sin. If it is possible for us to all choose not to sin (which it would be, if we have free will), then an omnipotent God deliberately chose not to create that world, thus we are predestined to sin, thus no free will.

One of the best arguments I have come across for God's existence is simple: Why does something exist rather than nothing?

Why does anything exist? Everything in our universe seems to depend on something else and cannot exist on its own. For example, stars depend on physical conditions, planets depend on cosmic processes, and human beings depend on causes beyond themselves as well. So, if everything depends on something, what explains the existence of the entire chain? Even if you were to claim the universe is infinite and eternal, infinity or eternity does not explain why the chain exists in the first place. An infinite chain of dependent things does not automatically become self-sufficient simply because the chain has no beginning.

Something cannot come from nothing, so this existence must always depend on something that is necessary and eternal.

TL;DR: If you knew your family was being tortured eternally, you could never truly be happy in heaven. For you to be completely happy in heaven, God would have to alter your brain so much that “you” would cease to exist.

This argument is aimed at Christians and Muslims who believe that there is an afterlife with complete happiness (e.g., Revelation 21:4 promising no more mourning or crying) as well as an endless hell of conscious torture.

Humans value two key virtues - empathy and unconditional love. Many parents would sacrifice themselves for their children. Therefore, if a devoted Christian goes to heaven but their beloved atheist child/spouse is sent to hell, logically speaking there are only three options that would allow God to keep heaven blissful:

1. Erase your memory of the damned.
God removes from your memory those who are being tormented in Hell so you won’t feel bad. By doing this God changes your identity. A mother whose memories of her child have been erased is not the same person she was before. She lost her earthly identity.

2. Destroy your ability to empathize.
You still know your family/loved ones, but God alters your personality so you just don’t care how they’re suffering. Thomas Aquinas advocated for this (Summa Theologica, Suppl. Q94, Art. 1). He said that the blessed will rejoice in the punishments of the wicked to understand God’s justice. Essentially this would mean that people in heaven lose all sense of compassion – which they were instructed to demonstrate during their time on earth.

3. You retain both your empathy and memories, but are miserable.
You spend your entire existence grieving for your family/loved ones. In this case, heaven isn’t a place of complete joy and the scripture saying “the sorrow shall disappear” is untrue.

Theology of eternal reward and eternal punishment is contradictory. There is no way for God to create a heaven where His followers can be absolutely happy and also send their loved ones to hell for eternity. As such, God would need to destroy the two greatest parts of humanity - our capacity for unconditional love and our ability for empathy.

Christians love to declare what is “sin,” but most never stop to ask the basic question: by what covenantal authority? If you claim Gentiles are not under Torah, then Torah cannot define Gentile sin. Yet Christians routinely condemn others with Torah while refusing its obligations for themselves. That is not holiness; it is selective moral appropriation. If Torah binds you, keep it. If Torah does not bind you, stop using it as a club. But the one thing you cannot do is reject the covenant and still wield its commands as universal law. What authority do Christians have to call anything a sin if they reject the covenant that defines sin in the first place. If Christians aren’t under Torah, then what authority do they have to declare Torah violations as sin.

I consider myself a believer in God, but I’ve always felt that religion needs to evolve as time changes. Look at human history: we’ve fought countless wars over whose version of God is "right" and forced people into rigid boxes.

If an all-powerful, good God actually exists, what makes more sense? That He cares about spreading love, compassion, and people doing the right thing? Or that He demands brand loyalty, forced conversion, and strict compliance to rules written centuries ago?

The religion i am from is supposed to be a way of life, not a static rulebook. But for some time our people has blindly following it Even some time voluntary inforcing it ironically in our religious stories and scriptures, God and divine figures break social, moral, or ceremonial rules when a higher good demands it. Yet as followers, so many people get completely trapped in the form of tradition while forgetting its actual purpose.

Why are we so terrified of letting outdated customs evolve? Is it just comfort, or have we turned human traditions into an idol of their own?

The God of the Old Testament was not originally understood as the one universal God of Judaism and Christianity. He emerged from the polytheistic religious world of the ancient Near East, and his transformation into the supposedly unique creator of the universe was the result of centuries of theological evolution.

The claim that the Israelites had always worshipped the one and only God is contradicted by the very scriptures on which Judaism and Christianity rely.
Exodus 15:11 asks, “Who is like you, O LORD, among the gods?” Exodus 20:3 commands, “You shall have no other gods before me,” rather than stating that no other gods exist. Deuteronomy 10:17 calls Yahweh “God of gods and Lord of lords.” Most strikingly, the older textual tradition of Deuteronomy 32:8–9, preserved in the Dead Sea Scrolls and reflected in the Septuagint, describes the Most High dividing the nations among the “sons of God,” with Yahweh receiving Israel as his own portion. Psalm 82:1 depicts God presiding over a divine assembly and judging among the gods.

These passages preserve the traces of a religious worldview in which Yahweh existed within a broader divine hierarchy.

The Israelites also worshipped other deities. Judges 10:6 explicitly lists the Baals, the Ashtoreths and the gods of neighbouring nations. First Kings 11:4–8 accuses Solomon of worshipping Ashtoreth, Chemosh and Milcom. Second Kings 21:3–7 describes Manasseh's worship of Baal, his installation of an Asherah image and his devotion to the heavenly host. Ezekiel 8:14–16 depicts women mourning Tammuz and men bowing to the sun in the Jerusalem temple precincts. Jeremiah 44:15–19 records Judeans defending their offerings to the Queen of Heaven and associating her worship with their prosperity. These are the Bible's own accounts of a population whose religious practices were far removed from the strict monotheistic ideal later attributed to its ancestors.

Archaeology reinforces this picture. Inscriptions from Kuntillet Ajrud, dating to the eighth century BCE, invoke “YHWH of Samaria” or “YHWH of Teman” alongside “his asherah.” An inscription from Khirbet el-Qom also mentions Yahweh and an asherah. Many scholars interpret this evidence as indicating that some Israelites associated Yahweh with the goddess Asherah, potentially as a divine consort. The exact meaning of asherah remains disputed, but the inscriptions make it impossible to dismiss the question as a mere invention of modern critics. They provide material evidence that Israelite religious practice could combine Yahweh worship with traditions associated with other divine figures.
The relationship between Yahweh and the older Canaanite high god El raises further questions. Genesis 14:18–22 identifies El Elyon, “God Most High,” with Abraham's God, while Exodus 6:2–3 distinguishes the patriarchal revelation as El Shaddai from the later revelation of the name Yahweh. Psalm 82 places God in a divine assembly, imagery comparable to the assembly of gods found in ancient Canaanite literature. The evidence points to a religious tradition that developed within its cultural environment, not one that descended into history as an already complete and unchanging monotheism.

The decisive transformation becomes particularly visible in the prophetic literature associated with the Babylonian Exile and its aftermath. Isaiah 44:6 declares, “Besides me there is no god,” while Isaiah 45:5 states, “I am the LORD, and there is no other.” These explicit assertions of exclusive monotheism contrast with older passages that acknowledge other gods or depict Yahweh among divine beings. The theological position had changed: a deity whose worship had competed with other cults was now proclaimed the sole God of the universe.

Judaism subsequently presented this developed conception of Yahweh as an eternal revelation, while Christianity inherited the Hebrew scriptures and built further theological claims around Jesus. But neither religion can prove the divine origin of its doctrines simply by appealing to texts produced and reinterpreted within the religious tradition whose authority they are supposed to establish.

Why should the eventual victor in an ancient religious struggle be presumed to possess the truth? Why should the gods of Egypt, Mesopotamia and Canaan be dismissed as human inventions, while Yahweh is exempted from the same historical scrutiny? The Bible provides evidence of changing beliefs, competing cults and the gradual assertion of exclusive monotheism. It does not independently demonstrate that this final theological position was revealed by the one true God.

The central problem is that Judaism and Christianity ask people to accept their own scriptures as proof of the unique divine authority of the traditions that produced them. Historically, however, those scriptures reveal the evolution of Israelite religion from within the polytheistic world of the ancient Near East. The triumph of biblical monotheism proves that one religious interpretation prevailed; it does not prove that its claims about the universe are true.

Judaism and Christianity therefore have no historically demonstrable basis for presenting their conception of God as an unchanged, uniquely revealed truth that humanity has always been obliged to recognise. Their scriptures establish the history of their beliefs, not the divine authority they claim for them.

It may seem easier to believe everything derives from the simplest and becomes more complex over time, but there’s no reason to believe this is actually the case. There being something that reality cannot exist without, God, does seem awfully fantastic and convenient, but the fact that everything that we have around us is already so amazing implies that such can exist. God would be the ultimate source from which everything else derives from.

Before anyone tries to say existence isn’t fantastic, of course it wouldn’t appear so to us, because from birth we’re brought into the world taking what we learn and know for granted.

My argument is essentially that life and existence are so incredible that there must be something that reality cannot exist without, which all this comes from, and that it can only be God. The universe can’t lead to everything because it’s not complex enough.

This is my first attempt at formulating an argument for the existence of God. What do you guys think? I can already see some holes in my argument, but you guys can debate with me so I can improve my arguments.

According to the Gospel of Mathew,  16:15–19, Jesus said that Peter’s statement that he is “the Son of the living God” is the foundation of the church. He says that upon this "rock" the Church will be built and bestows upon Peter the "keys of the Kingdom of Heaven." 

But just five verses later in Matthew 16:23, Jesus turns around and calls Peter “Satan” because Peter became a stumbling block to God’s plan.

How can the very person who spoke the words that form the foundation of the church be called Satan?

Do Muslims really believe I'm the existence of Jesus?

If Jesus is a messenger if Allah as claims by Muslims, the Christianity is fales and anything and everything introduced by it too. So now, when bible is not the actual mesge of the god, how do Muslims refer and acknowledge only the clause required to acknowledge the existence of Allah, the life story of Jesus and his capabilities and how he died?

The claim that love requires the possibility of rejecting God assumes a particular conception of meaningful freedom, but the value and necessity of that conception require justification.

Our understanding of freedom is shaped by the conditions of our present reality, in which desires can cause conflict and suffering occurs. We even associate freedom with the ability to act against our own well-being. But these associations do not establish that every conceivable reality must preserve the same possibilities in order for its inhabitants to exercise meaningful agency. A reality fundamentally grounded in love, joy, and peace does not eliminate individuality or differences in preference. Rather, these differences could exist within a context that does not make suffering, hostility, or the fundamental undermining of well-being necessary features of existence.

Every reality would have constitutive conditions, including the fundamental characteristics of its inhabitants and the possibilities available to them. A reality grounded in love, joy, and peace would constitute a different context for agency, not necessarily a coercive imposition upon it.

There is also the assumption that God and human nature are fundamentally distinct. Alternatively, God could be understood as the ground of reality itself, or as inseparable from the reality in which we exist, rather than as an entirely separate being imposing external demands upon us.

This changes the framing of freedom and coercion. If the divine is foundational to our own nature and existence, alignment with God need not be analogous to submitting to an external authority. A reality grounded in love, joy, and peace could simply constitute a different context in which our nature and agency operate.

There is a fundamental difference between forcing someone to love and creating conditions in which love is a natural expression of their nature. Likewise, the inability to experience a particular destructive desire does not, by itself, entail the absence of meaningful agency. A person could still deliberate, form intentions, make choices, develop relationships, and act voluntarily without possessing the capacity to choose everything conceivable. Love can be understood both as a state of intention and as a state of experience. Neither inherently depends on the particular conditions of our earthly reality to be meaningful.

If God determines the fundamental conditions of reality and the nature of conscious beings, then the possibility of a reality in which meaningful agency exists without eternal ruin must be addressed rather than dismissed by appealing to freedom.

A reality fundamentally grounded in love, joy, and peace does not, merely by virtue of those qualities, entail coercion or forced reciprocation. It entails a different context in which agency and experience occur. To establish that such a reality would compromise meaningful freedom, one must explain precisely what is lost, why that loss matters (even at the expense of lasting love, joy and peace), and why no alternative design could preserve that value without permitting eternal suffering or the permanent destruction of the individual.

1. Change is a feature that is real in the world.(I hope the athiest won't deny it,maybe they will that's why they'll never change)
2. And change is actualisation of potential(feel free to disagree but tell why not)
3. No potential(that can happen)can be actualized unless something actual actualises it.
4. So change is caused by something actual.
5. So any change(let's say X)has to presuppose something or substance S which changes.
6. The existence of s at any given moment tells us that actualisation of potential of s has to be presupposed.
7. So S has at any moment some actualizer A of its existenace.
8. A own existence at the moment actualises either actualisation of its own potential or A being purely actual without potential.
9. If A existence actualizes s then a has to have actualisation of its own potential then there exists either a regress of actualizers that are either infinite or terminated in a puurely actual actualizer.
10. But then caue if that such a actualizers would constitute a hierarchical casual series so such a series cannot regress infinitely
11. So either a is purely actual or there is a purely actualwhich terminated the regress began by the actualisation of A.
12. So the occurence of Y and the existence of s at any moment presupposed the existence of a purely actual actualizer..
13. My point is that a potential, precisely and especially insofar as it is merely potential, cannot by itself explain its own actualization.Now if every actualizer exercise it's casual power merely adding more actualizers wouldn't in itself explain the whole casual activity itself(like a infinite train needs a main source of engine since boxes cannot move themselves)It needs a source.And it doesn't explain why the entire series has actual casual activity.
14. So there is a purely actual actualizer.
15. If this purely actual cannot exist in time since it is unable of change therefore it is timeless.
16. To have power entails being able to actualize potentials.
17. But potential that is actualizes is either by purely actualized actualizer or series of actualizers which terminate in the purely actual actualizer.
18. So all power derives from the purely actual Actualizer
19. ‌so it it is omnipotent(but only being able to do things logically possible)
20. The purely actual actualizer is the cause of all things hence the forms and patterns in all things it causes must in some way be in the purely actual actualizer.These can exist either in the way they exist in individual things or in abstract wayc which they exist in the thoughts of an intellect(including athiests).
21. They cannot exist in purely actual actualizer the same way they exist in in individual particular things so they must exist in the abstract way in which they exist in the thoughts of an intellect.
22. The purely actual actualizer has intellect or intelligence.
23. Since it is the forms and patterns of all things that are in the thoughts of this intellect there is nothing outside the range of these thoughts.
24. Which means the intellect is omniscience.
25. A omniscient omnipotent uncaused intellect is what we call god.

My issue is that I've been rethinking my faith even though I've been a Christian since birth.

Context: Recently, I came across this video where a girl was SA'd when she was 4 years old by her neighbour. She stated that for months she cried out to God asking him/her to do something, yet nothing happened to the person who assaulted her which made her become an Atheist. When I checked the comments I saw people saying things like "God should stop planning", "Is this apart of Sky Daddy's plan?", etc. Which made me think, is god truly real? Take into consideration the Epstein Files, was it apart of God's plan when they did unspeakable things to those kids? Or even the Cornel 7, was it apart of God's plan for "Jane Doe" to get SA'd for hours?

But then we have to look at the Christian perspective and what we were taught as kids. There's the Bible that tells us what Jesus taught, his life, his miracles, and even how he was brought back from the dead. There's also Saints that did miracles and instances like "The Holy Guardian Angels of Ateneo de Manila" where an angel supposedly saved some students that were sitting outside from a falling wall that was caused by an earthquake.

So when we think about these things what are we supposed to believe? That all of these sins are apart of God's plan or that there simply is no God at all?

And how exactly is free will and an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent being coexist with one another?

My claim is that theism collapses into nihilism due to determinism and the ultimate moral justification of all things.

Presuppositions: An all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good God.

P1. Determinism. Every “choice” you make was already known by God and forcefully actualized by him.

J1. You must either believe your choices depend on God’s knowledge, or God’s knowledge depends on your choices. The latter one is problematic, so it immediately follows that you can only choose what God has actualized you to choose.

P2. Every evil in the world has a morally sufficient reason for it to occur

J2. This is the basic solution to POE. For every evil that occurs, there must be a morally sufficient reason that makes this evil ultimately and cosmically justified. If not, then you are saying that God created a world without ultimate and net moral sufficient reason to do so, which would make him not maximally good.

C. There is no reason to choose to prevent evils, as your choice (whatever it is) will be aligned with God’s knowledge, and all evil has morally sufficient reasons.

Whether you choose to be an advocate, a protector, a donor to charity, etc, or not, God already knows. and God has already chosen the most maximally good world and actualized everything with sufficient moral reason.

If you see a kid getting bullied, and you dont intervene, God already knew you wouldnt, and God already had a sufficiently good moral reason for allowing this bullying to happen. Who do you trust more, your moral reasons or God’s?

I know the first counterargument is “but God calls me to intervene, if I choose to intervene its also part of God’s plan and part of the ultimate moral justification” Yes, this is true.

But you could also just not. Then its also part of Gods plan and will. Whatever you choose is technically the most morally sufficient thing, because if you were able to defy this ultimate moral sufficiency, that would mean you were able to thwart or defy God, which is not possible.

Then this simply collapses into nihilism.

The only motive you should really have, is securing your own salvation (through a heaven/hell salvation lens). Do what you need to do to be saved, but outside of that, being a fearless advocate or protector of others, is really pointless. because you can just choose not to, and both will have exactly the same moral sufficient reason in the end.

Only under atheism (or theism with non-determinism or non-benevolent God) is there actually a real reason to prevent Evil. Only under these frameworks, preventing evil actually can result in better moral justice.

It is simply impossible to actually alter the ultimate moral justification in the universe as a human. Whatever you do, you’re not actually helping or hurting it ultimately. God could only actualize a perfectly maximal world with sufficient moral reason for all evils. You will not and can not do anything to change or improve that.