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u/celesleonhart 4d ago
That's slightly heartbreaking. She had such a positive influence from an outsider's perspective to PyschOdyssey. Hopefully she's in a better spot.
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u/Co-opingTowardHatred 4d ago
What is “CPTSD”?
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u/Ambrosio-dev 4d ago edited 4d ago
I have CPTSD and it's a nightmare to live with. Given how transparent Double Fine is it either must be secretly hellish over there or there is some form of toxicity happening with Lisette that is not truth-telling.
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u/Co-opingTowardHatred 4d ago
Everyone has their own experiences and feelings. I’m not doubting or denying Lisette’s telling her truth, but that doesn’t mean all employees there hate it.
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u/dantevsninjas 4d ago
It's also just as likely that it's related to the fact that Double Fine has probably been existing on a razor's edge within Microsoft for years.
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u/Responsible-Bit969 3d ago edited 3d ago
She wasn't with the company long after the acquisition. She left after psychonauts 2 shipped so I doubt its much to do with Microsoft. It's all at the end of the documentary, we get to see a small glimpse of how bad the psychonauts 2 development was in that. Highly recommend watching though.
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u/Beneficial-Ear8754 3d ago edited 3d ago
Tim is glorifying what’s it’s really like to work for him.
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u/CelebrationLeft8607 4d ago
I feel for her, but there is really is no way to get PTSD from a single meeting without some extremely illegal actions taking place, or much more likely, some bad underlying mental health issues. I am extremely pro union, and trust that she felt manipulated in ways, but this kind of language is dangerous imo.
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u/Affectionate-Name279 4d ago
It’s using therapy terms to weaponise her defence, and is something emotional manipulative people do. I get she might want to be subtle for legal reason but this reads like trying to set herself up as a victim without giving any actual details of why.
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u/Beneficial-Ear8754 3d ago edited 3d ago
You’re not a therapist and that is not true. You get PTSD from a single event. Which Tim did not show in full. You dont know what happened off camera. Stop excusing abusers cause you like them
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u/CelebrationLeft8607 3d ago
of course you can get one from a single event. I know because I have it from one. you really can't get it from a single business meeting, though. not without severe conditions
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u/SaulFemm 4d ago
I didn't read the union article as a "canary in a coal mine". There seems to me to be a contradiction in saying that their experience was so terrible as to give them PTSD, but also saying that a messy union attempt is somehow worse.
I don't mean to downplay their experience but I think they may be blowing this article out of proportion.
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u/BarleyDrops 4d ago
she is saying they should join a union, meaning the people trying to unionise were right.
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u/supafatjellyfish 4d ago
If you get PTSD from a meeting you might have bigger problems
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u/Passiveresistance 4d ago
Fucking right? And cptsd from a “manipulative work environment? Seems kind of insulting to people who actually have these conditions
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u/Beneficial-Ear8754 3d ago edited 2d ago
She said it’s diagnosed. Which means there is doctor who made it. Stop believing
abusers cause you like them.2
u/Passiveresistance 3d ago
Oh that must be it, I like abusers. /s
Do you understand the sort of trauma a human brain has to go through to get cptsd?
Most people with mental health disorders also have jobs. By no stretch of logic does being employed and also having cptsd mean that she got it from her job.
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u/Beneficial-Ear8754 2d ago
You’re a fanboy. Not a therapist.
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u/Passiveresistance 2d ago
I’ve played one doublefine game in my whole life and idek who you’re accusing me of fanboying. Nice if you to assume my gender as well.
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u/Daharka 4d ago
Does Lisette (or anyone) have more detailed write ups of this? I've seen the documentary so I feel like I can see some of the story, but this seems to go beyond what the doc discusses.
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u/Vilified_D 3d ago
Interview i just read had Tim saying that the meeting became more hostile than the doc let on.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/LookSpecialist9140 4d ago
Just curious but how did it change your opinion of Tim?
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4d ago edited 4d ago
[deleted]
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u/BroccoliSouP7 3d ago
I just finished the documentary yesterday and boy oh boy, what a journey. I could not agree more with some of your assesments. I frequently pointed at the screen and though "I don’t like Zak at all, but he’s right". Like the dude tried his best aiming at corect goals but went wrong about hitting them (probably due to his more corporate background, and lack of anything concrete from Tim). I was incredibly frustrated with Tim just galloping in the office like a fairy for about two whole years while everyone else strugled. Further, I think Zak should have been sidelined but not kicked out, but I get it how it came to be.
Also, the Amy situation was even worse. Instead of admitting that she was right and offering a reasonable compromise, they just told her to essentially "not really a concern" and surprise, they lost so much time especially after Kee instead of reassuring her in private and standing behind his team admitted to telling her something along the line of "get on with it or get out". I knew that she was strong enough to speak it out loud so it was obvious she would quit, and inability to read the room here is baffling (also her programmer friend went with her, my god, cheers to Anna 2 for such a show of support). Throwing away two essential people because of your pride is a tough cookee.
If it wasn’t for natural 20 with Microsoft, the studio would be gone by now, or downsized heavily, I think.
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u/willnye2cool 3d ago edited 3d ago
You didn't lose your respect for Tim when he did his best Gob bluth impression with that sockpuppet stunt?
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u/manicdepress0 4d ago
I always heard double fine was like one of the best studios to work for? Did i miss something?
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u/Beneficial-Ear8754 3d ago
Did you get that impression from the Double Fine PR machine that is 2 Player productions or from actually employees? Two of whom just told you it’s abusive. You’re dismissing her cause you like Tim.
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u/manicdepress0 3d ago
Dawg i do not even know who tim is. Literally all i have ever heard has been from jason schrier making comments on triple click. My b im sure theyre ass
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u/xLaxCroixBoix 2d ago
Damn. Are there any good studios left? Next I’m going to hear is that Remedy is ass to work for too.
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u/r0pe_tri1ck 4d ago
I got ptsd from being raped as a child. Sorry you had a bad meeting but maybe a bad meeting and job shouldn't give you a mental illness
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u/Beneficial-Ear8754 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sorry you were raped. That doesn’t dismiss someone else’s experience. This isn’t the oppression olympics. I hope you got help.
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u/r0pe_tri1ck 3d ago
I'm fine. I think people need to be tougher. I have had plenty of help.
I just don't like people over catastrophising shit for woke points.
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u/Beneficial-Ear8754 2d ago
You’re a victim of rape and your answer is people should be tougher? Maybe you are not fine? A diagnosis is a fact. How would you feel if someone questioned your victim status?
Weird take.2
u/r0pe_tri1ck 2d ago
You're right every bad thing that happens to everyone is PTSD and you should hey victim points forever for it.
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u/MuggyGameDev 2d ago
Thank you for saying this, and for being a good human Beneficial.
It's clear that u/r0pe_tri1ck has some screws loose. Best to block and move on.
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u/LookSpecialist9140 4d ago
Which episode is the meeting she's talking about again? I watched the whole doc but don't remember much about her situation
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u/ironmaiden947 4d ago
Oh wow, had no idea thing were that bad at DF. I watched PsychOddysey so I know there was not so great time, but damn. Wonder what happened?
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u/Samanthacino 4d ago
From what I've heard it can be suuuuper cliquey, especially with the old guard. I am not remotely shocked employees who've been there a long time would engage in active union-busting.
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u/mikesstuff 4d ago
In may they would’ve been told about the impending layoffs no? Since they live in cali?
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u/Responsible-Bit969 3d ago
Unless she came back to work for them she quit Double Fine after Psychonauts 2. I doubt it's much to do with Microsoft or layoffs.
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u/bedteddd 4d ago
What's going over yonder? This is the kind of stuff that made big corporations leave America or just shut down completely.
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u/Former_DoubleFine 4d ago
I don’t know what this comment means or its relevance. I don’t think Lisette complaining about being abused at double fine is why any big companies left America.
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u/NotAnIBanker 3d ago
These people are too mentally weak to have any success
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u/Beneficial-Ear8754 3d ago
She’s an accomplished dev with 25 years experience. Abuse doesn’t skip you cause you’re successful. You’re too much of an asshole to know the difference.
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u/smiles__ 4d ago
As with everything, it's all grains of salt.