r/CompetitiveWoW • u/AutoModerator • 4d ago
Weekly Thread Weekly Raid Discussion
Use this thread to discuss any- and everything concerning the raids.
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u/Ok-Wrongdoer-2497 3d ago
I've compiled a list of changes I'd like to see to coiled altar. I dont care if it annihilates the fight, it deserves it:
- Axegrinders travel in straight lines and bounce off the boundaries of the arena
- The first axegrinders despawn when the next set is summoned
- Axegrinders despawn when zuljan is defeated
- Reduced damage from holding a venom orb
- one less mutagenic and one less regular orb per set
- Ghosts do not move for up to one second after turning away from them
- One less ghost spawn per dreadmarch break
- One additional second to position on Gloombomb
- 50% reduced damage on retaliatory malice (random bolts from adds)
- 50% reduced damage on soaking gloombomb 'soul fragments'
- one less second on duration on ghost soak debuff duration on burn intermission
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u/throwntosaturn 2d ago
https://www.wowhead.com/news/massive-mythic-coiled-altar-nerfs-with-weekly-reset-383389
2 less regular orbs, 1 less purple.
Ghost angle +10 degrees to freeze them.
25% less ghosts because 25% less MCs.
Pretty accurate guess tbh.
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u/Ok-Wrongdoer-2497 2d ago
It wasn't everything I wanted, but its pretty solid. Axegrinder and the rng damage between gloombomb and rng bolts is still going to be very annoying.
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u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 3d ago
So, what encounter design was possible this raid now that evil addons are defeated? Only thing i can think about is gloombombs but targeting is smart so there was no need to begin with
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u/TemporaMoras 2d ago
In TWW, gloombomb would have been randomly 4 people targeted. Which you then would need to use a weak aura to assign on the fly.
Then blizzard would have used that as an example of why they needed to remove addon, because without the war on addon, they could have never done something as advanced as smart targeting 2 melee 2 range.
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u/Wobblucy 3d ago
Think of how OP having raid markers on your minimap for Szzorak was before they fixed it!!!
Orororoor the lines on Vashnik?
Those encounters totally would have been ruined if blizz didn't step in so quickly to break that functionality!
/s
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u/Ok_Cicada3826 21h ago
- Ula'tek waves, eggs (esp the mythic version), tail soaks, P3 blood soaks, P2 tethers all would be things that become more trivial with old addons.
- Sszorak is definitely something that would have been nuked by an addon (and briefly was before Blizzard stepped in).
- In a world with addons, Twin Fangs would have been a lot more complicated since they'd have made the stack management & group coordination more involved
- The mythic version of entombed sentinels (only see your own number) is something that would have been completely negated by old addons
Generally, the thing that the de-fanging of addons allows is for them to design fights with SIMPLER mechanics since they know those mechanics won't be completely eliminated by an addon. A shadowlands/dragonflight version of many of these bosses would have had far more convoluted versions of these mechanics to compensate for the addons.
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u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 12h ago
But thats not what i meant, any idiot could make simpler mechanics, they specifically mentioned WAs restricting their encounter design and so far, every mechanic could exist in WA world no problem
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u/Ok_Cicada3826 2h ago edited 2h ago
The point isn't that they couldn't make a mechanic, since they could always make whatever mechanic they wanted. The point is that they want to have the encounters be certain difficulty levels, and previously that wasn't possible with many mechanics because they would get completely eliminated by WAs. However, with the nuking of WAs, they can use those simpler mechanics that previously they would have chosen not to do because the WA would have made it too easy relative to the desired difficulty of the encounter.
Look at two of Ula'tek's biggest pain points in heroic (talking about pug-like groups): tether breaks and P3 soaks. In the WA aura these would have been solved to death by WAs that trivialize those mechanics, e.g. assigning tether pop times to players dynamically, or giving everyone marching orders of where to stand for P3 soaks. That would have made Ula'tek a MUCH easier fight, so blizz would have either needed to make those mechanics much harder or add more stuff in order to hit their difficulty target.
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u/Sortes-Vin 4d ago
Northern Sky has called quits it seems. Hopefully Reloe will keep NSRT going.
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u/SadfaceWOW 7/9 M 4d ago
Any links for that ?
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u/AccomplishedSpace834 3d ago
5% on twin fangs and everyone in the guild is basically dreading starting coiled altar prog
probably not the ideal feeling for your players to be experiencing
praying for a hof close and significant nerfs
1
u/TemporaMoras 3d ago
Realistically, since HoF will close this week, there should be coiled altar nerf coming soon, so rejoice?
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u/Ruppyyy 4d ago
I hate coiled altar. Being forced to look at your ghost is worst mechanic I have ever witnessed. Especially on class with channeling spells, because casting forces your character to look at target and you have to shake cam to keep looking at your ghost
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u/Sinsie9698 3d ago
I feel like Blizzard intended this mechanic to play out differently and for some reason hasn’t just nuked the ghosts from orbit. I think? the idea was to have kicking the adds show the ghosts and allow people a few seconds to safely move them but in practice it doesn’t work and we all just hard stare at our ghosts or risk dying on the spot.
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u/ikitomi 3d ago
On ptr it was "if your ghost touches other players" for a whiles. And like most boss where a mechanic is changed within the last month of ptr, it sucks ass.
Meanwhile as a healer p2 is just 15 hours of prog misery watching dps fail to play the game with 2 hands for once.
You just hold down right mouse, it's really not that bad. But really I don't understand the issue. We're holding dps just like p1, no one gives a fuck if you miss a few gcds. Your dps is truly does not matter for the first 7 minutes of this fight, just fucking play the boss.
Thank God we're at 6% p3 best pull. So we can wipe to shit like "people were running around like confused headless chickens and don't get in guillotine 2" (to the point 3 of us in the main guillotine were volunteering to just die in it).
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u/yp261 4d ago
surely hof closes this reset?
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u/shyguybman 4d ago
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u/yp261 4d ago
wow raider io is wildly inaccurate
1
u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 4d ago
whats the number on wowprogress then, excludes china?
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u/sad_scribbles 3d ago
Yes. https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/worldsoul/us/leaderboards/hall-of-fame/mythic-raid/the-venomous-abyss is the only truly accurate one (but Blizzard might just decide to keep it open for another week for the love of the game of course)
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u/TemporaMoras 4d ago
There will be more guild that have killed ulatek this week, than every week before combined. Not at all clown nerf
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u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 4d ago
5 kills since thursday
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u/Green_Pumpkin 4d ago
we’re about to see galactic numbers of no overtime guilds overtime on monday
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u/shyguybman 3d ago
I am looking forward to this weeks episode of "the bench" where growl talks about his guild overtiming lol
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u/Qwertdd 7/9M bring back weakauras 3d ago
You guys think there's any panic at the offices over what a disaster this patch has been for Blizzard? Given their track record with vomiting up the same mechanics raid-on-raid I'm sure someone dipped back into the design document for a Worldcore boss to remove a stare-at-the-ghost mechanic or a 14-kick kick order.
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u/sad_scribbles 3d ago
I assume there's some level of panic about the general bugginess of the game since there's been 0 public communication about that. But the decision making hats probably still think that the addon pruning hasn't been an unmitigated disaster and that the overall encounter quality hasn't taken a massive nose dive. Knowing Blizzard they'll take a couple of years/expansions to get there.
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u/O____W____O 3d ago
remove a stare-at-the-ghost mechanic or a 14-kick kick order.
Probably replaced them with a seed mechanic.
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u/Justdough17 3d ago
I'm afraid we're getting a stupid combination like seed+ghosts or seed+axegrinders
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u/Fatigued-insomniac 1d ago
a 15-kick kick order where only the people holding the seed can see the cast.
Or or or. Only the ones holding seed type 1 can see the cast and only the ones with seed type 2 can interrupt.
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u/th3champ2 3d ago
Curious if there is any panic at all. Blizz only cares bout sub numbers and with wow forever about to launch, I'm sure subs are about to skyrocket meaning wow is doing great!
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u/deadheaddestiny 3d ago
I've never seen my guild this dead in the 6 years I've been with them. 6 hour WR 700ish. Actually concerned for the future of this game right now. I'm very interested to see what retail looks like after forever launches
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u/Frekavichk 4d ago
First time in like 3 expansions attendence has fallen apart before getting aotc. Kinda indicative of how horrible this season has been, in addition to forever coming out.
Kinda depressing tbh as someone who is still daily logging to grind out m+ and having an empty guild.
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u/LiquidxDreams 3d ago
Same. They log on to raid twice a week and that is it. Our guild is a ghost town.
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u/Riverpaw 4d ago
AOTC guild closing in on H Ula’tek. I’d asked for advice last week and got some great tips, including the difficulty of the 2nd platform break. Even post nerf it was giving us a hard time. I’m thinking we got it this week though, pretty much everything else is under control. Just have to make it through that transition with everyone alive.
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u/cuddlegoop 3d ago
In p3 the soaks being easier and the platform break doing less damage was really noticeable on my guild's reclear. Makes the phase way more forgiving. You got this!
4
u/Fun_Career_4275 3d ago
I mostly m+ but was burnt out and decided to pug some raids. I didnt understand the downside of this raid tier that everyone has been mentioning until now. While CA certainly is annoying - it seems more pug groups make it through that and then crash and burn at Ulatek. LFG is filled with endless people 7/8H. I've been progging it and have had some incredible groups and countless p3 attempts but still not clearing it. I think Blizzard needs to revisit their philosophy for raid difficuty. I think making heroic a little harder was good but Ulatek is not a good fight and some mechanics are there just to make it harder for no reason. The tether mechanic is annoying - I think having the fight around the egg nonsence at least makes sense. The red soaks at the end are dumb too - just dps down adds is enough and watch waves.
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u/RigidCounter12 Prot Paladin M+ Connoisseur 3d ago
The boss after the nerf now is how an end game heroic boss should be.
The mechanics are pretty simple now that it has been changed
2
u/Fun_Career_4275 3d ago
I would agree somewhat - but the takes on reddit here are disconnected from the larger player base. I learned the mechanics and tips and tricks but this is a lot for people. I've been DM's by a number of people during the pugs. "Sorry I'm out my DPS is too low", "Sorry man I can't do this", etc. I find some takes on reddit disconnected from the reality. People on this sub say M+ is cake, its too easy this season. Meanwhile in reality people are dying from everything in keys and don't understand the mechanics or just downright overwhelmed lol.
2
u/ailawiu 3d ago
I mean, it's always been like that. After every Tindral nerf, there was some armchair raider claiming this will be basically puggable. There's always some supposed expert who hates every nerf with burning passion and claims it trivializes everything.
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u/shyguybman 3d ago
I enjoyed the post-nerf tindral "this is literally a 100 pull boss now" meanwhile the average remained around 300-400+
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u/MRosvall 13/13M 3d ago
Tbh I feel that Ula'tek is quite a perfect fight for progressing in pugs in HC the first weeks.
Every individual mechanic is extremely simple in a vacuum since they are very easy to naturally assign. (Half raid left. Half right. Same groups soak first and soak second. Same side breaks all tethers first, every person goes for an egg until there's none left etc). But they are very disruptive initially and you lose a lot of uptime, but every time you perform it you're going to get better at completing it with less lost uptime making the dps requirement very free even in early 300-310 ilvl. Learning mechanics and timings is really rewarding you can have 100% uptime even if you do all mechanics.
The issue with the fight is that the people who hasn't managed to get it by now are groups of people who simply can't fathom that they need to move and do mechanics in order to learn how to not be overwhelmed by them. When they tried doing mechanics, they lost so much damage vs others and decided that cheating at mechanics saves them more dps than learning to do mechanics without losing uptime.
Unless you progressed together with people who were in the same situation as yourself early, I can see that it will be really hard to do it with people late. Even if a few of them got in on kills with other groups.One thing that kind of surprised me wasn't changed early on is the 2nd break platform overlap. That is quite a killer so late in a HC boss. Just making the soaks explode 5 sec earlier would probably make the fight a lot more forgiving or alternatively remove the set of eggs there.
2
u/throwntosaturn 3d ago
That 2nd platform overlap is absolutely brutal if your ranged aren't really dialed in and ready for it. I agree it's kind of odd they left it in the fight for this long, it's particularly sketchy.
2
u/bemac3 3d ago
Reading this thread after reading my guilds discord is like whiplash lmao. Apparently we’re the only ones that are mostly enjoying coiled altar (currently progging through p2).
There’s a couple of people trying their hardest to bring the vibes down, but enough people are saying things like “this fight isn’t nearly as bad as I thought it’d be” that it balances out. And orb carriers in p1 are actually having fun, funnily enough.
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u/ghostcrawler_real 3d ago
That rocks, very happy for you. Hopefully you work through the last 2 quickly.
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u/Pjotroos 1d ago
What's the relative difficulty of Kith'ix (heroic and mythic)? Trying to decide whether mythic is worth attempting, and how much prep heroic requires, hoping to pool the collective wisdom of US over the next 15 hours.
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u/insane_psycho 1d ago
One of the mods here killed it world second after liquid and said it was hilariously overtuned for what it drops. They said it took 44 pulls and was not worth it because heroic is quite easy and if you have spare bonus rolls heroic will get you the same items and crests uncap next week anyway
1
u/Ok_Cicada3826 21h ago
Heroic Kith'ix is pretty tame. 3-shot it in a "meh" group filled with lots of AOTC folks, but a lot of them were regularly lagging/dc-ing due to server issues on day 1. You just need everyone to be on the same page about how stuff works:
- Whenever adds spawn, you nuke them first, with tanks keeping them away from boss and on top of each other
- Don't touch more than 2 bomber beetles at once; try to slow/cc them so you pop 1-2, then pop the rest after those stacks fall off
- Whenever the golden orbs come out, RUUUUUUN to get one
- Fear debuff = run to edge of circle, healers dispel
- Tanks be disciplined about where you drop the P1 tankbuster bc the intermisison soaks come out of it towards Liadrin. They should be far from center, usually in the same quadrant of room but not NEXT to each other
- During intermission, people need to soak those orbs before they hit Liadrin
- Lust at 25% after the stun ends, and pop EVERYTHING cus you have 40sec to kill boss or you wipe
- DODGE THOSE BULLETS in P2
- Whoever gets the portal debuff on them, run out and drop it far away (ideally close-ish to each other)
- Tank in P2 drop your circle on those portals to destroy them
However, most of these mechs aren't super punishing on heroic, so you can usually manage a kill even if a few of them get messed up.
1
u/Mierin-Eronaile 3d ago
I'm new to mythic raiding, I'm a healer. CE last tier, prog was going well this tier but now we disbanded. I want a step up in terms of WR with my next guild. My logs are good (90+ parses, playing mechanics well, not dying before wipe, etc.), I know my class, but don't maintain alts.
Ideally I'd like to push for HoF, or at least close to that ( e.g. WR 300 or better) in the next 1-2 tiers. I play 2 days so far, but willing to go up to 3 for that goal. Also happy to maintain a healer alt.
What's my next step? I can find lots of guilds around my WR or slightly lower who want to offer me trials. Do I just finish out the tier with them? Do I say at the start I'm looking to move on soon? I also have a few better WR guilds that say they'll look at my app after finishing prog or getting back from break.
At the moment I'm not raiding, so falling behind. But I don't want to accept a trial and then 1-2 weeks later be offered a trial in a far better WR. I don't even know if my goals are realistic, or if I should just continue getting CE for a few tiers before thinking about WR.
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u/throwntosaturn 3d ago
3 day HOF is really tough. Really, really tough. Those are some of the most competitive slots in the entire game, because generally a lot of guilds throw hours at the problem when it comes to HOF.
You will have extremely stiff competition to get into a strictly 3 day HOF guild. And, it's worth noting, almost every 3 day HOF guild is actually 4 day for the first like 4 resets, cuz they all have a mandatory heroic clear - at least the half dozen I spot checked real quick. That ends after like 4 lockouts, but still.
You'll likely have to maintain at least one alt and be good enough at it for like, actual mythic prog if required.
I would probably try to avoid taking a bad offer that you intend to back out from. That said, any guilds you are apping to that are still in prog are already outside your target. Anyone still progging ulatek is missing HOF unless they crush it tonight.
I would probably slow roll accepting a bad offer at this point if you already have strong logs for most bosses this tier.
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