r/CHICubs • u/TinKnight1 • 9d ago
How did the Cubs win with no pitching?
https://youtu.be/C0azxIJnMp0We all know the answers (offense & defense), but it's pretty funny to have just how historically bad the pitching was this year (worst for a playoff team in 25 years) & how historically good the defense & offense were (best defense in the Statcast Era).
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u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 9d ago
Well here’s the thing: we didn’t
We limped into the playoffs with the second WC and then got mollywhopped.
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u/thebizkit23 9d ago
It's pretty disingenuous to act like the Cubs didn't almost win 90 games with their top 3 pitchers out for 90% of the season along with a dog shit bullpen.
The truth is the Cubs record is pretty impressive considering what they dealt with but on the other hand the front office did not do enough to patch up the problems and totally missed on their bullpen signings in the off season.
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u/Inevitable-Copy3619 9d ago
the pitching started off bad in terms of injuries and just kept getting worse and worse. the trade deadline deals were good in general, but that bullpen had Rollison and that’s about it.
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u/thebizkit23 9d ago
By all accounts, this team should have not made the playoffs but they got carried by PCA and their defense. They had enough pitching to stay competitive in most games but just didn't have the arms to win you games when the team was in a slump and forget about the bullpen.
Credit is due to CC for the work he did, I get that it's easy to single him out and blame a lot of stuff on the manager, but realistically there really wasn't much else he could have done and managing a perfect 162 is impossible.
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u/Bennie-Factors 9d ago
How can we credit CC here. I have not seen anything that he does that is not zero WAR as a manager.
Maybe he is better than replacement level. But it does not seem he was any bette than rossy
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u/Inevitable-Copy3619 9d ago
Having seen him in action for 2 years, I’m lost as to what makes him so great. I don’t see much going on that every other manager wouldn’t do. He tweaks the lineup a lot…but you can do that when you have depth and guys who can hit in a lot of positions. He manages the pitching pretty predictably. I’m lost?
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u/thebizkit23 9d ago
It's been said several times by the players. They love playing for him, they feel CC prepares them for every game, his biggest strength has been handling and putting together scraps into an serviceable at times caliber bulpen.
CC moved PCA to leadoff which sparked an MVP season from him.
I don't think anyone is saying CC is the greatest manager in the game but it's downright silly to think he's a bad manager.
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u/Inevitable-Copy3619 9d ago
I don’t think he’s bad by any stretch. In fact, he’s above average. But I wouldn’t put him in the top-5 anymore. He’s a fine manager but not what we thought he was in Milwaukee.
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u/thebizkit23 9d ago
Eh, I don't even know how people legitimately even can rank MLB managers.
Bad pitching and lack of resources humble every manager. Terry Francona is considered one of the best of the best and yet he has a sub .500 record with the Reds.
Alex Cora was considered a wunderkin manager at one point, he's gone.
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u/Bennie-Factors 9d ago
Every player who wants playing time says this about their manager. The same goes with any company where advancement is a goal
As for PCA. Was it really that hard to copy what Dave Roberts did with the dodgers. And do you really think this idea did not start with the analytics group. It is clear we want the best hitters hitting the most.
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u/-DaveThomas- a quality baby 9d ago
Dave Roberts is not a great manager. He's leading the best team money can possibly buy. People in this comment section could manage the Dodgers.
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u/thebizkit23 9d ago
Again, you aren't actually listening and you are just set on your own opinion.
I'm not trying to convince you that CC is an amazing manager, I'm just informing you what the players and front office have said about CC.
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u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 9d ago
sure we did a great job outperforming our injury luck...but we didn't win anything. even if we won 13 more games somehow...we would have still not won the division. none of what we do in the regular season matters if we don't win some games in the playoffs.
It was a fun season and they can never take away PCA's historic season from us. but that's basically all we can take away from this year.
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u/thebizkit23 9d ago
We didn't win anything BECAUSE of the injuries. Most teams would have given up the season a long time ago ala the 25 Braves
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u/SavingThrowVsWTF ZO 9d ago
How many of those losses were due to the bullpen not being able to support the starter?
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u/Inevitable-Copy3619 9d ago
and it was one of the more inconsistent seasons I’ve ever seen. apart from the huge win streak and two x ten game losing streaks, they were either hot or ice cold as hitters. It was a really strange season.
Even MVPete started off rough and didn’t have a great end to the season.
No clue what the solution is but I think a much more dependable bullpen would help even out some of the highs and lows.
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u/Mr_BigShot Tennessee Smokies 9d ago
You have that backwards. They won 10 in a row twice and lost 10 in a row once.
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u/We5ties 9d ago
They did tho 89 times actually in a loaded NL
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u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 9d ago
ok. we won 89 games. did we win the division? did we win a single game in the playoffs?
I don't want to discredit this season because it was a LOT of fun and PCA is literally the best baseball player in baseball. but we didn't win shit this year.
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u/OkFlow4327 1984 Cubs Fan 9d ago
this is correct. but looking at the responses to your comment, most people don't like the hard truth said to their faces. people's fandom clouds their judgement.
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u/naitch44 Chicago Cubs 9d ago
One thing these Play offs are showing is we were noway near with this pitching staff, miles behind.
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u/Tarenger 6d ago
Just imagine what the stat lines would have been for the pitching staff without the defense behind them. Then again the fact that they gave up more homers then they were able to hit usually amounts to going home after 162. The defense and PCA got them a bonus check in the form of the playoff payouts.
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u/Key_Palpitation_9252 9d ago
They won by having the 8th highest payroll in all of baseball - $100M more than their nearest competitor in the Central (the Brewers). The Cubs ERA was number 11 in all of baseball. I know there are other stats but I'm old and understand that one well enough. Their Runs Scored and Defense were the best in baseball plus they have the likely MVP. So, I thought they should have won more than 90 games. Blame the players all you want - but, a good manager should have been able to get more than 89 wins with this team. Every year that passes, I am more convinced that the Cubs got the wrong manager from Milwaukee and that Milwaukee's front office pantses Jed Hoyer annually.
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u/Intrepid_Coyote_5820 9d ago
Truly intriguing season by the cubs.
Answer is, pitching is very very important.
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u/unique_user43 9d ago
trick question i guess, because they didn’t win JACK SQUAT.
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u/TinKnight1 9d ago
I mean, they had 89 wins & the 7th best record, & that's with a big September slide. Acting like they didn't have a winning season is delusional.
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u/Doublestack2411 9d ago
When you lead the majors in runs scored, it helps negate pitching woes.