r/Bachata • u/GurRadiant3477 • 10d ago
Help Request Beginner advice
I’m leader (m),I have started learning bachata 3 months ago 2 -3 classes a week, 25 lesson in total
It is a bit overwhelmed because when I dance with advaced followers they comment that I don’t give signals for the move, or they just do the figure because they know from the class
I don’t get to know my mistakes because the class is bit crowded and the teacher doesn’t see all ,
Tried going to social was hard too because full of advanced followers
What do you recommend or advice here? Because I see no improvement
Should I do 1-2 private classes so I get to be focused
Or like bootcamp 4 hours module
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u/TryToFindABetterUN 10d ago edited 10d ago
First of all, how many socials have you done during these three months? Just this one?
Because if this is the case, 2-3 classes per week is quite much more than the average beginner. So while you might get a lot of theory, moves, etc, you really haven't had time to practice it outside of the classroom setting. And to be honest, in the classes, too many* follows back-lead. They will do the figure you are learning even if you don't give clear signals, believing you to think that you are doing everything right, while there might be a lot you are not doing or doing incorrectly.
At the social, they need to feel your leading, the preparations and signals you give them. Even an advanced follow can't follow if the leading is very vague or non-existent.
IMHO you should have at about an hour of social (where you dance perhaps every other song at least) for each 1 hour of class you go to. Just to be able to practice what you have learned in class. So if you go to 2-3 classes, you need a social night out per week to just keep up.
Taking private classes or attending a boot camps will give you even more stuff, but not much more practice time. So if you aren't going to enough socials (or practicas) I wouldn't advice you to spend more money on classes right away. Start with the socials.
If you ARE going to socials, then a private class can help if you specify exactly what you think you have trouble with. That way you can get feedback on the little things you do (or don't do) that you aren't aware off.
It is sad that you can't get more feedback in your regular classes. If you have options, perhaps look for a class with a smaller group or where the teacher is more inclined to give feedback. [Edit: I agree with u/DeanXeL that you should ask in class. After all you are paying to learn and if you aren't learning efficiently you need that help.]
* = even one is one too many IMHO.
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u/GurRadiant3477 9d ago
Thanks lot for your comment
Yes I have been to 2 socials only so far
Cause it was terrible experience
I got to knew 2 girls did with them the first social dance and they gave me confidence although I did only 4 figures box , turn, pretzel and 4th one but forgot the name
Other followers they either don’t get my signals or They don’t know the move so we miss it up
Or they are advanced and I feel they are bored because the figures are basic
So i thought I got to do more classes to get higher level
You got a point that I need to do socials, but I don’t do well in social so what to do?6
u/TryToFindABetterUN 9d ago
I think you have your answer there then. You have practiced way too little for the amount of classes you have taken so far.
The only way to get better at dancing at socials... is to dance at socials. You get good at what you practice at, a very simple rule.
I know it is intimidating when you haven't been to many, and I won't lie, it will probably take a while before you are perfectly comfortable going to one.
But every time you go and dance socially, you will improve, even if you think it was awkward and scary. You just have to keep at it. And you will see that for every time you go, it will be a bit easier.
And try to find the follows that want to dance with you. I always advice people to attend socials with a pre-social class. Go to that class. Here you will meet some of the people at the social later. If you find any in class that you feel comfortable with, ask if you may have a dance later.
Go to the social regularly, so that others recognise you, then it will be easier to ask them for a dance.
Also, perhaps avoid those "advanced" dancers that give you attitude or snotty comments for now. Look either for those that want to dance with you and think it is fun, usually follows closer to your level, or advanced dancers that are friendly and helpful and won't mind one song with a new face.
I got to knew 2 girls did with them the first social dance and they gave me confidence although I did only 4 figures box , turn, pretzel and 4th one but forgot the name
Hey, there is absolutely nothing wrong with only doing simple steps/moves. You ARE a beginner, no-one expects you to have mastered everything. Better to do simple things well, that do advanced things poorly and possibly failing. Once you are comfortable with the simple things, add something new to your "vocabulary" and try to use that.
With time you will be able to lead more and more.
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u/Atanamis Lead 9d ago
You have to go back. Socials are the only way to progress. Think about driving. If you only ever drive in a parking lot, you can't learn. You don't learn to look for traffic. You don't see traffic signs. You don't have to judge the movement of other cars. Like driving, when you first start there are a hundred things to remember. And you need to keep driving until those become intuitive. Until they just happpen on their own. And THEN you can start planning sequences. But the simple fact is that your first dozen socials might be miserable. And you'll feel like you're imposing. Just do one dance per person if you don't feel like anyone is especially interested to dance with you. And stick to the most basic tier of moves you're confident in. A basic step. Simple turns. Moving turns. Pretzel. Add only one new thing per social. And don't try more complex things until this list feels reliable.
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u/L3ir3txu 9d ago
Keep on going to socials but don't force yourself to stay the full length of it. Or take long breaks between songs and just watch people enjoying themselves.
You mentioned you had some good experiences with a couple follows. Try finding follows you connect with and dance with them to build up confidence. Just be transparent: "it works with you, would you mind dancing with me again later a few more times?".
I know a handful of beginner leads that did this with me (some are not so beginners anymore, but when they started). I'm not even a very good follow, but sometimes you connect with certain people. They just told me that and I was eager to dance with them many more times than what I would normally do (as 1 bachata - 1 salsa with each only). I love seeing their faces lit up when a move/sequence works!
One of them sometimes comes running towards me "I'm sorry but I had a very bad dance and I need to build up my confidence, can we dance again?". I find it adorable and love dancing with him.
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u/AppleNo7287 9d ago
I was so pissed yesterday with our follower-instructor about backleading. I'm in a tiny place, and she's an average dancer herself. I'm a follower-turned-leader, lurking in the beginner leaders' classes because I like it when I don't have to think and can just do the combo someone else created. It helps me disconnect from work on a Wednesday night, lol.
In the combo, there was a move that I don't like and thus don't do well. When it was my turn to dance with her, I was like - okay finally I'll check if I'm actually leading this element correctly.
I was flabbergasted when she basically just did the entire combo herself. She might as well have been dancing with the wall. I was actually so surprised that I stopped, and she continued for another four counts before turning around and looking at me. I was like, Giiiiirl, really? Ugh.
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u/Atanamis Lead 9d ago
OP, please don't listen to the people suggesting you quit. We all learn at our own rate, and if you've gone to 25 classes it's because you found something you love.
As a beginner, the most important thing to learn is your frame. This is what gives you the structure to dance with another person. Shoulders back, elbows in front of you. If you lead "with your arms", a follow can't feel that. Your whole body needs to do it.
Next is your basic. And it's not a sideways three steps, followed by three steps back. It's a weight shift left, then right, then left, and a tap. This is why a box step is still a basic. Each step can be in any direction. It can be at an angle. It can pivot. It can be in place. This is important because a good dancer can have an "advanced" dance without ever doing a turn. Without a pretzel or a hammer lock. Just the basic step. And you need to practice this. You will find yourself bored of it long before you are doing it correctly. But if you do it WELL, people will enjoy dancing with you.
And you then stack a simple turn on that. The biggest problems here are lack of a proper prep and lack of follow through. Ask follows in class if they felt the turn clearly. Encourage them to let you know if they don't feel it clearly. Ask your instructor to show you what it feels like, and if you're doing it well. Add movement to your turns. Step back and lead the turn through where you were standing. Drill basic and simple turns until they feel like bread and butter. Simple easy reliable things which require no thought.
A pretzel is just a turn where you don't let go of a hand. Practice turning a follow into pretzel, and then exiting from it. Do this until it feels automatic. And the thing is, all of these moves can be lead for a follow who doesn't know how to dance. I lead them for my buddy in his garage last week. Never taken a single dance class, and I could lead all of these for him. The issue is NOT the level of your follows. It isn't matter of whether they have learned the moves. If you are clear, they can do it.
But only if you practice at socials. Classes are good for an introduction to a new concept. But until you can do them on a social floor, you haven't learned anything. It took me a couple years to pin down these basics. I had no ryhthm, no musicality, no connection. But I drilled and practiced and I learned. And so can you.
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u/TryToFindABetterUN 9d ago
OP, please don't listen to the people suggesting you quit.
???
I haven't seen any indication that the OP mentioned that others told him to quit, and none of the posters in this thread have even mentioned the word before you did, so I am not sure whom you are referring to.
In the replies people have either suggested taking a private class or go to more socials (or both). And ask the teacher to explain in class. So I only see encouragement here (as I think it should be).
And the OP already confirmed that they had been to 25 classes but only 2 socials, which means they haven't had much time to practice the things they might have learned in class.
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u/Rataridicta Lead&Follow 10d ago
This is very hard to tell without dancing with you or seeing a video. Some common things that I often see beginners forget are:
- Prepare on 3, 4 (or 7, 8) for the move you're going to initiate on 5, 6 (or 1, 2). Your prep comes 2 counts before the move.
- You should be breathing to establish frame and tension in your body while you're preparing.
A private would be very useful for this type of thing, but you can also try asking some of the followers what they feel is missing, or ask your teacher in class about it.
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u/GurRadiant3477 9d ago
Yeees, I did this late preparation mistake before till one follower told me it’s late now
That’s what I mean I do mistakes that I don’t know and the follower just do the move because we see it in the class so no improving for me
For example when doing simple turn and then basic or turn and then we are side each other
I don’t give good signal1
u/Atanamis Lead 9d ago
Follows who guess make it much harder for both of you. If the follows in your class are doing moves they did not feel, they are cheating both of you out of a learning opportunity. If they don't feel it, they shouldn't do it.
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u/DeanXeL Lead 10d ago
I'm a bit surprised that after 25 classes (3 per week is a LOT to keep a focus going, btw, it's not for everyone) you still get comments that point me to thinking you don't have a proper frame. If the class is crowded and you think the teachers don't see everything, don't be afraid to actually just ASK in class when something isn't clear. Just a very simple "how do I lead this properly?" can give you good information, if your teachers are good.
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u/mllax 9d ago
Started this year and what I like to do is sometimes just dance the last min or even last 30 sec of the song with a follow to get in the groove.
Also if you know how to spice up your basics with variations, no issues just doing that. If the follow is nice and also knows they can use this time to style more, they’ll appreciate it from my experience
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u/WestHistorians 9d ago
The only way to improve is to practice. Keep going to socials and trying out moves. It's okay if they don't work. Followers are generally understanding.
Remember that technique is more important than fancy combinations.
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u/Samurai_SBK 9d ago
I recommend taking a private lesson to give you professional feedback as to what you need to work on.
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u/TheBroInBrokkoli 9d ago
Appreciate feedback, any feedback has potential to improve your dancing. Ask questions to the follow, to understand what to improve - even though they might not always know. Befriend fellow leads and beginner followers and practice with them. Ask questions in class. It takes time. It's like building a house of 1000 bricks and laying one brick at a time. With this growth mindset you are already ahead of some dancers, that stagnate in their dancing because they no longer focus on learning and improving.
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u/queer_bachata_mcr 6d ago
Are all your classes based on teaching a routine/combination/sequence? Most classes are taught that way, but it is a deeply flawed way of teaching partner dance.
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u/SpiritualWay4270 3d ago
Be confident in your signals, don't be hesitant or intimidated by an advanced follower. You are the lead. The follower follows at the level that you choose, not at the level that they want. Leads often lead too much from the hands. Bachata is more about the intention of your body such as hips, chest, rib cage, etc. . The direction that your body moves says just as much about your intention as your hands.
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u/iHasYummyCummies 10d ago
Experience will come with time. Its a marathon, not a Sprint and u will fix your issues by time. Dont rush and have fun.
Even advanced Leaders cant always give the right input so dont put to much pressure on yourself.
From a learning perspective: learn figure, Learn the steps and technical part of it, keep using it and by time u will Not only do it right, but also looking Nice and also your growing confidence will spark over to your follower.
Just my 2c.