r/Astros • u/Hairygrim Andre Scrubb • 16h ago
[Rome] The Astros have parted ways with manager Joe Espada
https://x.com/chandler_rome/status/2110387001392263481?s=4629
u/Sparrighitti Houston Astros 16h ago
Time for a fresh start all the way around. Hopefully they consider a bit of a rebuild for a roster refresh as well
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u/breadmandude 16h ago
He was dealt some shit hands, but glad this has been made official and we’re moving on.
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u/rawmerow Houston Astros 16h ago
Fire sale. Do it. Baby Astros loading
https://giphy.com/gifs/wi8Ez1mwRcKGI
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u/CT272 16h ago
I get it since they’re starting fresh, but Espada was far from the problem in my opinion. It’s not his fault this team didn’t have enough pitchers or competent outfielders. I think he’ll do well when he gets another shot. I just hope it’s somewhere other than Seattle
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u/ray_0586 The Brain 16h ago
It isn’t a complete fresh start.
Astros bench coach Omar López has been offered an opportunity to remain in the organization in a new role, the team announced.
The Astros announced they are retaining pitching coach Josh Miller, first base coach Dave Clark, field coordinator Jason Bell, hitting coach Victor Rodriguez and bullpen catcher Javier Bracamonte
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u/Guilty_Pineapple_557 Alex Bregman 15h ago
He's talking with Seattle; we don't know if they're gonna hire him for sure
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u/BuyerAlive5271 16h ago
I’m not about to start hating on Joe but this was not a surprise to anyone paying attention. I’d say a good move towards the future of the team.
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u/Doyce_7 16h ago
I feel for Espada, one I met him in San Diego and he seemed like a genuinely good dude in our few minutes of interaction. Two, I do think he has potential as a manager but he was dealt a truly rotten hand with this team the last few years. I wouldn't have brought him back either but the lack of success was not his doing
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u/Jwilsonred Houston Astros 16h ago
I don’t think he was our guy that was going to help us win championships, but he’s far from our biggest problem. Considering how injured this team was for the past 2 seasons I think he did a fine job. No hard feelings for him at all and I’m sure he’ll get hired elsewhere very quickly
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u/pizza_me_your_tits 16h ago
He hasn't had an outfield for two seasons. He maybe have made some questionable decisions, but all the players seem to like and respect him which counts for way more.
He was a good manager all things considered. He shouldn't have a problem catching on somewhere else in some capacity..
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u/The-dos-qt4 16h ago
Fielded a AAA team last year with league leading injuries. And hasn't had an outfielder that could hit his body weight in BA. Yeah not great timing for Espada, hopefully he lands in a good spot
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u/TankBoys32 Houston Astros 16h ago
Injuries and roster construction did him no favors, wish him the best
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u/CoopsCoffeeAndDonuts Marvin Zindler 15h ago
Did his best to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Good luck Joe, I really liked his time as our manager.
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u/dookle14 15h ago
I think it’s pretty clear the Astros are doing a fair bit of cleaning house with a new GM and Manager. Hopefully Crane will let them bring in guys they want.
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u/Logical_Scallion3543 16h ago
His high mark was legitimately the 2023 ALCS Game 5.
He never came close to that again. Way too much of a roller coaster tenure for my liking. Had some low low moments as well that makes me feel more relieved than I probably should he will not be back
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u/Ok_Ideal_9504 14h ago
I was so ready for the Espada era after that game, the emotions were high. Never got anywhere close to that high again.
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u/Ok-Specific-3918 15h ago
Dusty was still the manager in 2023. Unless you’re giving him credit as a bench coach.
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u/Apprehensive-Ice-544 16h ago
I’m glad, but cautiously… I REALLY don’t want Alex Cora. I know Cora said previously he didn’t want to manage this season, but people’s minds change .
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u/no_quarter89 Astros Pride 16h ago
There is zero chance Crane would hire him.
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u/Apprehensive-Ice-544 16h ago
I know you’re right but I thought the same thing about Correa not coming back yet he did . I just want to keep as much distance from 2017 as possible
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u/Successful-Acadia-95 16h ago
Time for some 100 loss seasons to restock otherwise you languish in mediocrity. Where is Bo Porter nowadays?
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u/ron-paul-swanson Yordan Alvarez 16h ago
Introducing your new Manager of the Houston Astros….. Braaaaaaadddddddd Ausmussssss!!!!
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u/unlikedemon Nolan Ryan 13h ago
Unless we get some incredible signings or our starting pitchers remember that they’re pretty good when they’re on it, it’s going to be pretty much more of the same.
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u/Primary_Expert7249 11h ago
I don't see how a new manager is going to improve the pitching suddenly over 1 year. Feels like a mistake.
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u/j1h15233 Houston Astros 15h ago
Hopefully this is just the first step. Clean house on this roster. Altuve, Yordan, Correa and Cam can stay. Get what you can for everyone else
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u/trizzo0309 15h ago
Espada got a bad wrap for managing a bad roster given to him by Brown and Crane. Deserved better. He'll succeed elsewhere.
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u/TaxLawKingGA 16h ago
Bye bye. I mean I am not going to say he eas complete trash because this team has some talent issues, however our performance in the playoffs is what really did him in. Very Dierker-esque.
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u/BlakeK87 16h ago
Who do we blame now when we still use our budget inefficiently and have massive holes in the roster that puts any one in charge at a huge disadvantage?
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u/youthisgood 15h ago edited 12h ago
I'm not saying Joe Espada was the main reason for the Astros' problems for the last 3 seasons, but he certainly worked with that he was given despite player injuries, and confidence struggles. With that being said, he may have been a good bench coach, but he wasn't ready to be the strong and confident manager the team needed. I wish him the best of luck on his future endeavors.
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u/Orbit2744 Houston Strong 13h ago
Easy to shit on Joe but a big thank you to him and his family. Wish them the best of luck in their next chapter
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u/Etalyx 11h ago
Everyone's got torches and pitchforks until he's actually let go and then suddenly everyone becomes an apologist.
Joe just has this aura of pitifulness I guess because everyone seems to feel sorry for him. No one thinks he was good, at best they think he wasn't that bad. I was a big supporter of him taking over after Dusty but it's time to move on, that ship has sailed. Feeling sorry isn't a reason to not try and do better.
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u/HumanRuse 1h ago
Everyone's got torches and pitchforks until he's actually let go and then suddenly everyone becomes an apologist.
I mean that's essentially baseball fandom 101. My favorite (which happens here all of the time) is a player getting blasted constantly for underperforming. His chapter with the Astros ends and he leaves a nice social media message thanking the Astros, fans and city. Suddenly everyone loves him again.
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u/FrozenPhoenix1892 16h ago
So so so stupid. The guy taking over for the post golden era era was always going to fail. He dragged us kicking and screaming into the playoffs 2 out of 3 years and missed last years playoffs (as the most injured team) by a tiebreaker. Not sure who out there will be better than him, but Jim Crane knows everything, so we will see
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u/KlutzyHandle672 16h ago
Uh... I think MVP caliber play of Alvarez dragged us into the playoff. Don't over value a manager. Sometimes, you need a change of voice. Dude seemed like a nice guy, but this team really didn't have an identity and I think that is reflective of Joe. Blend in and hope for the best.
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u/turymtz Houston Astros 16h ago
Team didn't have an identity? Wtf does that mean?
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u/TNELSONhtx 14h ago
Culture, mentality, accountability, style of play, how a team responds to adversity. You know, the things a manager is supposed to help establish.
The Astros under Hinch and Dusty had a recognizable identity. What was this team's identity under Espada other than relying on individual talent to bail them out?
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u/turymtz Houston Astros 13h ago
LoL. That's all faux sports talk. Identity is tied to players. We lost or refused to sign our recognizable players. How's that on Epsada?
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u/TNELSONhtx 11h ago
You're confusing roster identity with team culture. Nobody is blaming Espada for losing recognizable players. That's on the front office.
But establishing expectations, accountability, consistency, and a style of play absolutely falls within a manager's responsibilities. A team's identity doesn't just disappear because a few familiar faces leave.
You can acknowledge that Espada was dealt a difficult hand while also questioning whether he did enough with the players he had. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
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u/crushsuitandtie 14h ago
The Brewers are a pitching dominant team with great defense and playing small ball. They led the league in average but were 3rd worst in HR in the entire MLB. That's an identity. They dont need to hit homers, they pitch and grind ABs to death and settle for small ball. Much like Cleveland. That's an identity. It helps you decide who to pick up an who to let walk. It shapes everything you do.
The astros HAD an identity of bloop and blast, very low K, great defense, and stellar bullpen with starters that had high spin rate groundball or strikeout stuff. When we were at our peak it was perfect.
What is their identity now? What are they trying to build using these guidelines for an identity? They don't have one.
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u/Famous-Somewhere- 14h ago
Right but most of what your talking about with the Brewers isn’t management driven. It’s roster construction/GM driven. This was Dana Browns team more than it was Espada’s in that respect
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u/crushsuitandtie 10h ago edited 10h ago
I can agree with that, but I would add the caveat that how you use what you have and the game plan focused around what you have was not done well. And that fell on Espada. The bullpen usage, hitting strategy, base running strategy, health management, etc etc. Espada didn't do well in these areas and I think it had an impact on the outcome of a lot of games. Espada could have looked at all these outside slider strikeouts and managed these ABs better. Asking pros to do more or less or different is part of the job. He didn't do that in my opinion. These pitchers struggling to double digit ERAs and they just kept getting them out there with very little change. It's like a bad manager would let these young guys on the Brewers go swing for the fence instead of making them put the ball in play and grind ABs. The manager can destroy the identity that the roster was built for and the GM can build a bad roster that is not capable of having a winning identity. The manager can fail to reign in players and get them on program. We seen that alot.
100% agree that Dana built a shit roster. I complained about it all off-season and up until the trade deadline for 2 years. There was no effort to better this roster in some very obvious places. I understand cap and tax issues and Crane meddles, but I don't believe Crane said sit still and let it fall apart. He's exactly the opposite of that. So something was very off at each level, GM, Coach, and assistants.
All of this led to having no real identity. I believe this roster could have played more to contact and base running and let Yordan, Paredes, Altuve and Walker provide the power when it was needed. But we lacked any kind of identity that would have shaped the order and plate strategy/discipline differently. It looked like guys went up and had individual ABs.
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u/tomiathon 16h ago
A decent manager would have had us comfortably in the playoffs the past 3 years and not sweating it out to the last day. I would say Espada cost us 5 games per year conservatively between poor in-game decisions and poor coaching/accountibility leading to bad play.
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u/no_quarter89 Astros Pride 15h ago
There’s no manager in baseball who makes that much of an impact. 5 wins is an all star player.
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u/dream_team34 12h ago
The way these fans look at is... "Espada put in Brian King. He gives up 3 runs and the lead. This is Espada's fault we lost." No blame to King himself. No blame to Dana for not providing a better option. No credit to the other team for maybe making good hits.
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u/no_quarter89 Astros Pride 12h ago
Yep. It’s a game of failure and every substitution is a dice roll. Good decisions can yield bad results and bad decisions can yield good results. Sometimes the other team makes the bad decision you benefit from. In 162 it really all evens out. The way players respond to a manager’s leadership is the biggest impact a manager has and that is impossible to calculate.
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u/lebron_garcia Houston Astros 13h ago
I don't think Espada was a good hire but in some ways this was inevitable. Astros have lost too many good players and signed too many bad contracts to sustain themselves as elite.
And the brainless narrative that the '23 Astros were mismanaged by Dusty is utter nonsense.
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u/Redrubytheofficial 16h ago
Unfortunately the rebuild is happening the 10th anniversary of 2017 and r/baseball will bring it up constantly
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u/Cautious_Gene_261 16h ago
Bye Joe hello bags of money to acquire pitching depth and bionic elbows for said pitchers?
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u/Shawn54One 14h ago
It would be great to see Robinson Chrinos get a chance as a manager. He seems like a smart guy
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u/prgtexas921 6h ago
Why did they retain the hitting/pitching coaches and Lopez if there is an external candidate coming in to manage? I honestly don’t understand that. Wouldn’t the new manager want to have his own hitting and pitching coach or make the decision on that? Unless they were gonna do something internal? Honestly asking.
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u/TempestDrive Houston Astros 15h ago
He wasn’t THAT bad of a manager tbh. Ppl just wanted a scapegoat for the team’s flaws. At the end of the day, it was a terrible roster with zero depth. No amount of managing can save that.
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u/bushy_whacker Houston Astros 14h ago
I’ve mostly come around to this way of thinking. But he did make some questionable moves…but who doesn’t. It comes down to talent and the Astros are severely lacking.
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u/dream_team34 12h ago
Same. He wasn't bad, he wasn't great. This roster isn't good and was a miracle we even made playoffs.
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u/Top_Actuary_767 14h ago
Omar Lopez led Venezuela to the WBC Title, beat Team Japan and Team USA along the way. Let's not overthink this.
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u/swmnnd9786 15h ago
It’s a bummer he’s gone, but given how the team has slid, plus the rough past two seasons with lots of injuries and games where the lineup construction was a huge head scratcher, it seemed like the writing was on the wall when Brown left.
I think there were issues at every level of the organization, but fundamentally it starts at the top with Crane, making costly mistakes with contracts of certain players, a refusal to sign mid-long term contracts of franchise favorites before their value skyrockets the year of them hitting free agency (though some of the moves have proven to have been better for us after the fact) , and an unwillingness to pay more/above the luxury tax for more proven talent to address ongoing offensive and defensive playing gaps. It seemed like any GM that wasnt Bagwell et al would be put between a rock and a hard place. Brown had to bargain bin shop and the gambles this year largely failed (Burrows, Imai, Weiss).
What I haven’t seen folks talk much about on this posr is the injuries and what’s driving the uptick of them over the last two seasons in particular. I imagine it’s multiple different factors but I continue to wonder just how much the institution of the pitch clock, the increased emphasis on velocity and spin, with the same number of regular season games it sure seems like corresponding moves to larger starting and relief pitching rotations are needed, more frequent breaks of the starters by position, and perhaps a reduction of the number of in season games (which I believe has been brought up in league negotiations/talks around the push for salary caps ) plus training/strength/conditioning program overhauls. I also got the impression that the constant lineup changes may have influenced player morale and performance in certain players, perhaps influencing them to go all out on plays and hits leading to injuries..I also wonder if players were out there playing hurt and pushing through pain.
Hopefully a new GM and manager ends up being the kind of hard reset needed, but I’m very cautiously optimistic 😬
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u/SamuraiJustice 16h ago
Bad take, don't complain next year when results drop
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u/leggostrozzz 16h ago
He certainly hasnt done anything to make us think results would improve because of him next year
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u/funkyflea89 16h ago
Omar Lopez is the obvious choice right?
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u/joshfry575 Houston Astros 16h ago
Please no. If they wanted Lopez, then he should've gotten a test drive at the same time Dana Brown was fired. Now, it should be in the hands of a new GM, pick a guy they align with on and off the field.
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u/ParkingKindly8719 16h ago edited 15h ago
Maybe cuz of his performance as a manager for the Venezuela team sure but those players were stacked to win the wbc. He didn’t really do anything
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u/Electronic-Power5656 Sugar Land Space Cowboys 14h ago
DR and USA were also stacked to win and didn't. Not saying I think he's the best choice, but he did more than the other teams did with equally stacked teams.
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u/Thornton__Melon Roy Oswalt 16h ago
He seemed like a good guy, and was dealt a rough hand the last two years.
But a change was warranted, appreciate his success as bench coach for the franchise.