Discussion
This sub has devolved into a braindead cesspool, but one thing no one seems to be talking about is...
like or dislike the pve toggle, I dont give a fuck. But if someone wants to play with friendsand wants a carebear experience, that is impossible without the toggle.
I truly don't care what your arguments for or against this toggle are but that is something that should be considered.
Single player game subs are filled with people seeking validation, multiplayer game subs are filled with trolls who hate the game or the player base. The Kenshi sub is insufferable unless your a teenager trying to goon over Shek fan art.
It really really really is. You legit have a concentrated effort to sabotage a game mode from this sub and people wonder why the devs don’t give a fuck what this community thinks.
If you run into an PvE troll odds are they are an active member of this community.
You think that people giving feedback that a bad idea is bad for a huge variety of valid reasons is 'sabotaging' the game mode? What if it's just a bad idea that isn't working?
helldivers community is just a generic loud gaming community, arc community has people demanding a game change its entire genre, has people diagnosing each other as psychopaths, and also has people conflating the actual base gameplay mechanics with rape and slavery.
Yeah I do love the comments of “I’m sick of been griefed, everytime I go to extraction I get shot in the back”. Just let people play how they fucking want without dictating what’s acceptable or not. The devs haven’t done themselves any favours either
Go check out other communities. This is far from being the worst. Every single gaming community on here is a cesspool. But this one is far from being the worst.
All 3 versions of wow, 4 if you want to get pedantic. League of legends. Tarkov. Eso. Aion 2. Destiny 2 before it was announced eos. Osrs is in a constant battle with itself all day. Runescape 3 also battles itself all day, but then the same people who share the 2 fight with each other as well. So you can count that as a 2 in 1. Throne and liberty. Lost ark. Bdo. Look around and stop assuming woe is me cause you see this one. No community is good on reddit. But to say this one is the worst is insane cope.
It got REALLY bad about 6 months ago. “Dead game” “no players” “Embark doesn’t care about hackers” etc. I took a very long break during that time but still browsed the sub and it wasn’t super fun lol.
That's because the PvP crowd are crashing out after a year of shouting down anyone and everyone who wanted a co-op experience only to have Embark completly pull the rug out from under them with this public test.
That's how it goes always on popular game subreddits. Ppl who enjoy the game are too busy playing it to shitpost all day on reddit and ppl who don't are just looking for echo chamber to validify their dumb opinions.
It’s crazy because there are so many aspects of frozen trail (and the game in general) that are actually interesting to discuss. Amplified weapon stats, new perks, outpost upgrades, etc.
But here we are having the same boring old PvEvPvP debate we’ve been having for a year. I genuinely don’t know if have these people even play the game lol
They are KOS, its dreadful. Bc if you dont shoot first or dont commit to scurrying around and being very fast going from one location to the next, you're basically just waiting to get jumped
PvE mode finally got a friend to come back to the game and I got to run trios with him which never would have happened in my lobbies. We had a great time. So I’m thankful for that.
People do not seem to understand this. The people wanting PvE will go PvE. People who want to PvP will go PvP. Most PvE players are probably not going to do PvP and probably weren’t playing much PvPvE anyway. There’s not that much overlap.
Secondly duos and trios is way less friendly and is skewed heavier towards KOS. It’s harder to not be shooting other raiders constantly in duos and trios. PvE is primarily for teams.
I’m convinced these people venomously against PvE either don’t have friends and always play alone, or are mad their PvP matches are now PvP and they don’t have as many friendly players who don’t shoot first. Either way this sub has lost its fucking mind.
Just look at Fortnite subreddit about Zero Build. its the same pattern. A lot of bitching about an optional gamemode meant to keep casual playerbase playing.
These elitists would rather kill the game than let others play the way they prefer.
One of the reasons my friends and I drifted away was that our choice for the high end (at the time) PvE content was (a) do it all solo, or (b) deal with an immense amount of griefing and hope you can pull it off.
We wanted to go kill a Matriarch together as friends, but the path to doing that was simply not fun as a trio.
You got the point. They want Victims, not competition. They feel like they are the boss if they kill others but when everyone is aware and interested in PvP their ego wont get the hype of "another easy kill".
Yeah let me just lose the PVPVE element from my PVPVE game.
Walking across raiders mean absolutely nothing now. They don't talk, they don't even react, they might as well not be there. But in PVP? They immediately shoot me, some of them in the scummiest ways, because all the normal ones have gone PVE. This should never be added, ABMM was working, I did not get shot or hear a single flare for 10 matches in a row, but there was magic in the necessity of declaring yourself friendly and acknowledging each other.
What pvp did you think they were talking about? What pvp is anyone talking about? you call it a strawman, so what is the pvp that you are thinking that the pve players are going to get into ?
If the toggle becomes permanent I might actually get some of my friends to buy and play the game. But they have zero interest in PvPing. (I don't really either, but my tolerance for occasionally getting shot by other players is higher.)
At this point, just plop me and my team on a map solo. Major arc threat and reduced loot. Heck only stock 1 building really good and leave the rest empty. We’ll have a great time and also get to avoid getting griefed by other players.
I know the "just play Helldivers" argument is reductive and overused but like, you know you literally just described Helldivers word-for-word, right? It really does just sound like you'd rather play a different game
Ah yes, Helldivers 2 and it's famous "Loot one building in post-apocalyptic Italy" game mode.
Look i see what you're saying but saying that the argument is bad and overused and then subsequently using said argument doesnt change the fact that you said it.
I’m glad you brought that up. I played about 6 hours of Helldivers last year with some buddies before arc raiders. They liked it; I wasn’t a fan of it. They continue to play and I played other games. I tried out about 30 hours of marathon to come to the conclusion I wasn’t a fan. Now I have about 671 hours in arc raiders, I did all 5 expeditions. I dabbled in PvP lobbies, but I enjoy the care bear lobbies more. I dislike the vultures who steal my loot tho. Yall act like people haven’t tried Helldivers already and didn’t like it. Stop trying to shovel it down people’s throats to prove a point that doesn’t even exist. Arc Raiders is going to evolve over time, so maybe you should go play Helldivers if you don’t like change.
but, here is a crazy idea, what if people like arc raiders because its arc raiders? arc, the setting, the maps, the visuals, the lore, the looting, the arc blasting with friends?
anything i've ever seen from helldivers has been super unappealing to me, while arc instantly caught my attention.
Yea this pve toggle has been a godsend for getting my partner into the game. She cannot handle pvp at all and is completely uninterested in pvp, but we play a ton of coop games together and we’re glad to now have the amazing world of arc raiders be part of that catalogue.
I cannot comment on if solo pve toggle is good or bad etc without the data Embark is collecting, my main worry is it will make friendly pvpve lobbies go extinct. But regardless of that, I really hope pve toggle at least remains an option permanently for squad games.
Just spent the evening showing my step-daughter the ropes in duos. They are a new player this weekend and not the most skilled so she appreciates some assistance.
As you say impossible to do with Rats around every corner.
Duos and trios are the only reason I want a PVE mode, at least how it currently is in the test.
I still want some kind of arc invasion mode or something. Hordes of arc. Let's have a matriarch call in a couple bastions being escorted by a dozen shredders. A squad of rocketeers and vaporizers.
I saw them say that's a technical limitation, but those kinds of limitations are meant to be overcome. I have faith in you, Embark.
As a mostly pvp player, I do agree that the PvE option is pretty nice as a way to relax with friends whether that be doing trials, quests, or challenges together. And I think it’s pretty balanced with the loot pool being decreased. Overall great addition to the game and adds a refreshing feeling.
I don’t know what you consider the “carebear” experience with friends to be, since I’m not usually a solo raider, but if it’s essentially: get good loot without being murdered or needing to get into armed conflict 24/7, then it is very much possible. I feel like most my duo matches are more care-bear oriented. I’ll admit trios is more conflict oriented, since larger group = more confidence, but impossible is a huge stretch. The other day I was duoing on frigate, like 10+ people all working together to take down the hydras and crap and not a single murder happened.
Edit: I do agree that this sub has become a total braindead cesspool of “pve yay “pve die!” Though. I’m really sick of people making passive agressive “Pve is just what this game needed!!” Or “Pve sucks and ISNT arc raiders: heres why” posts. Just feels like children trying to get under each others skin because their feelings are hurt.
Well friends doesn’t always = trios. Duo matches are still very carebear friendly. And if you read, from my experience, I do agree that trios feels more combat oriented (and explained why I feel that is) BUT the literal next part of the sentence was “but impossible is a huge stretch.” I play trios often as well and saying carebear lobbies are impossible IS a huge stretch. I still find plenty of chill lobbies as a trios player even though I get into conflict semi-frequently. Which is to say that my position on the ABMM is somewhere in the middle and I still find friendly raiders without much trouble.
If I went to the shop and bought Animal Crossing and brought it home, but then I didn't like that my friend and I couldn't do permadeath pvp in the game, we would find that that is impossible without Nintendo creating a toggle for that.
I truly don't care what your arguments for or against this toggle are but that is something that should be considered.
btw I think if the devs of gran Turismo don't allow me to get out of the car and go around and shoot people I will be review bombing them, spending hours every day telling everyone that people that overtake me on the race track are rapists, and I will fight with anyone who tells me I should play a different game
Don’t you hate it when games have an easy setting? Like the game was made to be played on normal. If you can’t play it on normal even if you like the game just don’t then.
The thing is, nobody ever wanted perma death pvp in animal crossing, but day one of Arc Raiders everybody wanted a pve mode.
Pvp made sense like 20 years ago when we played quake 3 or unreal tournament. But now it’s a useless detriment, unless the game is solely focused on it, like counter strike or something
No not everyone wanted a pve mode. Personally I wanted a PvPvE mode - which is what the game was advertised as. Extraction looter shooter where people kill arc, do quests, do puzzles and also pvp - with no ABMM meant that every game was different, some were more chill, some was super intense. Queuing in not knowing what to expect adds to the tension and adrenaline. Instead we pivoted towards ABMM which does not belong in a game like this. Keep that shit for the competitive games. Split playerbases, PvE toggles. ABMM making every single game I queue into feel exactly the same as the last one. If you did any kind of PvP this also meant all the cheaters would be confined into your lobbies, so that was really cool. No wonder we lost 90%+ of the playerbase.
Yes it's seeing a surge now because of the promised big new shiny update, but the core of the game has remained the same and will surely lose a majority of returning players soon again.
Turns out more people play in friendly lobbies than either mixed or pvp... so I guess a lot of people do want pve. And the smallest group plays mixed pvpve
People have been clamoring for PvE since day one. Also, PvPvE isn't being removed and that isn't even being discussed. The PvE is an optional toggle. The game you want to play isn't going away...it's just getting new content for a new subset of players that don't affect you in any way.
Of course the game they want to play is going away. They want free frags by griefing and killing pacifists who are now happily looting in PvE. Nobody good enough for the PvP part of the PvPvE is whining about this.
These arguments are stupid and the game/situation you're creating a hypothetical for are completely different. Embark's original vision WAS a pure PvE experience. The foundation is already there. There IS a PvE experience in this PvPvE game that people can see and that people want, and removing the PvP isn't actually a major ask. Likewise, there's already precedent for adding PvE modes to PvPvE games, and they've ALL worked out great. They certainly never killed any extraction shooter or PvPvE game.
Well Animal Crossing doesn't have PvP as part of the game to begin with. The reason why PvE is so prevalent in Arc Raiders is because PvP itself is optional and PvE style friendly gameplay was always there from the start. And it always has been. So much so that some players forgo it entirely. This choice led to that awesome PvPvE experience that we all know and love. And at the same time, Embark released ABMM which ensured that friendly experience was, while still optional, much more easy to obtain for those that want it. And here we are.
When you bought the game, did you actively took ratting stratergy into consideration? Or not so much because ratting wasn’t that much of a thing back then. If the latter is true for you or not. Ratting wasn’t that much of a thing at release as it is now. The way I see it is that the way the game is being played changed, agree?
Hey, I agree, but the toggle doesn't go far enough. Separate PVE and PVP entirely. Make it a serparate account. PVP players who have to fght tooth and nail for their loot shouldn't be shat on by someone who stocked up forever in PVE. (even if its only mid tier weapons due to loot contstraints in PVE mode)
Let PVE players get cool shiny legendary crap, and yeah they'll probably slam against the end-game REAL fast if they're good at the gmae, but then they can either have fun with their tons of loot like I did by running in with jupiters to give out to people or 8 rezzes and just rezzing ppl fighting the Frigate or Queen or whatever new big bad arc they come out with!
Or they can get bored and roll a PVP account to spice it up, level THAT one up the 'hard way' in the school of hard knocks that is a full pvp-focused lobby. :) Hell sometimes maybe you'll still find ppl wanting to team up! It'll be rarer yeah, sure and trust will be even at a bigger premium but... at least you know what you're getting into. Especially if they remove ABMM at that point and either do SBMM or nothing.
I'm a PvPvE player myself and I love the PvE toggle, not exclusively but especially because of one aspect which is (for me & my friends) near impossible in normal trio lobbies: teaming up and doing quests, trials, battle pass feats and farming Arc parts in a trios team.
My usual trio lobbies are, when PvE toggle is off, a PvP warzone virtually 100% of the time. No matter what I try to get into "pacifist trios" to occasionally play with my friends it doesn't work and as such trios are de-facto PvP-only.
For the first time since I think December 2025, I queued with friends and we did some trials together as a trio. Before that, trials was a solo or at best duo experience.
When I am doing mundane quests & grinding mullein, arc parts & items to sell I really like the PvE toggle as I have often been killed by a Bobcat in a corner in 0.1ms after grabbing 30+ fireball burners, tick pods & pop triggers.
I dont feel like my time is being wasted preparing for the bigger serious raids (Night Raid, Frigate).
This whole discussion is complete nonsense & sure I think I would rather like a unique minor modifier that is always active that is PvE only, but this is fine.
It's literally the similar function unless you're a miserable PvP player who does free kits just to rat and kill raiders for a pathetic low risk high reward loop.
Yeah man, my girlfriend HATES PvP, and the pve toggle is the only reason she is willing to give the game a chance. Will be pretty disappointed if they don't add some sort of permanent pve mode.
ability to instantly get into pve experience to farm mats that will be used in pvp, transferring wealth from pve to pvp
pve generally makes the game more accessible to more players
makes some endgame content like emperor and turbine more accessible
greatly reduces number of people who intentionally move between abmm tiers, which reduces number of games where some players abmm is mismatched
makes the numerous economy and crafting changes less grindy
last point is something i haven't seen people mention that much. devs not only added huge resource sinks in the latest update but also made previously easily accessible items less accessible. grind turns people away. boosting the rate at which people can gather resources alleviates some of that
removing pve will be a huge mistake and i highly doubt it will be completely removed. pve map options should be scaled down and loot nerfed a bit then i think everyone will be happy
"You need a toggle for grouping,, I don't care what you think"
Definitely contributing to the braindead cesspool there chief.
I ran several raids with a friend who has started to play since the free weekend, we didn't get into any scrapes, but they were happening! She said it was "exciting to have the tension of it hanging over our raid."
Toggle is fine..reg match making is still based on aggression i still have friendly solos and friendly duo.im not a fan of someone faking friendly then shooting u in back but I'd still rather have that risk in my games tho but my trios is where i pvp..but I only have one friend who plays so I do see where the toggle can be handy for trio friends and also so much quicker then trying to switch back into friendly lobbies after you've pvped and need to start farming again.
it's funny how literally every single person who is passionate about hating the toggle does not consider duos/trios at all. like consistently they are always solo players who don't understand how different the duo/trio landscape is and how abysmal it is to play with friends
every player going "but the uncertainty is a part of the game you're killing it's soul" okay man certain PvE is just as boring as certain PvP
Also when you do trials as a trio or duo it is unfair advantage to a solo player and when you have PVE mode to make it even easier for you to top the charts it is not cool .
Does anyone actually read the news from Embark?
When the PvE toggle was announced, they said right in the announcement
"When ARC Raiders was conceived seven years ago, the vision of the game was quite different. We originally envisioned a raid-based PvE Co-op game with looting mechanics. "
They ran into trouble, and took an "easier" way out and made the game instantly more tense by adding PvP as a "feature".
I'm a long-time TCTD player, and something that game and other games with mixed experience struggle from is that what's really good for PvE is generally crap for PvP and vice versa. The "balance" is a time-sink and a struggle.
Frankly, there are not nearly enough games conducive to Co-op gaming with a group of mixed skill (incompetent and competent in the same group). Ultimately, the debate comes down to "It's just a game, enjoy it for what it is" and "Who's enjoying losing?" A PvE toggle opens the game to less early rage quitting (why isn't the shooting range the tutorial area?) and more total engagement from players who wouldn't normally even buy Arc.
If you're not just complaining about having no easy meat to put down, then raise your voice in support of adding arena combat, and ranked matches (leagues) to the game for pure PvP action. Heck, Embark could throw a big-Mer-Fer into the ring with the teams for some extra spice.
Convincing Redditors that a PVE toggle has absolutely zero negative effect on PVP lobbies/players is like waiting on Africa to independently develop a written language with no foreign influence.
AMEN! Trios is nothing but dirty sweats with mental issues clearing the whole lobby while laughing like psychopaths. They can play with themselves! PvE mode forevaaaaa
I don’t know what that means but please come take my stuff in solos, my stash is over 5 million not including my millions in space dollars. I’m really getting sick of the 25 bobcats and 25 tempests, it makes me so sad when I find one and can’t fit it in my inventory. Really bro, I’m so full I can’t even run a free kit.
I joined the game with the addition of PvE, its a shame the PvP'er feel the need to grief them, you would think they would just let them go but we see as usual the folks looking to break things will try breaking them no matter the system.
That's a good point and to be fair, if there is any valid justification for the toggle it's the fact that we already had effectively PvE lobbies in solos anyway, so it's sort of a meaningless distinction at a certain point, other than the issue you mentioned. I'd still prefer basically no ABMM whatsoever, no carebear lobbies, but you do have a good point.
Its been a blast being able to play with my friends again and it but turn into a pvp bloodbath. I hope they make a permanent mode for duo and trios. Solo pvpve was fine as is.
I mean it isn’t impossible at all to get friendly trios… I play trios pretty much exclusively most evenings and I’m in like 90% care bear lobbies now because I never shoot first. Sometimes I duo and those are even friendlier.
Yea it can flip flop around more than solo lobbies and some maps are riskier than others. You can suddenly find yourself in a mixed or aggressive lobby after 10 chill ones in a row, but that helps keep you on your toes. I like that tension and I wouldn’t want to remove it entirely.
You can’t run around like a headless chicken of course, sometimes we avoid lots of gunfire or we speak to people from a distance to scope them out. But we’ve tried the frigate with other trios working together, we regularly kill the matriarch and queen with 3-4 other trios helping.
This is European servers that everyone claims is more aggressive too. What is my trio doing that apparently makes us so special?
Have some of you claiming they don’t exist actually tried to play non-aggressively for an extended period and see what happens?
Also, what about people who want to have want to switch back and forth from carebare lobbies to pvp. That's how I like to play, switching back and forth often, so then I have to play a few matches without shooting anyone in aggressive lobbies, then when I want to switch back and go hard pvp I have to kill random friendly people? It's a waste of time, and ends up fucking me and and the players in my lobbies, either because the other pvpers don't get an actual fight when I'm trying to go carebear, or the friendly players getting murdered, and I'm fucked because I can't play the way I want when I want, even though it's technically already possible, I just have to spend an hour trying to get into friendlier lobbies. I've been playing the most I have in a while since the pve toggle came out, hope it stays the way it is
“It’s impossible without the toggle” it literally isn’t. Ran duos most of Saturday with a friend and not a single person shot at us and we had a few fun interactions with other duos. Even clocked a dude and he didn’t even shoot at me
There's just as good of an argument that no, not everybody is entitled to the exact experience they want from any piece of media or activity. You could adapt, or you could also move on. Nobody is owed an experience in a game that never once promised it. The opposite is true really.. there's constant reminders about raider hostility in the game lol.
Yes. I’ve finally been able to go into trios with my friends without sweating our balls off just to do trials. So much of the game’s progression is tied to pve content but all I hear is “but mah pvp.”
"I truly don't care what your arguments for or against this toggle"
That's not an argument. That's a statement. They are stating it should be in the game and they don't care what reason anyone has for why it shouldn't. Have fun trying considering how I'm tearing that down.
Then you choose to say that your view point should be considered.
Except I didn't state that MY point should be considered, I spoke objectively.
There are a LOT of comments in this sub stating something along the lines of "I got my friends to play finally because of the toggle" or "I played with my wife who isn't into pvp" etc. There are some comments like that in this very post.
My point is that those types of situations should be considered.
I bought a PvPvE game and I was having fun. Then people came in and said it should be changed when it works just fine.
If your friend or wife or child, or SO or WHOEVER else wanted to play this game again after not liking it maybe "consider" that it wasn't made for them.
I mean, the other side of that fallacious arguement is that if you were having fun then "people came in" and things changed well... then perhaps you should "consider" that the game is no longer for you.
Luckily, for everyone, people like you and I don't actually make the decisions which affect the game, huh?
Just because a toggle is being added doesn’t mean you’ll lose out on anything though, no? Not only that it’s a test, so it’s not guaranteed to stick either.
It’s literally not hell divers. In any capacity, can you guys in your secret Helldivers 2 posting club just give it a rest. Everyone is aware hell divers exist. You don’t have to post it for the fucking 9000th time
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u/CMDR_Audaxius 9h ago
“This has devolved into a brain dead cesspool” is every video game subreddit.