r/AceAttorney • u/miles4662 • Aug 22 '24
Phoenix Wright Trilogy Is Turnabout Big Top really THAT bad?
I've been replaying the Phoenix Wright Trilogy after a few years, and I've finally started Turnabout Big Top. I don't think I've heard anything good about this case, people always treat it as one of the worst cases in the franchise. I have no memory of that case either. Is it really THAT bad? Or is it just a boring filler case?
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u/RevenueDifficult27 Aug 22 '24 edited Aug 23 '24
I don't think this case is that bad.
Yes, the culprit is not so deserving of sympathy, and the love triangle is terrible. However, Moe made me laugh with his references and I think he's a really good character. Punishment for pressing is a kind of Mind Chess (you need to notice when Moe is NOT laughing, and then press on his testimony). Besides, the mystery of the case is quite interesting, the logic with the cape actually works (I mean, how else do you explain the "flying" Max? it's not very realistic, but it's possible).
I don't want to replay this case, it's much better in the anime, and it still doesn't deserve such hatred.
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u/hoyrry Aug 22 '24
Idk man the cape logic was a bit eye rolling, but i am new to the ace attorney series, so I dont have alot of comparsion. Love every bit so far except for this case. Like that a 16 year old and a 22/24? (Forgot his exact age) came together at the end was a bit icky. I mean you can debate about age differences but she did not seem mature at all. But the worst thing was the puppet guy, a 30 something guy is after a 16 year old girl and expresses that through a puppet with no boundarys. That was honestly so disgustung. I at first thought he was the murderer because that is some fucked up shit.
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u/thatdudeisa Aug 22 '24
wait, why is acro not deserving of sympathy? did i miss something?
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u/RevenueDifficult27 Aug 22 '24
He tried to kill an underage naive girl instead of talking to her and her father. Kinda bad move.
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u/Arcane10101 Aug 22 '24
Doubly bad because the plan’s failure was entirely predictable. He hated Regina for her inability to acknowledge how serious the consequences of her actions were, but he expected her to magically realize that “the murderer” in his letter referred to her.
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u/crunk_buntley Aug 22 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
wow, you’re telling me the depressed, disabled acrobat who recently lost his brother (his only living family), has to live with the girl his brother loved not taking his murder seriously enough, and can no longer do his job makes decisions that aren’t fully logical? wow, share more. what incredible literary analysis.
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u/SharkNBA Aug 22 '24
you don’t need to be a sarcastic asshole. the point is that he isn’t sympathetic. nothing you said disproves that.
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u/crunk_buntley Aug 22 '24
i don’t need to be. and yet, here i am, being a sarcastic asshole to people who willfully misinterpret media.
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u/narutobarrage17 Aug 22 '24
Acro himself says he is just a murderer when, I think, Maya says he was a victim too. HE clearly doesn't think he deserves sympathy.
And that sarcastic reply just dodges the point of if he deserves sympathy entirely. Why is it relevant if he can't make logical decisions? That doesn't justify trying to murder someone who doesn't understand the consequences of their actions.
He lost any shot of being sympathetic when he decided to become a murderer. If he was going to lose it then it would have made more sense to just explode on her and show her his suffering, but he chose to bury it until it turned to murderous rage. Even if he succeeded it would have caused massive grief in his hero and only made him feel worse in the end.
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u/crunk_buntley Aug 22 '24
acro himself says he is just a murderer
wow! he feels regret for his actions! another point for the sympathy column
and that sarcastic reply just dodges the point of if he deserves sympathy entirely
no it doesn’t. if you think “he doesn’t deserve sympathy because he tried to kill someone instead of talking out his differences logically” is a valid reason for not giving him sympathy, then “asking someone who is not in the right state of mind to do something hyper logical is unreasonable” is a valid response.
he lost any shot of being sympathetic when he tried to become a murderer
i hope you don’t operate in the real world with this perspective
if he was going to lose it then it would have made more sense to just explode on her and show her his suffering
asking someone who is clearly not in a healthy state of mind for a multitude of reasons to act as a hyper rational and logical actor is not reasonable. the fact that acro’s actions are not completely logical makes him human. he is a human character, not a robot.
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u/lizzourworld8 Aug 22 '24
Acro himself says he doesn’t deserve it even when everyone else in the court says he does.
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u/crunk_buntley Aug 22 '24
acro is definitely one of the most sympathetic and well-written culprits at least in the original trilogy this sub just has a super weird hateboner for him because they can’t get past the mental blockade of “but murder is bad”
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u/GreenKangaroo3 Oct 28 '25
Especially since he is so honest about it once caught.
I think it's honorable that he admitted he's bitter and in the wrong
0
u/narutobarrage17 Aug 22 '24
It's not about the attempted murder that makes him unsympathetic to me. Maybe he would be more sympathetic if that wasn't his first action to deal with his grief towards her. Not trying to talk, or even viciously explode in anger and yelling at her. Nope. Kill her.
If he got those emotions out to her and she STILL didn't get it then maybe I would find his loss of control more justified, but he just buried them until those thoughts turned murderous.
And even Acro himself calls himself "just a murderer" when one of them says he was a victim too.
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u/crunk_buntley Aug 22 '24
you clearly did not play this case because acro himself literally says that his first plan of action was suicide
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u/Koko_Kringles_22 Aug 22 '24
The anime is great, if only to actually hear Franziska calling Moe, "the pitiful clown who saw it all".
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u/kaitoulupa Aug 22 '24
I recently replayed it and found it more enjoyable than I remembered. It's flawed, sure, but it was a good case for Franziska's character and one Phoenix got to figure out without Mia's guidance.
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u/aneperli Aug 22 '24
That was my experience, replayed after 2-3 years fully expecting to get annoyed again by the music, the clown, the punching puppet and the daughter but I enjoyed it!
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u/Ncolonslashslash Aug 22 '24
the music was the only part that still annoyed me
i can totally see why shu takumi considers this his favorite case now
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u/Cornmeal777 Aug 22 '24
It's problematic, but its issues are overblown. It still has the framework of what could have been a good case with more time in the oven and a sober writer.
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u/narutobarrage17 Aug 22 '24
Agree. It's like everyone collectively decides that an issue is more serious than it actually was. Just like Navi from Ocarina of Time. People acting like she's constantly talking to you when she only has like 5 mandatory interruptions and you can basically ignore her.
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u/Duplex4762 Aug 22 '24
If you excuse some weird plot points and think about the greater message of the case, i think it’s actually a good case. It’s not supposed to be good. It’s not meant to be a fun time.
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u/Moony-Shanks Aug 22 '24
Definitely not the best case but not the worst either. It doesn't deserve all the hate. The complains I read of it being too hard and needing a guide to finish it feel exaggerated as I did the whole case without any guide and didn't struggle at all, to the point that at the end I was thinking that it was only the start and that the harder part would start but no, it was an easy, quite straightforward case
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u/Asren624 Aug 22 '24
The case itself is far from bad, the characters involved are just unsufferable
except the clown, I like how hard he tries to be funny yet fails and annoys everyone lol
17
u/SquatsForMary Aug 22 '24
I think if they just fixed the ages the case would be seen as fairly mid rather than outright terrible. There are some good qualities to it like the culprit, the mystery, and some character moments with Franziska that make it worth it to me.
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u/Batgod629 Aug 22 '24
The anime does this case better in my opinion. Hopefully Moe's jokes won't make you cringe too bad
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u/astralmelody Aug 22 '24 edited Aug 23 '24
I very much respect that the anime was like “this case is batshit, let’s dial it up to 14.”
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Aug 22 '24
Not really.
The only thing I despise is Franzy giving you penalties during Moe's testimony.
The rest is nice to me.
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u/cosy_ghost Aug 23 '24
It's weird to me how many people hate this part. I thought it was really funny that he kept finding ways to land you a penalty with his dumb testimony. You can save whenever so penalties are totally meaningless anyway.
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u/nintendoleafsfan Aug 22 '24
I think the concept of big top is intriguing, the story builds up pretty well but the cast are just annoying to a fault to deal with. I espicially hated how you would get penalized just for pressing the clown's testimony in court. I find acro to be one of the most interesting culprits in the series though because it's not so black and white, he loses sympathy because he tried to kill a child. But when you delve deeper his life became a tradegy, his brother was brain dead and he became disabled and his role in the berry circus was changed forever. The salt in the wound was having to be cared for by the person who is inadvertendly responsible for the tradegy and than would make comments that bat is now a pretty star like nothing happened. 6 months of that and acro lost his sanity.
Really the part of the case I can't reconcile was why he tried to pin the murder on max. He seemed to give up on life so I don't get why he tried to scheme out of his crime.
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u/Technical_Bluejay773 Jan 18 '25
That is explained at the very end. 'I just couldn't up and left' - Acro. It meant that he still wanted to be there in case Bat opened his eyes again - the same reason he did not commit suicide or turn himself in
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u/Entire-Adhesiveness2 Aug 22 '24
Solving the mystery was fun for me but the pedo stuff is too much honestly
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u/Li-ingInStuffedOreos Aug 23 '24
I'm gonna be honest here, I've only ever watched the anime. The only thing I've absorbed from the Trilogy games themselves is a gameplay of 1-5 and that's it, so this is purely from an anime perspective.
Big Top is HEARTWRENCHING. I can say for everyone but the anime really does do it justice. It removes the creepy love triangle and expands more on the characters. Regina's outburst at the end after Acro confessed makes me cry every time. Moe was definitely a stand out character too. To be honest, on my first watch, Acro didn't really stand out to me. I could see how sad and tragic his story was but I couldn't really get past the fact that he tried murdering a little girl. But on my rewatch, I appreciated him a little more. Regina talked about how if Bat would look down on them from the stars and if I were in Acro's shoes, I would've gotten mad too. Of course I wouldn't try to kill the poor girl but the anime showed how seeing Regina everyday, the person behind his brother's unfortunate accident, definitely took a toll on him and all of that built up. Regina crying to Acro about how she should be the one locked up instead was one of the most memorable scenes for me in the anime, so I was surprised on how people hated the game version so much.
As for other parts of the case, the circus characters aren't really the unlikeable to me. They're quirky for sure but the conflict between them and Max was really interesting to me. He just wanted them to try harder in their craft but they thought he was being arrogant and pompous about it, which admittedly he was. Still, the anime did show how Russel Barry's death affected them, particularly Moe. I felt for Moe, I didn't realize how much I would like him until he got all serious. You can tell he was really grieving the death of his friend and wanted to be there for his daughter.
This case was heartwrenching and I'm so glad my first experience of it wasn't tainted by a pedophilic love triangle.
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u/paradox222us Aug 22 '24
yeah its pretty bad. Especially that background music when Moe is in a joking mood…. shudder
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u/lizzourworld8 Aug 22 '24
Well, to be fair, that Happy People theme isn’t restricted to 2-3; it plays again when Wendy shows up in the next case in court.
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u/paradox222us Aug 22 '24
idk why i primarily associate it with Moe… its an annoying song and it plays too often regardless 😭😅
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u/Fearless-Function-84 Aug 22 '24
The "Circus" theme is just as bad, if not worse.
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u/notreallygoodatthis2 Aug 23 '24
That's my second most favorite track from the entire case :/ It sets up well the atmosphere.
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u/crunk_buntley Aug 22 '24
yes, it’s bad. the case logic is horrendous (in multiple ways) and the characters are at their worst. acro is one of the best culprits in the franchise but he alone can’t fix things.
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u/bug--bear Aug 22 '24
the whole case is kind of a fever dream, multiple adult men are trying to marry a 16 year old girl with the emotional maturity of a 10 year old, and there's fucking circus music everywhere
it comes down to personal taste, of course, but putting it between two emotionally charged cases with the one after it being widely considered one of the best cases in the whole main series...doesn't do it any favours. the creator wrote it while drunk, so maybe if I replay it while drunk it'd be more fun
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u/RevolutionaryYouth60 Aug 22 '24
I’ve never had a problem with Turnabout Big Top, personally. I don’t get the hate it gets.
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u/PibtTM Aug 22 '24
The only thing that makes it bad is the rampant pedophilia and the way the game frames it like it’s normal. Other than that I think the rest of the case is fine. The only good guy in that circus is Moe.
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u/miloucomehome Aug 22 '24
At the time I found it very tedious and frustrating during part of it that it took me years to complete. If I were to think about it more, perhaps the characters were also frustrating back then?
At the time I just put the game down and started AA3 instead. After 3 or 5 or more years back then I looked for a guide again and finished it and the game (curiously, when I bought the game, shortly before AA4 came out, there weren't many complete guides online at the time until some years later—or that I found or were well written. I've always wondered if the frustration with Big Top was part of that 🤔)
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u/Hansworth Aug 22 '24
I've replayed the trilogy recently and it's really not that bad. 2-2 was much more frustrating to play through and 2-1 being very uninteresting.
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u/Electric_Spark Aug 22 '24
When I think of this case being bad, I don't even consider the characters. My problem with this case is the absolute slog of backtracking on the second day of investigation. Seriously, if you're not playing with a guide, how the hell are you supposed to do it blind? You have to investigate in a very specific order, with a ton of different locations to move between. You can easily spend an hour just running around desperately trying to find people to talk to. Where is Moe? Is he in Moe's Room? No, he's in the Cafeteria, talk to him there! But only after you go investigate a note in the ringmaster's pocket that just looks like a freakin' hankerchief. Otherwise he's not even there! It's a bunch of little issues like that compounding to make me grind my teeth everytime I reach that section on a new playthrough.
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u/astralmelody Aug 22 '24
This is a case where the old map system gets particularly egregious too, making all of that hopping around even more of a pain. Going straight to the tent? No you’re not, you’ve gotta make a stop at the entrance first. From there to the lodging building? Better stop at the entrance again!
I feel like the only other case where it’s this bad is Recipe for Turnabout – if i’m going from my office to the lending agency, is there a good reason I have to fully walk all the way into this cafe AND the playground? No.
Don’t even get me started on how Big Top makes you do all of this while listening to circus music.
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u/Quetzal00 Aug 22 '24
It’s done better in the anime. If you haven’t watched it I recommend doing so
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u/cjokay Aug 22 '24
Personally, I like this case. I wish Regina was older, but the story wouldn't really change much if Regina were like 18 instead of 16.
I liked that Acro never got rattled on the witness stand. That was a fun change from many other antagonists and those little birds he kept sending over were so annoying! A definite "love to hate" situation. I liked the circus setting, with funny moments like a monkey stealing Wright's badge or Regina cheerfully terrorizing him. Regina was fun and I had a good time trying to figure out if she was psychopathic or just a little odd.
As for connections to the greater plot, I liked seeing Wright's complete inability to cope with Edgeworth's disappearance. I liked that Franziska made the same assumption that Wright did, namely that Edgeworth disappeared because he couldn't deal with his own imperfection, and that she took refuge in anger at Wright while Wright himself took refuge in anger at Edgeworth. It's a nice setup for when Edgey comes back and is all like, Hi guys, I know I upset you, sorry I guess but never mind all that, I'm just here to tell you all about the deep insights into law which I returned with. You're excited to hear them, right?
All in all, not my favorite case but one that I had fun with.
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Aug 22 '24
I didn't mind it.
All they need to do is take out the crushing on the underage girl, and it's fine.
Like Moe's testimony is pretty obvious to get around.
My biggest issue is that even though the Bust isn't mentioned until the second investigation, it's fairly easy to piece out the big twist (that the cloak got caught on something and was hoisted up) but Phoenix needs to be led to it (as usual). I'm not a big fan of cases that get unnecessarily get dragged out when the key pieces of evidence are obvious from the start (I'm looking at your Turnabout Samurai...)
Also, fairly big plot hole. There was a moment where Acro mentions that the police let him go to the doctor for an appointment (though he was actually visiting Bat). Didn't that mean he would have had an opportunity to dispose of the Bust or did the police have a close eye on him the whole time? Also, NOT ONE PERSON assisting him going back up those stairs noticed the extra 30-40 pounds he was lugging around?
Also, I don't agree with anybody who feels sorry for Acro. He could have told Russell that his daughter's comments were triggering him and that he needed to properly tell her what she did to his brother or there were going to be problems. It's plainly obvious that Russell knew how serious the issue was, since he took the TO THE MURDERER note serious as the grave, so you'd think these people who were close like family could...y'know, COMMUNICATE.
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u/Mandelevi Aug 22 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
The bust was only there under Acros wheelchair after Franziska ordered a special investigation for all private rooms on the Second Investigation Day, wasn't it? And why he didn't dispose of it ... yes, maybe because somebody would have noticed, if he smuggled it out under his chair. But you can think the other way around: Why didn't anybody notice the weight, when they assisted him going from his room to court? Or did he go there entirely on his own? Don't think about it too much...
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u/RevenueDifficult27 Aug 22 '24
Also, fairly big plot hole. There was a moment where Acro mentions that the police let him go to the doctor for an appointment (though he was actually visiting Bat). Didn't that mean he would have had an opportunity to dispose of the Bust or did the police have a close eye on him the whole time? Also, NOT ONE PERSON assisting him going back up those stairs noticed the extra 30-40 pounds he was lugging around?
I have no idea how he would get rid of the bust in the hospital or somewhere else, but the bust doesn't weigh that much. It was brought by a little monkey, it's clearly not that heavy.
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u/PitifulAd3748 Aug 22 '24
It's not a bad case, but it really is bogged down by mechanics outside of the story, and that godawful song doesn't help.
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u/NalonMcCallough Aug 22 '24
Big Top is one of my favorite cases. Some fans just grt "icked" by certain irrelevant aspect of it.
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u/Due-Order3475 Aug 22 '24
It's a weak case but not terrible.
Worst case is Athena's solo case in 6 I think it was the 4th case? When she has to defend a guy puking...
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u/NintendoMasterNo1 Aug 22 '24
I mean, you can argue that "it's not THAT bad" but when most other cases in the series are better than it, it ends up looking pretty bad. For me it's my second least favorite case in the series because the negatives of the case heavily outweigh the positives.
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u/GovindSinghNarula Aug 22 '24
i hate the clown and i didnt think the development of the villain was that great, or the other characters as such. its fine, I don't hate it, but its too... mid... which fwiw, is bad IMO, considering how good episodes in the series can get
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u/GentGamer94 Aug 22 '24
I don't think it's that bad! It's among my least favorite cases in the trilogy, but there also a LOT of really good cases in these games: even the ones I like less than the others I still like.
I won't spoil Turnabout Big Top for you as you've just started it, but it has some funny moments and emotional highs that make it worth replaying for me and not just skipping even now 🙂
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u/RabidTurtl Aug 22 '24
If you dont look at it too deep its ok. But man, that love triangle is gross, given Regina's age and the age of her suitors.
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u/SnooOnions650 Aug 22 '24
I think a lot of people are making up way too many excuses. I found this case absolutely miserable to play. It's the only one I genuinely wanted to skip.
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u/sheslikebutter Aug 22 '24
Weird pedo stuff aside, it's just so fucking long.
Also every replay I accidentally retrigger Mo's really long jokes by mashing A to try and get out of it
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u/Averiah0 Aug 22 '24
The solution is pretty lame (the cape just happened to snag that way on the bust ?). The circus music is annoying. The "Everyone is in love with Regina" thing is weird.
I actually didn't mind Moe's penalty testimony but yeah, it's a mediocre case and (clearly) the worst of it's game.
Still, it's not the worst of the worse. Turnabout Serenade has some terrible logic as well (Blind child using a magnum , sure...) I'd say the Kidnapped Turnabout is worse overall even if it had some cool moments. (Well, introducing Kay and the Haunted House recreation, everything involving Lance, his son and his girlfriend, meh) And I know people will disagree but I find Rise from the Ashes worse as well.
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u/kylepierce722 Aug 22 '24
While I do think that it is the worst case in the trilogy, I’m still convinced people hate on it just because to hate on it. For me the plot itself is pretty good, but the characters give this case the bad rep it has (except mo. He’s so bad he’s good). The characters are just annoying and downright creepy (Ben and Maximillian they can never make me like you two), so I think the character hate is well deserved
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u/HetaGarden1 Aug 22 '24
It’s not that bad, if you look past some questionable dialogue/plot points. It’s mostly just repetitive, as you have to keep going back and forth (but then again, quite a few cases are too), the music can be a little annoying if you’re stuck, and the culprit is mildly interesting as far as murderers go. The most infuriating parts are Moe’s testimonies and that one part of Acro’s, especially if you don’t have a guide, and Acro tends to be… divisive. Otherwise it’s a passable case.
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u/cosy_ghost Aug 23 '24
It's actually really good. But it has some obvious flaws- like the original music tracks (that are only for that case) being used more than needed. And some slumps in the character interactions (Maya is extra notorious for just repeating dialogue here).
But so much of the case is good. Fun client, great witnesses, and a dark tone that plays into the more horrifying themes of Justice for All. And let's not forget... Larry "Moe" Curls.
Okay maybe you hate Moe but I love Moe I think he's a riot.
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u/SmileHidingPain98 Aug 23 '24
I actually enjoyed Big Top when I first played it last year and I would’ve enjoyed it more… If the Love Triangle either wasn’t a thing (like in the anime) or if Regina was at least of legal age (like in the Backward Rocket Studios dub). Of all the “Case 3 Syndrome” arguments I’ve heard, I don’t disagree with them but I do enjoy the game
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u/Nacil_54 Aug 23 '24
A bit boring, I saw a video compiling the anime moments showing the anime version of the case being better, and it seems better.
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u/Zalveris Aug 23 '24
No Japanese audiences love it it's consistently voted the best case under the usual end ones. Western audiences tend not to like it but also this is reddit and people love complaining.
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u/CooperDaChance Aug 23 '24
It’s fine to me. I liked it overall, however it could use some work.
-The murderer gets too little screentime
-Love triangle ends up adding nothing to the overall case
-Clearly a rehash of Turnabout Samurai (which isn’t a surprise, considering 2-1 and 2-2 are both rehashes of 1-1 and 1-2 respectively)
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u/Vilgoui Aug 23 '24
It's just the love triangle I don't like. That and getting punished for pressing the wrong statement
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u/Dark_Tube-934 Aug 23 '24
It was too long it took forever and it was the only case my brain couldn't function with it even tho the explanation worked(somehow) its still confusing
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u/LRKingPiccoloRevived Aug 23 '24
I feel like I'm the only person who liked having an asshole defendant for once. Felt refreshing after all the obviously innocent, sympathetic defendants.
I was also innocent back then and bought into the idea that Trilo was its own, magical, separate entity from Ben lol
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u/BiggLubo Aug 23 '24
The only thing bad about it is a chunk of the dialogue, mostly for the main characters like Nick and Maya. It’s repetitive, not creative and unfunny. It’s clear this was the least priority case, and knowing the game was rushed, they likely ran out of time for refinements. Translators can’t fix bad dialogue either. The story, mystery, unraveling, and setting are all interesting, so it makes up for it. This was the case that started to include really wacky characters, which have become a staple. They use characters like this in the later games, while unfortunately, forgetting you need all the other stuff too.
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u/MCWDD Aug 23 '24
It’s long, annoying, and I recall the logic didn’t make any sense. It was overall unfun and the first time I stopped having fun with this franchise. Later games would add on to the slog fire (Looking at you T&T), but in the end, this was the worst
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u/Substantial-Force-50 Aug 23 '24
Nah, it's just that the characters are all crazy and morally problematic.
It's not as if they were dumb, bland, the motive made no sense (coughcough3-2coughcough) or the case being boring as rain with witnesses as funny as a war report (coughcough3-3coughcough)
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u/ExaggeratedPW Aug 23 '24
I've always stood by Big Top. I highly recommend Backwards Rocket Studios Dub of the case as that really showcases the case in all of its glory imo. Its a bit irritating, the first time. After that, its an underrated case within an underrated game. Tops Samuria and Recipe for me.
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u/peachybunniez Aug 23 '24
I actually enjoyed that case. I liked it even more than 2-2. It did start off weird with the love triangle thing but the case got more interesting later on imo. I didn’t mind Moe nor Ben either, Richard from 2-1 was the most annoying I could not find anyone more irritating to deal with. I like the case because of how creepy it ended up being, like the motive, the intended victim and the backstory to it.
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u/spacedandyenjoyr Aug 23 '24
i mean it’s not really that bad but the characters are mostly weirdos and they made the main love interest to two grown men an underage girl which is weird asf
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u/Key_Bee_8797 Aug 24 '24
It's not that bad but it has bad moments like the age being questionable but to be honest I think it's moreso an oversight on the developers part since it's never called into question unlike 3-4 where it's pointed out, also the music being the only track that plays which, me personally, I don't mind it at all since I love the circus and the zany antics that comes from it, however if you don't you'll despise the circus theme after a while especially if you get stuck. However I honestly enjoy the case, I think that moments like the cape getting snagged or Moe fucking you over with his testimony is overblown since in my experience there are plenty of moments in this franchise where you'll sit there and think "How the fuck was I supposed to know that that's bullshit!" Alongside the series having out there what the fuck moments. The characters are fun and goofy, and if they're not like with Max, he's unique in the series for being unlike a lot of "damsels in distress" people who couldn't hurt a fly, where in this case he's an asshole who learns from his mistakes which I honestly appreciate a lot it makes him stand out and breaks repetition. Moe's silly and dumb fun while having a nice "Funny guy who knows too much" atmosphere, Acro while being crazy, I think can act somewhat sympathetic since not many killers are fueled by grief.
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Aug 25 '24
Honestly, I think the reason the hate is so prevalent is because the (arguably) best case of the entire series is immediately after. The love triangle is ew, some of the characters’ shticks get old pretty quickly, and some of the music is a little jarring, not to mention its batshit logic (but this is ace attorney, what else did you expect?) so it falls short in many respects but all in all, I’d say it’s more forgettable than outright atrocious. The only reason I personally remember it so vividly is because everyone uses that case as quintessential “Bad” Ace Attorney case. If no one else ever brought it up, I’d dismiss it pretty quickly as “hm that was…let’s just move on”
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u/Miles_Edgeworth_92 Aug 22 '24
I personally hate the case because a majority of the side characters are pedophiles, and they try to make the culprit sympathetic when he really isn't.
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u/Officer_Nunu Aug 22 '24
It’s horrendous, primarily for the numerous suitors vying for for the affection of an underage girl.
I see a lot of people saying that “if you ignore certain aspects then the case is good” but this one singular detail sours a lot. It strips away any sympathy I would have for anyone involved in the case except for Regina herself. And given how intrinsically linked the romance subplot is to the murder case, you can’t really ignore it. You can pretend that a 16-year-old isn’t that age if it helps you, but it’s a really gross detail
1
u/Unlikely-Ad-7155 Aug 22 '24
Yes, it is. The characters are all insufferable, the leaps in logic are even more absurd than any other case up to and after this case, and the icing on the cake is that the suspects are all vying for the attention of an underage girl.
1
Aug 22 '24
Short Answer: Yeah, its pretty bad
Long Answer: Yeah, its REALLY pretty bad. Acro is a horribly botched sympathetic villain, the love triangle was a diagusting addition that also goes nowhere, and about the only nice thing in this case is Franziska gets to show being relatively on the same page as Phoenix (she figures out the Lion accident just by the same evidence as him without him needing to explain, the flying isnt real, etc) actually shows a side of her that isnt as bad as her dad which was needed.
0
u/Acceptable_Star189 Aug 22 '24
This case falls flat on its face in everything it attempts so badly that even with company the case was still unbearable.
I already don’t like the setting or the character designs, the music gets grating after a while.
The character ages destroy the ability to sympathize with characters because even though I don’t necessarily care about it, it still prevents me from having sympathy, never mind Max and Ben being pretty shitty people, regardless of the Regina stuff, and they’re not shitty people in the endearing way like many of the culprits.
Acro’s breaking point being Regina naively talking about people turning into stars that makes him proceed to create an entire murder plan and never once thinks… “This ridiculous, I could solve this issue with words” is dumb, he wouldn’t even need to reveal why Sean got comatos’d, he could’ve just told her to stop talking about Sean around him.
Can’t feel bad for the victim because of the character ages either.
It’s not like the concepts it attempts were doomed, because Turnabout Reclaimed retraces many of the same steps and is in my top 10 cases.
This case just blows on analysis standpoint and a personal taste stand point to me.
0
u/UltraSanemiStan Aug 22 '24
I like it a lot, most people hate it though cause they don't wanna defend the defendant and cause like half the characters introduced in it are pedophiles
78
u/selphiefairy Aug 22 '24
It’s actually one of the more popular cases with Japanese fans, so clearly it’s based on taste.
A lot of English speaking fans find the characters incredibly annoying. I certainly did, and plus the case just seemed so long, but maybe it was exacerbated by the annoyance toward the characters. And it’s like… the middle case in the middle of the trilogy. It just feels like a drag to me.