r/ASU • u/ThrowRAsillylady • 15h ago
Academic dishonesty update
You can look at my previous post about me being accused of academic dishonesty for anyone who doesn’t understand what I’m talking about but a few people requested an update so I just wanted to provide one. But I want to make it clear, i did NOT cheat on my MAT 117 final exam.
Super short summary though, im an ASU online student and im being accused by my professor of cheating on my MAT 117 final exam because I answered a question without a calculator and I erased some of my work on my scratch paper to save space. (I understand that earsing wasnt the smartest idea) I was being recorded by two cameras the whole time, one recording my environment and the other screen recording my screen. Absolutely no cheating occurred on my end and they can see that no cheating occurred in the footage. I really recommend you read the original post before forming an opinion.
Update: Professor Boney (I do not recommend her omg) gave me a zero on my exam that she’s accusing me of cheating on. i emailed her and asked if this zero is permanent or if it’s just temporary until the academic integrity office decides whether they believe i cheated or not. She responded with “That will remain, as there is not any question as to the validity of your original score. Academic integrity however will determine if further penalties are warranted and will be in contact.”
I think that means even if the academic office dismisses it and says i didn’t cheat that means shes still going to leave the zero there?? Or am I misunderstanding what she said? Can someone please clarify and is that even possible to leave my exam score as a zero if I’m found NOT guilty of cheating? Someone please explain.
The academic integrity office essentially said that my punishment will just be a zero on the exam and asked if I want to accept that or if I disagree with the allegations. I took all your advice and responded to the academic integrity office and im going to appeal and fight so hard for this but i dont want to fight to prove my innocence if my score on the test is just going to be left as a zero even if they decide that I didn’t cheat?? I don’t understand what the point is then??
I find this so crazy and bizarre, I went from a B to now a D and I now won’t qualify for nursing school unless I retake the class and I borderline refuse to take a class that I did NOT cheat on. Quite literally TWO cameras were watching me and my screen, they can see NO cheating happened when they review the footage.
This whole experience has honestly made me want to consider attending a different university, ive never been so stressed.
I’m posting my response to the academic integrity office in the comments if anyone is curious as to what i had emailed them.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 14h ago
Your professor is saying that the zero will remain in place until your academic misconduct allegation is resolved. Your grade for that class will also be an incomplete until the allegation is resolved preventing you from registering from the next class since college algebra is a strict prerequisite. Your professor sounds like a total ass. Try to appeal it the best you can because I can imagine that appealing a violation at this school can be incredibly difficult. Considering the board is made up of one student and two faculty members. You can assist your AIO with the investigation, but I highly recommend to be careful with what you say because anything, and I mean anything can be used against you. Your AIO for your college will issue a finial determination of whether or not if you’re guilty. If you’re guilty then you have 10 business days to appeal it, and at that time the sanction will be on hold. Your professor or your AIO carry the burden of proof of not there’s a 50 percent chance or more you committed the allegation in question. The academic integrity process is extremely stressful at ASU. Also, if you kept both of your hands visible throughout the exam then it’s going to be extremely for your professor or your AIO to prove that you cheated.
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 14h ago
Both my hands were shown on camera during the WHOLE duration, not once for even a split second was it out of frame and not once did i look away from the screen unless it was to write on my scratch paper.
Thank you for the explanation and thank you for the warning to be careful with the AIO. I appreciate the help.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 14h ago
No problem. But it’s just going to be extremely difficult for your professor to prove you cheated if both your hands were visible during the exam. She won’t be to support the allegation if she’s only running on the fact that you barely had any work shown. Plus, it’s college algebra not calculus. 😭
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u/ToxicWaste2468 14h ago
This is nuts. I’m pretty sure no one has been flagged for erasing shit on their scratch paper
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u/Ambitious_Berry_9369 12h ago
It sounds like the professor is about to pull the booty beads card...
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u/ASUprofessor 14h ago
Agree with everything here.
It’s not my dept but I find it hard to believe a prof can give you a 0 even if it’s found you didn’t cheat…might require some dept chair involvement if the prof does that and you beat the allegation…but first you have to deal with the academic integrity.
A key part is missing, what are they claiming you did? Used unauthorized material? Had unauthorized help? They have to tell you that as part of the process, similarly they have to specify which problem on the test. It’s a very detailed process and they will give you their evidence so you can develop your rebuttal.
The distinction most depts use is “more likely than not”. I’m not sure how a video of you doing the work and then erasing it proves unauthorized material or help.
Doing it in your head also is not proof you cheated. It depends a bit on how complicated the math was but unless the syllabus states you are expected to turn in your work then I am missing the profs reasoning for not showing your work.
Not sure if anything is missing from your story but a lot of people can do algebra in their head…
My only guess is possibly you were staring at something a ton and they think you had a cheat sheet or something as otherwise I’m missing the more likely than not part.
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 14h ago
She never specified which question(s) she think I’ve cheated on and she never specified what method she thinks I used to cheat.
Although when I received a message from the academic integrity office they said “Section C.2.b. Using or attempting to use unauthorized materials, sources, technologies, devices, or persons in connection with a course or an Academic Evaluation”She said I answered questions without a calculator and my scratch paper doesnt look sufficient enough to prove how I got the answer. (I left a LOT of my work unerased so it’s not like I turned in a half blank paper or something, the paper was full top to bottom with work on it) I can’t recall which exact problems I erased to save space.
The setup of my room was me facing a wall, the camera showed my environment, full upper body, my scratch paper and my computer screen. The second camera captured my face and screen recorded my entire screen. I didn’t turn my head around once, I only ever looked at my screen and paper
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u/ASUprofessor 12h ago
It’s been awhile since I was on the board (they try to have all faculty serve so we understand the process), but if I remember correctly the professor has to put together a packet of material detailing what you cheated on and evidence. This is then provided to you and you detail your side and can counter their evidence. That is then shared with the professor for them to prepare for the hearing.
Ideally they give you the video too. Not sure if possible but you may want to try to screenshot the work you erased.
Personally I have a hard time seeing how this has made it this far but ASU has gotten so strict with cheating due to AI. The professor has to have evidence and specific problems but realize this whole process takes forever and they have weeks/months to look into this so you might not know now but at some point they will tell you and share the evidence.
Just note, many times these cases drag on longer than the course and as it’s a pre-req it’s problematic for spring. I really wish they figured out a better dismissal process or got their act together on these online exams as I have no idea how they can confidently make these claims unless they see someone actually using unauthorized material in the video.
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u/Micheal_Hancho WXLR hall basement dweller 10h ago
Sounds to me that OP was able to input a decimal answer that should be impossible to do without a calculator or some pencil and paper work. For example, can you tell me what pi^2 - 1/sqrt{pi} using mental math? If a student is able to do something like this seemingly out of thin air, then this is pretty damning evidence, especially if they are unable to do something similar when asked by the professor or academic integrity committee.
Also, software exists that can bypass the lockdown browser or honorlock, and unless there is an external camera pointing at OP's computer monitor it is very easy to cheat.
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 14h ago
https://reddit.com/link/pgsgja5/video/6736xiplkivh1/player
Here’s a lengthy screen recording of my response to the academic integrity office for anyone curious
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u/Cute-Ad-597 14h ago
It’s get taken into consideration, but they are still going to investigate you.
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u/Electivil Electrical Engineering '27 (undergraduate) 14h ago
So what calculations were you making without a calculator?
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 14h ago edited 14h ago
I don’t know, I did a handful of them without a calculator. I don’t know which exact one she’s accusing me of cheating on because she never specified. If it’s a multiple choice im usually guessing half the time and if I get it wrong I do the one allowed retake and pray my second guess is right. Regardless though, i did my math on paper. Yes I was dumb and shouldn’t have erased some of my work to save space on paper but if she watches the footage she can see me doing A LOT of writing and erasing on paper for several minutes just to answer one question. Also I left a good amount of work unerased. I just can’t tell you which one because I don’t even know which question im being accused of cheating on. But I also didnt ace the test either i recieve a low b, almost a c
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u/Electivil Electrical Engineering '27 (undergraduate) 14h ago
Well shit I figured they could at the very least let you know what you’re specifically accused of.
Honestly though if you didn’t cheat you’ll probably be exonerated.
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u/ToxicWaste2468 13h ago
https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor/1071117
….lol. I’m fully invested now.
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u/OneWithTheSword 11h ago
Why do they have these miserable ass people teaching students. The amount of shit professors in STEM is annoying. It gets worse in the upper level courses where you sometimes don't even have a choice.
I dropped so many classes I was failing, just to take a better professor and get an A+. Grades shouldn't depend on whether or not the professor is a dick or an actual teacher.
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u/ChoppyOfficial 9h ago
That professor's value is their research
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u/Fnordmeister 8h ago
Not for Teaching Professors. If a TP can do research, ASU says that's great, but it's not expected.
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 11h ago
Jesus she sounds terrible. I'm amazed they keep professors like her around (yeah, i get tenure, but fuck, c'mon).
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u/Fnordmeister 8h ago edited 8h ago
I thought Isaac Newton was dead ...
((extra)) It's been a while since I checked my rating at RMP. Wow.
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u/Lanky-Dragonfly8168 forensic psych ‘27 8h ago
Wowowowow I’m shocked they’re so bad. Why does Asu keep professors like this 😭
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u/Agile-Objective1000 major 'year (undergraduate) 13h ago
If it ends up appealed and they don't change it back, you can contact the dean.
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u/Budget-Struggle-3800 14h ago
I genuinely don't understand how erasing a problem would constitute as cheating
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u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 13h ago
You have the right to appeal any accusation of academic integrity, which is why you were asked if you agree with the decision.
Otherwise, fight it and fight like hell. The professor cannot give you a zero if a board decides you did not cheat (or that there is not sufficient evidence of cheating).
If she does, you can appeal the grade. And I sure would.
Update on me: I applied to become a student advocate for situations like this with the business school. Don’t know if I’ll be accepted, but wanted to at least apply :)
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 13h ago
I never knew you can appeal a grade, thank u for that information. I’ll be fighting to the best of my ability & please keep me updated on whether you get accepted or not! Good luck to you, im wishing you the best !! :))
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u/ConsistentTurnover18 14h ago
The software probably flagged you and your prof doesn't trust any of their students. These tenured professors are pretty lazy sometimes
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 11h ago
ASU Online is a joke. They neglect us and then pull bs like this.
I said it in another comment, but I would never recommend ASUO to anyone or do it again.
Did it out of necessity because we keep moving around and my program was offered here- (anthropology doesn't have a lot of online programs) and then the VA made me go to the same school for my Master's. Once I'm done, I'm done. This is insane and your case is just icing on the cake.
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u/Relative_Original400 9h ago
Can you tell me more about the VA making you go to the same school for your Master's? You just awakened a terror in me that I will be forced to continue with this school.
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 8h ago
I use VR&E and my counselor put ASU as the school I'll do my Master's at in the rehab plan and she wouldn't change it for a different program/school and or let me do a PhD, so she let me swap to Psychology when she realized they don't have an anthropology Master's. It just wasn't worth the headache dealing with her to try and change it so here I am lol
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u/Fnordmeister 8h ago
I teach online courses. Well, "teach" isn't the right word; "administrate" is closer. My advice is always: Don't take them unless you can't get an in-person class.
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u/ToxicWaste2468 14h ago
Did she instruct the class to show the scratch paper before the test by chance? Or did you somehow show it during your room scan?
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 14h ago
I showed it during my room scan, I put it right in front of the camera and I made sure to flip the paper over to show it was blank on both sides
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u/protein-cig 9h ago
Prof boney sucks so bad. I’m one of the only people in my class that passed the final- and by the skin of my teeth. She doesn’t teach, she’s rude, and she almost gave me a 0 because I had to get a lamp when honor lock started my quiz, and then paused it a few minutes later to say my room was too dark
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u/Tuna_police 13h ago
This is a consistent problem with the ASU online math department both of my friends who fried and had to retake MAT 343 and i had to help one fighting it and going up to a dean to petition it good luck buddy
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u/Background_Pin6541 13h ago
I was going to do math at ASU online as an out of state person and I think this is my sign not to fill out my application.
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 13h ago
Please don’t. Removing my bias from this issue i have going on, once I posted about this situation i received so many messages on here of people expressing that they’ve faced similar situations in their math classes at asu online.
I know everyone’s experience is different but I don’t think it’s worth the gamble at all. I would’ve never expected this to happen to me and I wish I did more research before selecting a professor
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u/Tyler_H440 12h ago
From my personal experience also, you’re better off taking math elsewhere. Every professor I had is none existent in the class and you’re left on your own. I took math at Rio Salado and the professors there were nice, the proctoring is better and easier to tell if someone is cheating on exams.
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 11h ago
Screw that 100%. Go somewhere else. I would never recommend anyone go to ASU, especially not for math.
If you have a problem being proctored, they'll tell you to get bent, drop the class and sign up for a different one. Thing is, they all use honorlock or respondus. And ALEKS is the worst program on the planet if you're not great at math.
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u/Background_Pin6541 10h ago
Yeah I was wanting to do biology cell and genetics bachelors and I know it requires math and I said I could take my classes at community college and they told me I should go ahead and transfer instead of wasting time at community college
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 10h ago
Jesus dude. Not surprised though, how else would they be #1 if everyone did the bs courses at CC
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u/Background_Pin6541 10h ago
I thought it was cheaper to do the core classes like math and such then transferring so it was kind of odd to me.
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u/Background_Pin6541 13h ago
Why am I getting downvoted lmao for a simple statement. I just talked to an advisor today and the amount of issues on here make me feel like it's possibly a sign to do something closer to home.
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u/MalibuBeachLife 14h ago
Sorry this happened to you. There must be a better way to assess learning instead of software that assumes you're guilty until proven innocent. Good luck!
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u/LibrarianFamiliar420 12h ago
Fight, fight like hell. For one, I absolutely hate honorlock and ASUs entire proctoring process. And I've got 3 degrees from two other state universities so I've been through all sorts of versions of proctoring. Make sure if the syllabus says anything about erasing being an issue. If it does then that could torpedo you. But the thing is, beyond the grade, you DO NOT want academic dishonesty to be lurking in your record when you go to apply to another school or your nursing program. My newest class says we cant erase and dictates the number of scratch paper we have. The part that gets me angry, is there's all these rules, we have 2 cameras watching us, our screen is recorded, locked, and we are monitored. The the professors review all these hours of records, and our scratch papers, and then want to find some small, wild, discrepancy and try to ruin us. Also, I don't know about your class, but mine has felt like the professor doesnt even teach, everything is pre recorded and done through edintify. They must spend all there time reviewing honorlock records and our scratch work. And on top of all that, you don't get any partial credit for work shown so why does it even matter if we show work at all if it's something you can do in your head? Freaking nuts.
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u/Fnordmeister 8h ago
After a year, a student can petition to have an academic dishonesty removed from their transcript.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 2h ago
It’s not on your external record. It’s only on your internal unless you get an xe
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u/Satosugusbby 7h ago
Bcs of you and everyone in the comments I IMMEDIATELY switched rn at midnight from this Boney to another professor! Idk if they’re just as bad or not but they had ‘better’ reviews on rate my professor. So I just wanted to thank you, so thank you ALL SERIOUSLY!
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u/vividcarbon 11h ago
Hi! Please report her straight to the dean as soon as you can. This is ridiculous and looking at her ratings she has done this before and will do it again
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u/Livid-Debit-Card 13h ago
Did this “office” review the footage?
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 13h ago
I haven’t heard anything back from them yet so I’m not sure, i dont really know how long it would take for them to review the footage and get back to me. Someone had left a comment saying the whole process could take months
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u/Fnordmeister 8h ago
They review footage in general. I had a student in one of my classes who was caught cheating, and I sent in the video.
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u/beeferoni_cat 13h ago
This entire thing sucks. It should be that they have to prove YOu cheated, not the other way around. This could put someones livelihood at risk.
I hope it works out. I agree, blast it on other socials.
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u/sushinoche 8h ago
Fight it. Even if you still get a zero. You don''t want that on you academic record.
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u/ToxicWaste2468 13h ago
Wait why couldn’t you use a calculator? For what topics?
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 13h ago
I didn’t have access to the desmos calculator. My roommate broke my laptop and allowed me to use hers until she could pay me back (she never paid me back) so I was stuck using her really old beat up 2018 dell laptop. It had so many issues with the keyboard, touchpad and just the whole laptop in general wasn’t properly working. The screen would randomly turn black for short periods of time and a new issue that transpired was that it sometimes didnt let me switch tabs (which I needed to do in order to access the desmos calculator) I emailed my professor about all these issues just so she would be aware if my screen ever went black or why I wasn’t using a calculator.
Fortunately on the test my screen didnt go black but unfortunately it was bugging and I couldn’t switch tabs. It let me switch tabs a small amount of times so I was able to answer some with a calculator, on other questions when it wasn’t responsive i had to unfortunately try to do all the math myself. I’m not sure which exact question it is she thinks I cheated on. I know I erased some of my written work to save space but the scratch work was completed top to bottom with my work on it. I really don’t know which question it was that she suspects cheating.
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u/Fnordmeister 8h ago
If you were allowed access to the Desmos calculator, it would have shown up as a link on the webpage where you took your test. If the link wasn't there, the test was set up badly.
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u/smallfloralprince 12h ago
See if this is a situation a university Ombudsperson could help you with?
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u/foodisspicy11 PhD Student in ECEE 11h ago
Student member at the AIO (fulton). If you did not cheat, fight it. Collect as much evidence. They need proof that “it is more likely that not that you might have violated AIO” and if you didn’t, appeal it. They have student representatives and multiple people listening to your appeal.
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u/Top-Outlandishness24 9h ago
Yeah I disliked boney so much that I dropped that class within the first 2 weeks, it is mat 210 and I am a freshman so I will just take it next year but yeah, anybody taking math beware of her as she is horrendous at her job of teaching.
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u/RichGuarantee7482 31m ago
Do not fight it. The people who say "fight" do not know what happens in the appeal hearing. The professor and her pals will gang up on you. There can be 150% evidence that you never cheated and 250% that she is wrong. It doesn't matter. The professor/college will never lose in the appeal hearing and you'll get an XE on your transcript.
Just withdraw from the class and retake it. You can also take it online at community college if you don't want to deal with ASU. It sucks but its better than ruining your nursing dreams.
edit: i'm talking about the appeal hearing after the integrity office makes a decision to give you a 0.
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u/Electronic-Check1137 14h ago
Might wanna get your lawyer by now.
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u/Khasimir 13h ago
Yea at this point it's like paying for a service, getting denied the service under false pretenses, keeping the money.
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u/thegoatofhoops 14h ago
Damn, if you have the funds I think this is where lawyers get involved
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u/Plenty-Bad7659 14h ago
For what? You can’t bring a lawyer to an academic hearing. Both the student and instructor may be accompanied by an advisor who can confer with them, but advisors typically cannot directly address the panel. I think a lawyer would only be needed if this student was forced to retake the class at a cost and they would just be asking for a refund due to an unproven allegation and faulty hearing process that would’ve led them to receive an X or Incomplete unnecessarily. But I’m not sure how successful that endeavor would be…
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u/Fnordmeister 8h ago
Actually you can. (Or at least, you used to.) That happened at a meeting where one of my students cheated.
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u/Brentseal11 13h ago
Sounds like a retarded teacher I can easily do basic algebra in my head even some calculus 1
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u/ChoppyOfficial 14h ago
Here is what you should do. Download these important things
* Your professor's syllabus, the entire syllabus.
* Announcement of the exam date and rules. They usually send in through your student GMail account. Download that email chain. If not in email, screenshot the message from Canvas
* Professor accusing you of cheating email chain.
When you get your meeting, you can proof to them that you did not cheat by them not mentioning anything that erasing answer is not allowed by using the syllabus and the exam rules as proof. If that rule is mentioned anywhere in writing and has been received to you. The professor will give you that proof at the point. The odds of winning an appeal drops dramatically.
Professors need to be detailed and fully explain in writing of their exam policy and what is not allowed. For this situation, it should not warrant cheating. All the erasing answer does from my experience taking calculus classes is you just lose more points on not showing work but it should not warrant cheating. Professors always have no limits on how many scratch paper you need.
Appeal and fight that thing. One thing from this experience is you will learn to protect yourself