r/bookclub • u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles • Apr 20 '26
The Odyssey [Discussion 6 of 8] (Bonus Book) - The Odyssey by Homer – Books XV – XVII
What a week! As many people cooler than me have said, “It’s about to go down!” These three books act as the buildup to justice!
Book XV
Athena goes to Sparta and tells Telemachus it is time to return to Ithaca. She warns him that the suitors have set an ambush for him, so he must travel carefully and avoid them. Before leaving, Telemachus receives gifts and hospitality from Menelaus and Helen. Meanwhile, back in Ithaca, Odysseus is still disguised as a beggar and staying with the swineherd Eumaeus, who proves his loyalty through his kindness and storytelling. Eumaeus tells Odysseus about his own past and about the disorder in Odysseus’s household. By the end of the book, Telemachus has safely returned to Ithaca and heads first to Eumaeus’s hut rather than going straight to the palace.
Book XVI
Telemachus arrives at Eumaeus’s hut and is warmly welcomed. At first, he does not recognize the beggar as his father. After Eumaeus leaves to bring news of Telemachus’s return to Penelope, Athena restores Odysseus’s appearance, and Odysseus reveals his true identity. Father and son are finally reunited after many years apart. They weep together, then begin planning how to defeat the suitors. Their plan depends on secrecy, patience, and timing: Odysseus will continue to pretend to be a beggar while Telemachus helps remove weapons from the hall. The book ends with growing tension in the palace, as the suitors learn Telemachus has escaped their ambush and Penelope rebukes them for plotting against her son.
Book XVII
Telemachus goes back to the palace and is reunited with Penelope. He tells her about his journey, and the prophet Theoclymenus suggests that Odysseus is already near. Soon after, Eumaeus brings Odysseus, still disguised as a beggar, into town and then to the palace. On the way, Odysseus is insulted and kicked by the goatherd Melanthius, showing how far respect and order have collapsed in his household. One of the most moving moments of the book comes when Odysseus is recognized by his old dog, Argos, who has been neglected for years; after seeing his master again, Argos dies. Inside the palace, Odysseus observes the suitors’ arrogance firsthand. He begs among them and is abused, especially by Antinous, who strikes him. Penelope hears about the stranger and asks to see him later, setting up the next stage of Odysseus’s return and revenge.
Summaries can be found at Cliffnotes, and Sparknotes.
6
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
- The Argos scene is brief but famous. Why do you think that moment affects so many readers?
6
u/Ser_Erdrick Professor of the Author Profile Apr 20 '26
Having just lost a beloved pet cat (RIP Harry), I totally understand it. Argos is the loyal hound of Odysseus who waited. It affects so many of us because we know what it's like to lose a loyal companion.
4
u/missanthrp Apr 27 '26
This is so true. The bond we have with our animal companions is so powerful, and for anyone who has the privilege of experiencing that kind of loyalty, the Argo scene hits hard.
I'm sorry for your loss and that you're going through that.
5
u/KatiesGoldenDust My Mate Apr 21 '26
I am one of those people who are way more affected by animal deaths than human ones. So for me, this was the true tragedy of the tale
5
u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Apr 21 '26
Same, and to hear that the poor old boy was being neglected in the mud...ugh just so heartbreaking 😔
4
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 21 '26
I agree. He was just forgotten. That's what got me. What a very odd detail to add to the story. It is very specific and painful.
5
u/Lachesis_Decima77 Tea Connoisseur ⭐️🧠🥉 Apr 21 '26
Argos is the goodest boy who got to see his human one last time for being such a loyal pooch. Reminds me of Hachiko, in a way.
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 21 '26
Well I am ugly crying at my desk. Not really. But omg what a wonderfully sad story. I see the similarities for sure.
2
u/IraelMrad Marius Hater #1 | 🐉|🥇|🧠💯 Apr 26 '26
I think not many of us can relate to being away from home for 20 years without hearing from your wife and your son, but almost all of us have felt the love for a pet. There is something so beautiful about the universality of human emotions and love, and the way this scene has resonated with us for thousands of years.
1
u/toomanytequieros Book Sniffer 👃🏼📖 ||🧠🥉 Jul 17 '26
Ugh, the fact that he could finally rest in peace because his master returned... heartbreaking. A reminder to bring some tissues when I go see the film this Sunday.
5
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
- Let’s all take a moment to toast Eumaeus. What did you think of him?
6
u/Ser_Erdrick Professor of the Author Profile Apr 20 '26
Awesome dude. Totally loyal to his king even though he's been gone for ~20 years and also practices xenia perfectly as well.
3
5
u/Lachesis_Decima77 Tea Connoisseur ⭐️🧠🥉 Apr 21 '26
And you, Eumaeus, were so blessed by Father Zeus that your author thought you were awesome, too.
6
u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Apr 21 '26
Possibly the best (as in morally) character in the whole story. I was struck at how he treated Telemachus, like a surrogate son.
2
u/missanthrp Apr 27 '26
Agree! And Eumaeus/Telemachus even got to have a very father/son reunion scene, likely one that Odysseus wanted himself. Right in front of him, too!
4
Apr 20 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
In comparison to the goat herder he seemed pretty awesome.
3
u/KatiesGoldenDust My Mate Apr 21 '26
Eumaeus is the best! We should all be so lucky to have a Eumaeus in our lives
2
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
- According to Athena, “You know how women are- they want to help the house of any man they marry.” What did you think of this line when you read it?
6
u/KatiesGoldenDust My Mate Apr 21 '26
I think she meant women are loyal to their families. Which is true of some. But women aren't a monolith, so it's nothing something to heavily take to heart.
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 21 '26
I got totally bent out of shape. My initial thought was maybe she is taking things that remind her of the first part of her life because nostalgia. But the more I think about it translations aren't perfect and I can calm down.
2
u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Apr 21 '26
I'd be very curious to see other translations of this (I believe you are quoting the Emily Wilson because this looks similar to mine). This wasn't the only "How women are" comment. I wonder if the original is a generalization, but given a more negative connotation here with the "You know how women are" line.
4
u/missanthrp Apr 27 '26
I saw this particular instance two ways (but I'm not discounting how...dismissive the text can be of women).
Athena is trying to get Telemachus to rush home, so she's being hyperbolic: "Dude you better get home fast, who knows what your mom is doing, she might already be moving her things into a new home, you know how women love to nest!"
Since this is said in relation to Penelope, there are a few instances where Athena, even Telemachus, doubt her resolve, which creates dramatic tension. We think Penelope is loyal to Odysseus, but is she really, and how long can she actually hold out against the suitors?
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 28 '26
I could banter with you all day! Both of those points are on point. Boy do I need to re-read this section without such a sh*tty attitude! The subtle nuances are getting lost on me.
It is sound advice to anyone who is in Telemachus or Odysseus's shoes.
3
u/llmartian Attempting 2025 Bingo Blackout Jun 18 '26
I totally agree that it could be for the dramatic tension. Trying to get the reader to doubt Penelope may make it more important for Odysseus to act quickly
4
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
- What’s up with the robe Helen gifts Telemachus?
3
2
u/llmartian Attempting 2025 Bingo Blackout Jun 18 '26
I think it is mostly just a really impressive gift to give. Made with her own, very famous hands, for his future bride. High xenia power
4
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
- Before Telemachus sails again a stranger approaches him and admits to being on the run for murder. He then asks to go with them. Telemachus says sure. What do you think about that random detail and side story?
2
u/IraelMrad Marius Hater #1 | 🐉|🥇|🧠💯 Apr 26 '26
Lol nowadays it would be such a wild story. I wonder if it was fine because at the time things like this were less regulated by law?
2
u/llmartian Attempting 2025 Bingo Blackout Jun 18 '26
I was like 'dude, you should probably get the full story of that murder before sailing off with him' but idk guess murder was a more chillax concept at the time
1
u/toomanytequieros Book Sniffer 👃🏼📖 ||🧠🥉 Jul 17 '26
Haha yeah that seems so random, but it seems to be here to demonstrate how pure and how great of a host (xenia-giver) Telemachus is.
5
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
- If you were Christopher Nolan filming this part of the book, what scene would be the emotional centerpiece?
9
u/Ser_Erdrick Professor of the Author Profile Apr 20 '26
Probably the reunion between father and son. Odysseus has not seen Telemachus in two decades and Telemachus has never known his father. That's how I would do it.
3
u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Apr 21 '26
I hope so. I don't know what to expect from this movie. I'm excited to see the Odyssey on the big screen, and I am a fan of Christopher Nolan films. I'm prepared for it to be lackluster though.
4
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 21 '26
I'm stoked as well. I hope it's not lackluster. But maybe if I expect that then I'll be pleasantly surprised.
2
u/IraelMrad Marius Hater #1 | 🐉|🥇|🧠💯 Apr 26 '26
I was a bit worried by some of the stills that have been released because visually speaking it wasn't looking particularly interesting. I think this is a story that should have a very distinct visual identity to look convincing.
8
u/YewBetcha 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Apr 21 '26
Nice try, Christopher Nolan!I like u/Ser_Erdrick's suggestion a lot. If we can look slightly outside this section, my other thought was the end of Book XIII when Odysseus finds out he's truly made it back to Ithaca. There's still a lot of action that follows, but I can see that being the end of a certain amount of emotional tension.
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 21 '26
Oooh I really like this. It has been a one man story and journey throughout. That would be a perfect scene.
5
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 21 '26
It's Argos all the way. Duh :)
2
u/missanthrp Apr 27 '26
I'm with you on this. The slight wag of the tail, the immediate recognition despite Odysseus disguise. Yup. Done.
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
- How did you feel about the reunion between Odysseus and Telemachus? Did it land emotionally for you, or did it feel restrained?
6
u/Lachesis_Decima77 Tea Connoisseur ⭐️🧠🥉 Apr 21 '26
I think what I liked best about this scene is how they both openly weep. This reunion has been 20 years in the making that it needed more than a clap on the back.
5
u/KatiesGoldenDust My Mate Apr 21 '26
It was restrained in the sense that Odysseus can't come out and declare that he's back yet. But I don't think the emotions between father and son were restrained at all. I thought it was a beautiful reunion
3
u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Apr 21 '26
I thought their reunion was poignant. I can connect emotionally to that more than a lot of the other more fantastical events.
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 21 '26
Valid. Seeing as this was originally a spoken story it would have wanted to accomplish just that. Nailed it.
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
- Athena reveals herself to Telemachus numerous times. How is she appearing when not obviously impersonating someone? In a vision, dream, etc.
1
u/llmartian Attempting 2025 Bingo Blackout Jun 18 '26
I've been imagining like a slenderman figure in the distance, staring, beaming her thoughts into his head. I think thats the funniest way to go
1
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26
- What would you like to talk about?
3
u/YewBetcha 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Apr 27 '26
I'm coming all the way back to last week's post because I forgot to mention my favorite translation from Fagles in book XV when Odysseus says "catch my drift" on line 354. I don't know why I found it so funny, but it's always interesting to find modern turns of phrase like that cropping up.
4
u/missanthrp Apr 27 '26
I loved that too! A similar one that caught my eye, also Fagles, Book 12 line 246: "cramping my style."
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
Bahahahahaha I would LOVE to stumble upon that. I am reading Emily Wilson. Which has made it quite digestible. But it has also left me wanting for more. Akin to your experience.
5
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 20 '26