r/bookclub • u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea • Aug 30 '26
Hainish Cycle series [Discussion 1/2] (Bonus Book) City of Illusions by Ursula K. Le Guin - Ch. 1-5
Welcome!
Welcome to the fifth book in our series on the Hainish Cycle books by Ursula K. Le Guin! My name is Manjusri, here again! The third book in the publishing order, this is a striking example of Le Guin's anthropological focus and strong Taoist influences and is also a very clear work about when and how it fits in the Hainish Cycle timeline, so please jump in (and as always there's the older threads for the other books. And feel free to comment in those, I'm still around!).
Please note that this is the fifth book chronologically (not by publishing order), and tentatively we are covering them by this order (more information, including about supplemental material, in the Marginalia):
- Please only comment about things in the story up to that point! If you've read ahead or read the other prospective books that take place after, please skip the discussion questions, etc.
- Chapter Summaries are below but click the individual In-depth Summary links for more detail.
- Example discussion questions will go in their own comments, but please feel free to add your own and/or your own reading impressions!
Chapter Summary
Chapter 1
A mute man with eyes full like a cat's breaks from the shadowy forest into a bring Clearing, where Parth, 15, finds him and undertakes his care. Her father and leader of the House, Zove, thinks perhaps he is their great enemy, the Shing, but there are no answers as they find the man has a memory like that of a baby's. The residents of this Forest community have some skill at the telepathic sending and reading that is not uncommon in this world, but they get nothing but confusion from the man who arrived wearing nothing but an unmarked gold ring. Because of their enemy the Shing and their unusual mental abilities (we shortly find out, among other abilities that make mental communication with them dangerous, they are the only ones that can lie with it) there is a discussion about if they should kill him, but instead Parth takes sympathy on him and the younger of the group undertake his (re) raising, including teachings from the Canons. Blood tests are undertaken and we learn more about the world here, they are Terrans (tying it more into the series) and the man, whom they name Falk, seems similar to them except for his eyes which are unlike anything known and a very slight coloring difference. Several days later Parth visits Falk and he seems preoccupied with trying to grasp the sun.
Falk displays growth during the seasons, in the Winter there is an anecdote where he displays sensitivity to a Hainish musical instrument.
About a year after his arrival Falk is curious and asks questions about the world, with him seeming to have some memory or impression of the land as seen from high above.
Autumn now, about five and a half years since he arrived, Falk and Parth are now together as a couple when they hear an aircar (tied to the Shing) far off. There's a cursory description of their history and other worlds' but it is so long ago and so far away it's unsure how much is myth and how much is true. Falk sees this community slightly different, having fled the forest to this comfortable futuristic community, than the residents who view it as a compromise to the old ways and this view pops up and is challenged/modified throughout the rest of the book. Falk is supposed to go on a hunting trip but is instead taken aside by Zove and the reality of him leaving and learning who he is (and what a "man" is supposed to be) is brought forth, we learn Falk is just slightly different genetically from them but thinks of himself as an off-worlder for some reason, furthermore the Canon is brought up and it starts to reveal things about this world. Zove questions so much of his preconceptions and convictions, a possibility that Falk is some programmed and controlled being comes up. We learn more about the Shing, the "enemy" from the other books, the destruction of the World of Leagues, and their influence on human evolution according to the Forest people and others, but so much is mysterious. The Shing apparently allow people to exist in little groups because they do not see them as a threat. Zove says that man is not truly living, once they "'did Man's work'" but no more, and draws comparison to what was taken from Falk and the limited way in which people are allowed to live, it is stressed the relationship between Falk's truth and the possibility of hope, of human development. It becomes obvious Falk has had thoughts or compulsions to leave and find truth but brings up Parth, Zove rejoices in their relationship but can't allow her to go with him. It's unclear why but they both know he is to head west, and they undertake a plan for him to do so in the winter, separating from a small group that has a task.
Chapter 2
Falk and Parth have a difficult parting and we learn a lot about the Shing and mindspeech and the dangers even of using it today. She considers herself a widow in perpetual mourning as soon as he leaves. She even points out the possibility of his ring but he doesn't care about the past as he considers himself who he is now because of her.
The three men leave and Falk takes among other things winterclothes, a laser-beam gun, and a book from Zove. Metock is not sorry to see him go even knowing him five years due to Metock's protection of his House but at least he sends him on the correct path. It's been sixty or seventy years since anyone has gone down that road, and once Falk answers that he is going to Es Toch there is no more questions. Alone days pass on this road, Falk realizing it is an ancient highway overgrown with forest. Falk is haunted by two evil dreams, one where he is vaguely being stalked in the darkness, and another where he had forgotten to bring something essential with him, and he wakes knowing it is true and "it was himself he had forgotten". He would take comfort when consulting the Old Canon which says "when all ways are lost the Way lies clear". Thirteen days since Falk started his journey, eleven on this trail, he finds Hirand House but it is nothing but ruins. Eventually he finds a trail and a half-mile square of perfect glass, and though unsure exactly what it is, communication or a weapon or whatever, he is sure it, a "greater work", had caused the Shing to destroy the House. Falk enters the forest directly and eventually finds a valley and is happy, but suddenly he feels that stalking feeling like in the dreams and comes across a boar, who tells him to mindspeak with it because speaking is difficult for it. Falk refuses and the boar splits when Falk threatens it, and though animals talking was known it was taught only in myths. Falk is rightfully freaked out and continues, finding cattle and then a house. He rushes to the proof of civilization but is incapacitated by something invisible before he reaches the door. He wakes in a strange place without any of his gear and is questioned by people, it comes about that they used a drug to probe his mind while he was unresponsive but they don't believe it or what he says and find his physical features and mind strange. They think he is the enemy and perhaps even "programmed" though the drug very likely would've figured that out, and he is tortured. They call themselves killers, free men, and kill not just the servants and talking animals from the Shing but anyone, in defiance of the Shing's law of non-killing. They throw him into a type of cellar with a myriad of rooms going endlessly and where he is surrounded by nothing but darkness and whispering mice he threatens to kill in defense, and he almost dies of thirst. In desperation he mindspeaks a portion of the Old Canon and this apparently is enough for one of the man to free him (that they were afraid to kill him even) and force him to leave, and he risks asking for and receiving most of his gear minus the book and some of the silver. He remembers and understands something Zove said, realizing he knew only compassion from the Forest people and was shocked by the contagious hate of the people in what he has named the house of Fear, and seeks to avoid civilization from now on as he heads endless days westward through the forest.
Chapter 3
Falk makes his way west and comes across a tributary of a notable landmark, the Inland River. Hunting he wings a wild hen but when he picks it up it starts shrieking about taking life, and he wrings its neck. Falk knows this means men must be around (and in fact later there are more clear hints of this), so he travels even more cautiously. Eventually he comes to a cabin and his curiosity and lack of civilization and comforts get to him, and he watches it in the dark. Suddenly it opens up and an old man beckons him into the light and Falk does so almost ritualistically. The old man, All-Alonio, is a very eccentric Listener, while he won't use mindspeech he is empathically attuned to passively picking up others thoughts and motives, and a Thurro-dowist with knowledge of the Canon that Falk follows and seems to know more about Falk and what will happen than Falk does. Among other tidbits he questions that Falk should've eaten the bird he killed (taking seriously the Shing's law) and tells him that in Es Toch the Shing are few in number. He also quotes things which may or may not sound familiar and calls some it the Younger Canon. Falk stays two more days and during it the old man mentions Falk will have to go beyond Es Toch (though man knows the world is round and later the old man wonders if his journey loops to home), and he calls Falk the Messenger and to mistrust hens but give regards to any Princes and Wanderers, including one called Henstrella. He is given a slider vehicle that he can use outside of the forest, which is particularly unusual because Thurro-dowists use little technology and this old man uses markedly less. The old man also says that it is possible to hide things in a man's mind, and on leaving him Falk calls the old man tiokioi which Falk thinks means father in an unknown language. Falk continues mainly on the slider, which he finds uninteresting and even risks learning tricks with it. One day he comes across a boat with gold haired people that look similar in appearance and who sing to him, they beckon him to follow in Galaktika, an old League tongue people learn and the precursor to their modern speech but which is only used in reading old texts or in communication when local dialects are too incompatible. Falks asks who they are and they say men, and their charm is seemingly instantly extinguished during which Falk feels like he is holding the bird again, and he speeds away. Looking back the boat seems to be gone. The word they had used for city, elonaae, doesn't exist anymore and certainly not in the Eastern Forest, though he seems to have had a physical impression of a city. Days later he reaches the humongous Inland River, known even hundreds of miles away back east in the Houses, and he is out of the forest. Now he sees the horizon and is able to head straight west, and he feels like he's come out of darkness to light, a huge Clearing. He wonders why nobody has journeyed this way to this. The next day as he is skillfully guiding a slider a bird seems to be aiming at him, he shoos it as it gets bigger and he has to duck under his slider, until it is a tiny steel craft smashing into him and he falls into bottomless darkness.
Chapter 4
We find out Falk, called Horressins, has been captured, a fellow prisoner has healed him and bandaged his eyes to keep the Mzurra Society of the Basnasska Nation, a group of animistic and barbaric anti-technological slaver/hunters, from finding out he is different because otherwise they would kill him. Falk meanwhile has become a Hunter due to a ritual they have of giving newborns (or the least powerful or invalid captives, in Falk's case) the name, rank, and other factors of the recently dead via a torturous ritual in order to dissipate the dead's evil ghosts. His friend, Estrel, was lost on the plain and joined the tribe in lieu of starving to death. It hints that she has a code involving not asking much or giving much information and this is expanded on and complicates the story as it goes on. Estrel makes a plan for them to escape during a snowstorm to an Old Place she knows in Samsit a few miles west. During one of their private conferences a fellow hunter interrupts and asks if Falk is taking the "'Red Woman'" for the night and it's not until after he answers in the negative and she is taken away that he realize what that even meant, and he feels he let her down in a complicated manner both as a human and a man. The next night, likely because of this and because it's probably one of the last snowstorms of the season, he convinces her that they have to leave that night, though it complicates matters as she's required in another's tent. As they prepare to leave with the gear Estrel has acquired the man arrives and Falk kills him with the laser gun that they let him keep as a Hunter before the man can sound out any alarm, and they leave in this surreal scene (the book likely stressing this because of the Law). Traveling in swirling darkness only via a smuggled compass and the limited light from the laser gun, Falk has to leash themselves together so they don't get separated. Even with everything Estrel is acting oddly, and she asks him about why he had to kill the man, even though as soon as she asks it she immediately knows he couldn't risk to do anything else. During a particularly bad fall in a small icy river he calls her pet names as if she were Parth, and they trudge on getting more and more delirious. Eventually they find a metal hatch in the ground into an enormous room where they build a fire and eat. They talk of the place and Falk realizes it must be the ancient cellar of a mighty house, Estrel says it's rumored that a whole ancient city connects here (and somewhat later he explores it a little and can't get anywhere before he has to turn back due to hunger). When asks we learn a bit more of her submissiveness and the code, she says she's a Wanderer and he notices a jade amulet. He knows little of them except what he has heard fits more the stereotypes of the Basnasska and she says that they are many and most from this area act like that. Estrel talks about how she's been as far as the earthquake wrecked state of California but it seems to become a liturgy and Falk is lulled into unconsciousness. An indeterminate amount of time later he wakes and she tells him they are safe there even if anyone bothered to find them, he asks and she says the Wanderers are known for being tricky (she says they called her "'Fox Woman'" at the camp) and that includes her healing. She ventures to ask about his eyes and though he tells her that none of the Foresters have eyes like that the "code" again prevails, though he does ask if his eyes frighten her. What frightened her was how quick he shot the man, having seen a "'Raze'" do it when she was younger. He knows little about the Mountains but she explains that the Lords, because of their Law of non-killing (her example is punishment to a murderer) instead do something to the mind to make them child-like and abandon them, though they retain certain reflexes of their past life. Falk looks at his gun and wonders if his skill wasn't learned hunting with Metock, that perhaps he was even a criminal. He asks if they did it to others, "'rebels'" maybe, but interestingly she doesn't know the word. He asks about Es Toch and the Lords and she says much told about it is fable, she has been there, many people live there, and he should have no fear of the Lords. He sends into her mind asking for more about Es Toch but now the code comes up and she just shakes her head, she will not bespeak anyone ever. He somewhat embarrassingly asks if she thinks he is a Shing, but he knows she is right. She says mindspeech proves nothing, trust must grow, and as she goes to get water he hopes that their trust will. Later that night she goes to him saying she is cold, and though he had some resolution they spend the next three days in sleep and lovemaking. She is not like Parth (he has an image of her like a clear spring near the Clearing), and once in anger he even suggests she is only doing this because she fears what he'd do to her, like the tribe did. He asks, isn't it human warmth that they both want, and she whispers yes, and he resolves to give her space for awhile and to never touch her again. When the storm passes he asks about her capture, he learns limited things in her way except that a woman traveling alone anymore is foolish and that she was with a man who was killed by the Basnasska. But his way is changed and he has more acceptance and doesn't get angry, it's up to her freely to give confidence when she seeks to. He asks to help find her people and although she says it's unlikely they will be found in such a large place he wants them to look for news while she guides him. Because of his desire, pity, and loneliness he is glad when she accepts, and the new day seems bright.
Chapter 5
They had spent days crossing the Great Plain and their journey is described. Estrel knows that most of the land was just as it was with the Basnasska. But she has an uncanny ability to guide him even when she has no specific knowledge about an area, and when it gets really bad she briefly prays to her amulet at night and they choose the right way the next morning, citing "'Wanderer's instinct'". It was mostly days of emptiness, though once they had bumbled right in between guards of a settlement which thankfully proved to have generous hosts, the Bee-Keepers who wear yellow wintercloth with a brown cross on the chest. They say little to him and less to Estrel (who seems to have some "uninterested disdain" for them) and instead refer to her as "'your she'" to him, and their women used names of men and worked like them. The people are strange but so self-sure that they reminded Falk a bit of his home. Once he said something in favor of them and Estrel said they were a vestige of an ancient superstition, who bred slave woman like sows and worshiped something called the Dead God through a sacrificial murder, and this arrogance is so out of her usual character of passiveness that Falk teases her about her religion's amulet. He asked who their enemy is, and she says the Shing although it is a false war as they aren't a threat. She doesn't trust them, and when Falk says goodbye to one of the younger ones, Hiardan, he mentions they regret not being open with him because they don't trust Estrel. Falk asks if Hiardan has ever been alone, he says no and that they have a saying that tells them to only trust kinsmen, which Falk says he has none of, nor safety among anything. Very rarely do they see settlements or people after they part, though Estrel says people that live like this here are individualistic and do not like Wanderers, and it is likely they are being watched and would be killed during the night if they were to go to them. In discussing this and seeing his mood Estrel surmises perhaps this is why the Shing don't kill, because they have no such fear. Falk says if they kill him then at least he would have the satisfaction that they feared him, but Estrel stresses they do not kill. He jokes about cockroaches and she takes his joke seriously, she does not know. Falk says they don't revere human life (they aren't human after all) and Estrel combats that there has been no wars in any known world since they came. He challenges this, gets enraged even, that he honors life and its difficult intelligence, and in them taking it away and making him a child they killed who he was, and that their "reverence" is a mockery. He considers why he is drawn to her, close to her yet so many secrets: "[s]he kept nothing from him and yet her secrecy remained, untouched," and they make love that night. The land gets drier and Estrel guides them still, dodging another nomadic people called the Horsemen. Twice they had passed ancient ruins, and they discuss the long ago Age of Cities, the Age of War. They readjust north a bit and cross a big shallow river. Spring is blooming on the other side but eventually water will be a problem. Estrel had taken a chill crossing it and is suddenly stricken with dysentery, Falk tries to comfort her but in her feverish delirium mentions she had lost her amulet crossing the river. Estrel gets worse at night and needs water, Falk frantically searches and eventually spots what he thinks are trees. A few miles before they get near she drops and though he thinks it wise to go ahead she makes him promise not to, so he carries her. It's agony but eventually he inchworms his way where he sees a house, and again she forbids it in an odd way: "'Ramarren mustn't go to the houses,'" and she starts pleading a cry in a language he doesn't know. Shortly before the house he is swarmed by what seem to be beasts and men. He awakes and is given water and juniper liquor in a glass, something he hasn't seen since Zove's House. In a different dialect of Forest speech then his own a figure on a throne asks Falk what he is. Falk answers truthfully, that his self-knowledge was removed six years ago whereafter he was brought up again in the Forest House and is going to Es Toch to learn about himself. The person questions him going to "'the Place of the Lie to [find] out the truth" and asks what brought him here, curiously the man asks if Estrel specifically brought him here and that it's a good thing that she didn't. Falk doesn't know anything about this place, and is told it is the Kansas Enclave where this person is the sole Prince and God, where they follow a game called King of the Castle which are the only laws he follows, making up the rest. The Prince asks his real name and on learning Falk is searching for it he finds such a thing a virtuous quest for a man, and calls Falk a "Player of the Game" and assigns him the name Opalstone, giving him freedom to "'move'", and he addresses the beast as Griffon. Falk asks about Estrel but is told she has no name and is not a player in this game, and we also learn that Griffon is a dog, practically a legend compared to the wild ones on the plain, his breed extinct. Genially he asks Falk what he wishes for most, and Falk answers the truth, he wants to go home. The Prince of Kansas seems to consider this and moves away, and Falk realizes that the table is a network of wires and jewels, a Davenant patterning frame like the one Zove and Buckeye possessed but massive: "a fortune-teller, a computer, an implement of mystical discipline, a toy.", and he knows little about the thing besides that Buckeye had said it would take one forty or fifty years to become adapt at it. The thing is consulted and the Prince says the stone flies "among the stars" and asks if it will break time's frame. Falk says he cannot read it on the edge and the Prince tells him that reading it is Falk's game. He tells Falk that Falk is a "'prince of starlight'" and should have been dead a century ago, and that the Prince will ask for shelter from Falk a long time from now, and then tells him he is free to go and be served. He spents thirteen days there and finds the people consider it an honor to serve the Prince. When they discuss leaving Falk asks Estrel why the Shing don't destroy him, and she surmises it's because his kingdom is small and they view him as little more than a silly, babbling child playing at a game. Falk asks her if she views him like this and she brings up that they chased off an aircar with pans and firecrackers. Falk seems to find humor in it: "'The Basnasska have forgotten the old way of man,' he said; 'these people maybe remember it too well.'" but she is dead serious (warning even) when she says the aircar didn't go away because it was scared of firecrackers. He finds a sort of joy in the struggle, a kind of noble folly in the act, but since the loss of her amulet she has been especially joyless and since it was time he told her that he would speak of their leaving. The Prince is not on his throne (hasn't been since the first night) but is next to the patterning-frame reading a book, it is the Canon with a language printed on the opposite side Falk can't read, and the Prince tells him it is in the language his ancestor had written five or six thousand years ago. The Prince gives him it (knowing he'll likely lose it again: '"in following the Way the way is lost'") and asks Falk why he always speaks the truth. Falk is not sure but says to lie would be to use the enemy's weapon and to play their game, but the Prince says that they won that long ago. The Prince asks if Falk is off and that they'll keep Estrel a while longer, on being told that he promised that they'd find her people together The Prince questions what exactly Falk thinks she is, to which he says a Wanderer. The Prince views this as an untruth even as Falk always speaks the truth, and advises that he partake of The Prince's pleasant mirage on the journey while he questions if it's "'lust or loyalty'" that binds him to her. He says she has given him help, and hope, and there is trust, and the Prince tells him to mistrust her, woe be Falk on the journey with her to the Place of the Lie. The Prince offers him many thing instead, including a dog whose kind had become extinct because they were too trusting, but Falk refuses. "'Go as you please. The game here's done.' The Prince rose, went to the throne beneath the moon-circle, and seated himself. He never turned his head when Falk tried to say farewell."
Note: Example discussion questions in the comments! See the "Welcome" section which also contains information about the format.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Aug 30 '26
At the start of the book Falk emerges from a shadowy forest into a Clearing of light to a civilization, an expression of opposites. Do similar events happen elsewhere in the story, for example is one thing stated and then Falk goes to or experiences the opposite? What about the reverse?
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u/True_Rise8864 Too Many Books Too Little Reading Time Aug 30 '26
The alternating phases of dark and light seem to be a repeated theme. So far I can think of:
- Falk first coming out of the forest into the Clearing
- Falk leaving Zove's house and returning into the depths of the forest (though now he's at least following a rough path and can make fire)
- Falk being trapped in the pitch-black cellar of the House of Fear, then being initially blinded by the light when he gets released
- Falk being passed of as blind by Estrel, therefore once more experiencing a period in darkness
- Falk and Estrel hiding after their escape, once again in a dark cellar
In the first few instances the dark is connected with complete loneliness, but as soon as Estrel enters the story she becomes his guide and companion into and through the darkness. It is no wonder that he couldn't imagine leaving her behind with the prince...
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
Constant talk of opposites, when Parth and him part it says they don't separate. He's going to find out what his life is and she immediately considers him dead. When he first gets to the Inland River it literally says "first time in his memory, out of the forest." and "as if the prairies were one enormous Clearing." He enters the light there and is almost immediately (immediately at least in narrative terms) literally knocked into darkness. He also questions why nobody is out there/makes the journey and immediately gets captured by people.
I always wanted to point out the house of Fear, he runs from a forest to a civilization (perhaps even a House, only a very minor house by necessity. No honor among... killers?) which mirror's the beginning but things turn out quite the opposite (instead of compassion and understanding it's violence and fear. He has to flee the "civilization" to the forest). Edit: A phrase came to mind, the house was an anti-civilization civilization.
And of course I think it's the Prince that says he's looking for truth in a city of lies.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Aug 30 '26
Why do you think the killer lets Falk go in the house of Fear? Is there anything interesting about how or why Falk labels it as such?
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u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Sep 01 '26
I didn't think much about the name other than it being a place unwelcoming to strangers, but maybe it says more about the inhabitants than the unlucky travelers that pass through. They are so suspicious of strangers because they are constantly afraid.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
I ruminated it on a bit above in another comment, but I do find it interesting he's seemingly freed (with much reluctance) after he "sends" the Canon with his mind. They mention his strange mind but it seems to convince one of them partially at least. Falk also calls the Fear contagious, whether he wants to or not he takes that lesson (along with his pride in his bluffing which is more spelled out) and has to adapt, becoming extremely cautious of people. I think it's part of Falk's "bending", he sees the extreme of the "free" people driven to murder because of their refusal to see anything in the Law but something to take the opposite of or because they forbid it (as well as they're always under attack) but he still takes a lesson from it.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26
Oh, there's another thing I wanted to point out, how the cellar is very similar to the Old Place Estrel takes them when they escape.
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u/musicnerdfighter Bookclub Brain 🧠🐰 Sep 01 '26
I think they are afraid of Falk. They don't know if he's one of the Shing or sent by them and they know how brutal the Shing can be, so they don't want to anger them too much by killing him.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Aug 30 '26
What do you consider to be the "Man's work" that Zove brings in Chapter 1? How does Falk's view the failures or successes of the various subgroups he encounters (in any way that's expressive of the themes and plot)?
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u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Sep 01 '26
On the surface they all seem to just be trying to survive and avoid the Shing. But I think Zove is alluding to something bigger, something that they can't do because they are living in isolated family pods with little communication and cooperation with other groups of people. Perhaps the act of innovation? This would require clear channels of communication and being able to work together towards bigger things, and able to progress.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26
Strangely I'm finding some parallels to "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" which was published 5 years after this and connects directly (as in mentioned) to Rocannon's World than actually Rocannon's World. That work deals with the Hainish and how the Terrans kind of turn from them as their "parents", Fear (at least in this part) is a main component of the plot, it's character is an empath although one very different from All-Alonio. I'd say this is a spiritual/philosophical work compared to Vaster's one of psyche and more of an anthropological focus to Vaster's ecological maybe even imperialistic one, but I still find it interesting nonetheless!
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Aug 30 '26
The book is full of seeming contradictions or symbols of opposites, and there are a lot of references to Earth blurred through a futuristic lens. Much of this comes from Le Guin's Taoism or other philosophical elements, for example the Old Canon is the Tao Te Ching, the Thurro in Thurro-dowist is a reference to David Thoreau and in the New Canon All-Alonio (said to be named after a nursery rhyme) uses a direct quote from Walden and a notable quote from Benjamin Franklin. The areas of boundaries are often blurred names of states (and/or carry other symbols, particularly in their geographical notabilities. All-Alonio mentions you'd have to be a "catfish" to cross the thaws of the Inland River) and California is named outright. Commentators have noted that beyond this a lot of the groups carry representations of political or religious ideologies in similar ways to what we've read in The Dispossessed. Does it feels realistic or at least interesting, a good use of symbols or shorthand? Are there any that you are curious about or thought worked well?
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u/musicnerdfighter Bookclub Brain 🧠🐰 Sep 01 '26
I was a little surprised (in a good way) when early on the characters were calling the planet Earth, because I wasn't sure that's where the story would take place. The little quotes from the Canon, and reference to Walden Pond were what really confirmed it for me. I think it's really interesting to see so many ways people might change over the millennia, and how something simpler in a previous time can take on great meaning in the future when there's so much distance between the origin and the interpretation of an object, place, or saying/thought
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26
I also find it interesting just because this is really like a post-apocalyptic book right, this is after a pretty much growth or survival after a total defeat of mankind. We get tragedy in most of them yeah but this feels less like it's because of push of a society doing well into another thing (often another society).
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Aug 30 '26
Look back at All-Alonio's premonitions (check the linked in-depth summary for a quick way), have any come true? Have any done so in a surprising way? What about ones that haven't yet, which do you find interesting and why? Also, have we seen an ability like All-Alonio's before (please note the publishing order and not just the chronology)? What is interesting about what he says about the Shing's Law?
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u/musicnerdfighter Bookclub Brain 🧠🐰 Sep 01 '26
Well, he's met the Prince and the Wanderer (Estrel), and sort of mentioned Estrel by name (henstrella). I remember him saying Falk would need to go on his journey alone, so I'm surprised Estrel is still around at the end of chapter five, I thought she would have died when she got really sick.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26
This is a good place to put it, I wanted to bring up a couple things about the Shing's Law! Falk goes from a house where they seemingly react to the Law to almost childishly throwing a tantrum against it, by killing everything and anything with no abandon. It seems to be Falk's mind (or the work its trained on) that scares one of the men even more, to letting him escape. Directly from the house of Fear (after being cautious) Falk meets a man the book describes as "fearless and ... impossible to fear him". The man asks him about why he killed the bird: "Killed it and didn’t eat it? Shameful, shameful.' The old man cackled, then crowed like a wild cock. “Have you no rev erence for life? You must understand the Law. It says you mustn’t kill unless you must kill. And hardly even then. Re member that in Es Toch. Are you dry? Clothe your nakedness, Adam of the Yaweh Canon."
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
How does this book fit in with the other books in the (so-called) Hainish Cycle? Is there anything interesting about it's setting? What about alternatively, what is interesting about the situation when it takes place and the way in which the story unfolds?
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u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Sep 01 '26
I was quite surprised to find ourselves on Earth, when there is a wider network on inhabited planets. This takes place in the future, and yet the North American continent is a wilderness rather than crumbling ruins. Humanity has returned to its roots, existing in small tribes and living off the land and the work of their hands.
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u/forawish Aug 30 '26
It's set maybe after or concurrent to the events in Planet of Exile. The League of All Worlds is gone and perhaps the Shing are the League's enemies in Rocannon's World/ Planet of Exile too? What I find interesting is how the people in this book live largely like those in the two previous ones, isolated in crumbling castles and with most of their previous technological history gone.
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u/Don_Quixotel Sep 01 '26
I’m struggling with this one. I’ve read a dozen books between each of the Hainish books, so details are a bit fuzzy. The main thing I recognize is that the League is no more. Something apocalyptic happened.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
What do we know of Estrel and her code? What do others say about her? Is there any peculiarities with her or things that don't match up? Is she trustworthy? If not, why is she helping Falk? If she is, why do others have little but negative things to say about her, is it solely philosophical? How does she compare to Parth?
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u/TalliePiters 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Sep 02 '26
Estrella is very suspicious! Did anyone else notice her phrase about Ramarren? I'm sure her amulet was a communication device. She's likely got a certain agenda
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26
I hope people pay close attention not just to the plot but the symbols behind them. Funny enough both Estrel and Parth react negatively to Falk's mindspeech. He calls her the same pet names as Parth although he's delirious at the time. The opposites are easy to see, Parth doesn't seem particularly reserved. When he is recalling her Falk gets a symbol of a clear spring in the Clearing, meanwhile Estrel is dark and secretive as a closed box.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Aug 30 '26
Why do you think Falk has big eyes? Does it represent something? What do you think is Falk's past?
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u/True_Rise8864 Too Many Books Too Little Reading Time Aug 30 '26
His eyes are described as cat- or falcon-like (with Falke also meaning falcon in German btw) and it's mentioned, I think in the House of Fear, that he usually has pretty good darksight as long as there is any hint of light.
So it seems either his kind evolved to live in the dark or, if he is not a product of natural evolution but some kind of experiment, he might've been made to find his way in the dark... for what purpose though, I have no clue yet.
More metaphorically speaking, it might be a hint at him seeing more than others, e.g. by being willing to leave Zove's house, encountering many different groups of people and being quite open and perceptive in general.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26
All eyes and no mouth! I do wonder if the "grays" thing influenced his look too. Also, coming off Planet of Exile it's hard not to draw comparison there, with the focus on "hearing" and the Tevarans's gaze aversion.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Aug 30 '26
Commentators have noticed that compared to other works of Le Guin's City of Illusions could be considered to fall partly in the mystery genre. Is it a satisfying mystery? Do you find that the spiritual mystery of Falk works or do you feel it does not?
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u/Don_Quixotel Sep 01 '26
There’s definitely a lot of mystery and surprises to be revealed but it doesn’t feature the typical conventions of the mystery genre.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26
I'd agree, it feels more mythological, like Falk is something out of a legend. Which fits it in with the first book.
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u/musicnerdfighter Bookclub Brain 🧠🐰 Sep 01 '26
I'm enjoying the setup of this book. I think having the main character discover things about the world and himself along with the reader feels natural and makes it an engaging read without feeling like it's bogged down by exposition. So far the mystery is satisfying to me, I'm happy to go along on this journey with Falk
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
It's interesting that this is a pretty miserable setting but it still feels like a story of hope. It's also a mythological story in a world where we get glimpses about how myths have greatly effected multiple societies in the world, and we get to have extra knowledge about it than the characters living it. I don't think it's an accident, the story is about Truth and Lies. Edit: I think Zove is like "Hey, what if this is all lies what we've been saying?"
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26
Oh! One other thing I wanted to talk about that I just had loose notes about was the mind speaking. In other books the mind speaking (or other mental powers) comes about during the apex and perhaps even as a fulfillment of the story, even if it's not a happy one. Ironically, very often it is not a happy one (I think the original form of it, in Rocannon's World is to mimic Norse myth), though it is what enables the League to flourish. But it also leads to their overwhelming defeat.
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u/Manjusri Earl of Earthsea Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
Update: A day later than I wanted to but I put some new responses and meanderings in the replies! I'll of course keep an eye on it from here, particularly up to (but not exclusively! I don't care if it's months later) the posting of the second part by my collaborator.
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u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Sep 01 '26
All-Alonio threw me off and his slightly sing-song nature felt out of place to me (though I think this is intentional). He reminded me a lot of Tom Bombadil from The Lord of the Rings. His house is a place of refuge, but also very separated from the outside world, and All-Alonio chooses this life of solitude.