r/bookclub • u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ • Aug 01 '25
First Law [Discussion 1/6] The Heroes (First Law World #5) by Joe Abercrombie: Start through Chapter "The Right Thing"
Hello bibliophiles I cannot wait to dive back into the First Law World with you all for more drama, murder and intrigue in The Heroes
Incase you need them the schedule is here and the Marginalia is here
Hold steady.......3.....2.....1......ATTACK!!!!!
Summary
BEFORE THE BATTLE
The Times (Ch. 1)
Curnden Craw approaches 8 men huddled round a fire near The Heroes. Hardbread and co, under Dogman, are Union men now and Craw is fighting against them under Black Dow. Craw and his crew have Hardbread and his men surrounded. He allows the Union men to leave without incident (to Redcrowβs chagrin). Craw sends new lad, Drofd, to ride back to let the other units know they came across one of Dogman's dozens scouting at The Heroes. The rest of the crew take up place near the fire that Hardbread and co just vacated. Whirrun's runes predict there will be blood.
The Peacemaker (Ch. 2)
Calder and his pregnant wife Seff are interrupted by Caul Shivers. Calder used to be a Prince, but now Black Dow wears his father's chain (Bethod). Seff is being held hostage to keep Calder in line.
The Best of Us (Ch. 3)
The chapter starts with Bremer dan Gorst's favourable report to the King about the war against the Northmen.
The column is bogged down by the wet mud. Gorst helps to push the supply wagon out of the mire.
Lord Marshal Kroy, commander-in-chief of his Majestyβs armies is in the headquarters (a cottage) with General Mitterick, Colonel Felnigg and The Dogman when Gorst arrives covered in mud. Lord Bayaz, First of the Magi, shows up with gold and guidence. Mercato in Styria is cementing her power while the Union is busy fighting Northmen. Bayaz wants the war wrapped up quicker as it is becoming too expensive and drawn out. Bayaz can see the big picture, therefore, he does not care about the details, only that a decisive battle is forced out ASAP. They decide to force the battle near Osrung at The Heroes. Word is sent to the various companies. Gorst offers to take the new orders to General Jalenhorm and therefore make it to the front of the action. Kroy warns Gorst not to be a hero. He is somewhat obsessed with Finree, who has arrived to see her father. She tells him the news that she is now betrothed to Colonel Harod dan Brock. Brock was pardoned by the king after his father, Lord Brock, made a play for the crown. Brock has proved his loyalty. Gorst is distraught.
Black Dow (Ch. 4)
Calder is bought before Black Dow, Glama Golden, Cairm Ironhead and Brodd Tenways. Splitfoot, Dow's 2nd loiters behind him. They discuss war and how they are outnumbered by the Union. Dow recognises the split Union army is rejoining. He sends Shivers to The Heroes with word to hold it, and gives orders to get the rest of the companies in position. The giant Stranger-Come-Knocking arrives to make a blood oath and offer his men to fight. Stranger-Come-Knocking himself wants to fight the Union (good) Whirrun of Bligh (bad - he's Craw's man and on the same side) and the Bloody-Nine (assumed dead not that S-C-K believes that). Stranger-Come-Knocking tells Calder he is made for other things (hmmm prophetic?!). Calder's brother, Scale, is on his way back and in need of Calder's brilliant mind. Dow sends him off with a few good natured threats to the life of his wife and unborn child.
What War? (Ch. 5)
Craw admires the strength of position at The Heroes. It is quiet and beautiful, one could almost forget there was War. Craw thinks about how life might have been different if he had married Colwen. Wonderful's husband and kids are home on the farm. She goes back to visit when she can, or so she says. Drofd is returning with Shivers. Shivers is there to make sure Craw holds The Heroes.
Old Hands (Ch. 6)
Corporal Tunny is woken by Forest. He is in a hammock and has a monster hangover. There are replacement message runners that Tunny will be in charge of. Gorst arrives to see General Jalenhorm with news of the new plan.
New Hands (Ch. 7)
Beck is reluctantly chopping wood. He would rather be fighting. Festen comes with news that there are men in the village. Nothing can stop Beck from taking his father's sword and joining the fight. The volunteers are young, inexperienced and barely armed. They discuss Calder and Beck's anger escalates till Flood intervenes. Shama Heartless, Beck's father, had a reputation, and Beck is determined to make his own.
Reachey (Ch. 8)
Calder meets up with his father-in-law, Reachey, who knows that Black Dow is hoping to see the end of Calder. He advises his son-in-law to stay out of the fight. He won't help to kill Calder, but he won't protect him though either. After leaving Reachey two men tried to jump him. No one steps in to help him as he flees from them until he is being pressed by the men and thinking it's the end. Then Foss Deep and Shallow come to his rescue. They respected his father (and Calder's gold). They chuck the attackers in the river. The horseminder confessed Brodd Tenways was behind the order before going into the river too.
The Right Thing (Ch. 9)
Drofd wonders if Skarling Hoodless is buried under The Heroes rock Skarling finger, and they bicker until Wonderful interupts. She has spotted 22 men crossing the ford. It is Hardbread and they are outnumbered, but Craw decides to hold the hill. They prepare themselves to fight. Hardbread asks nicely for his hill back, but Craw refuses. Hardbread's men makes a shieldwall and begin advancing. Both sides fire arrows at each other as Hardbread's men climb the hill. Craw's crew use their advantages fighting savagely. Hardbread's men flee leaving 8 corpses behind. Athroc was killed by Redcrow's axe. Craw wonders if he did the right thing....
Join u/Endtimes_Nil next week for chapters Silence through The Defeated. See you there savages πͺπ
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
2 - "Heβd never laid claim to being a brave man and heβd only got more cowardly with age."
Ice breaker - Are you brave? Are you getting more cautious with age?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Aug 01 '25
It depends on perspective, and it wasn't from age really, it was with having kids. I'm more cautious/less brave with myself now that I have kids, but way more brave when it comes to helping my kids/family. Probably a pretty common shift for most.
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 06 '25
Interesting. I see this a lot with my husband actually. I think I was already becoming more comfortable not pushing boundries before we had kids, but that feeling became stronger after kids for sure
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
I'm not very brave in terms of risky things, but I do like trying new things, so I guess you'd say I'm cautiously adventurous?
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
3 - The Heroes are actually great rocks arranged on the hilltop. Did this change your expectation of the book? Do you think this location has a significance above being a strategically good spot to hold?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Aug 01 '25
I liked that this was revealed early on and it totally threw me off on expectations. Pretty quickly it was a blank slate to be filled in, I really like tha tit appears we are headed towards a crazy battle at The Heroes.
I'm anticipating something on the level of the battle at Helm's Deep in the LOTR trilogy.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
I thought this was really clever - we think there are going to be battle heroes and no, it is a bunch of rocks! Turns the narrative we thought we were getting on its head, which I've come to expect from Abercrombie.
I do think this is going to be significant somehow, and I hope we learn the history or lore of the location! I bet Bayaz knows.
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 06 '25
I am definitely feeling there's some power or relevance to the site. I am also wondering if a lot of bloodshed from the (presumably) imminent battle in the area will have an effect on the site somehow
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
4 - It seems that Gorst has suffered multiple instances of bad luck and/or disgrace. A dual with the king, and having to search for the king in Cardottiβs House of Leisure during the madness of 4 years ago are both mentioned. Later it is mentioned that Gorst still has the Kkng's ear. How does Gorst fit into the story so far? Will he be able to fight his way back in to the kings good graces or is he still there? What type of person is he? How will learning of Finree's engagement affect him moving foreward? Any other observations about this character?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Aug 01 '25
It seems as though he is serving the king out of shame almost. I think he will get his confidence back and go a bit more independent, or at least have some great accomplishments that overshadow his previous incidents that he is currently known for.
I'm expecting great things from him, and they might even be Bayaz-assisted.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
I like the prediction that he'll do something great with Bayaz behind him. People certainly don't expect him to be a hero and we've seen Bayaz likes to pick unexpected leaders.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
I think he is looking for redemption, which will be a powerful motivation! He's also in love with a married woman and that may be a liability. Gorst is definitely someone to watch.
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
5 - "Some gentlemen from the University of Adua accompanied me. They have an invention that I am curious to see tested." - Bayaz
What might this be?
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
That made me nervous! I have absolutely no clue what to expect.
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 06 '25 edited Aug 06 '25
I wonder if it relates back to the trilogy. Alternatively something that goes bang!
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
6 - Stranger-Come-Knocking has heard the Bloody-Nine is fighting in the Union. What do you think? Will we see him? Is he alive?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Aug 01 '25
I believe he is totally alive, he has a good relationship with Jezal, so fighting with him, especially against Black Dow, makes all the sense in the world.
He's always got to have a big threat to match up against, and SCK looks to fit the bill.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
I think he is definitely alive. It's apparently been 8 years so I think he and Ferro were on a nice tropical vacation for recuperation purposes, and now he's back in fighting shape. If we don't see him, then that was a mean teaser!
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 06 '25
I really hope we see both characters tbh!!
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
7 - Stranger-Come-Knocking tells Calder he is made for other things in a way that is almost prophetic. What do you think about this?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Aug 01 '25
Yeah, that stuck out to me as well, I'm not too sure what it could be, but I had a feeling that there might be another witch behind the scenes ad SCK is working with her.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
Agreed, Stranger seems like he knows some things and a witch would make a lot of sense.
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 06 '25
Oh! Yes that could be it. He said it with such conviction that, whatever it is, he knows something we don't
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
9 - How has Shivers changed since Best Served Cold? How is he the same? Were you surprised to see him in The Heroes?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Aug 01 '25
I was a bit surprised to see him right in the middle of it all and seeming to relish it. I thought he would take a step back and get some peace, but instead he's embraced becoming more and more like the Bloody Nine
He's a lot more of a cold-killer in this book.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
He's a lot more of a cold-killer in this book.
Yes this was a surprise to see him and have him so changed. Remember when he was an aspirational guy looking for a chance to be a better man in simpler times?
It felt odd to have him in the background and not be the main character!
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 06 '25
I can't help thinking he was a strange choice. With so many strong characters from the trilogy to [Best Served Cold] have him become the MC, and to choose to follow him again really surprises me. In the end he was great in BSC, but I can't help wondering why Shivers...
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
10 - What do you think of Reachey and Calder's relationship? Reachey won't protect Calder if it means raising his sword to do so. Do you see him supporting Calder or working against him?
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
I took this as Reachey genuinely wanting him to survive but also not willing to risk himself for a guy that could be a big liability. He can probably take care of his daughter if Calder dies. As long as Calder behaves, Reachey has his back. If Calder goes off script, all bets are off - Reachey has to look out for #1.
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 06 '25
Yes! Hard agree. I am curious if we'l see anymore of their relationship. I suspect oossibly not
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
11 - "War and madness have a lot in common" - Scorry Do you agree?
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
It certainly seemed that way when the group was fighting at the Heroes! I have never fought Ina battle but I assume you would have to sort of step outside yourself and disassociate. There's a lot of screaming and adrenaline making you do crazy stuff. I can see the connection!
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
12 - How is Craw as a leader? At the end of Part One he wonders if he did the right thing or maybe there is no such thing as the right thing. When it comes to the First Law world what do you think?
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
In the First Law world it seems like there might be no right thing. Everyone is morally grey in some way. I think Craw wants to make the best possible choices and follow the rules and be loyal. But his question shows that everything is a matter of perspective. Whose rules, whose side deserves loyalty, etc.?
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 06 '25
Yes! I live a good morally grey character and Abercrombie does them so well. I am already a big fan of Craw because he actually questions himself
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
13 - We have met many characters, old and new in these chapters. Who is your favourite? Who do you want to learn more about? Are there any you don't care for?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Aug 01 '25
SCK is a bit of a mystery and will be interesting, and I think Beck is going to have a bunch of new experiences that change his character a lot.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
I like Gorst's scenes because they provide some comic relief. Wonderful is interesting to me. I like how she said "my husband's farm - my farm" and it seems like her husband is a stay-at-home dad which for this world made me chuckle. I want to know more about Stranger-Come-Knocking, for sure!
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
14 - Anything else I have missed? Questions? Comments? Quotes? Or other points of interest?
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Aug 01 '25
I'm listening to the audiobook, and with having Craw, and now the book using Shivers' first name Caul sometimes, the two names sound pretty similar so I found myself having to really think about who was being referred to at times.
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u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | ππ§ Aug 02 '25
I love the audiobooks but I learned early on that there are just too many names and places for me to follow without the book to refer to. So now I tandem read and listen which has helped a lot. At the beginning of the First Law trilogy I was constantly confused with audio-only.
ETA - to add to the "caul" confusion, some of the military people are "Carl's" but the narrator pronounces it very similar to "caul" to my hearing...
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u/Individual-Tap95 Aug 01 '25
Can you add (Ch.) chapter brackets to the schedule? Like Silence (Ch. 9) through The Defeated (Ch. ?)
It would be helpful to know how many chapters are between discussions
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
Sorry i am not going to have time to do this for the rest of the book for the foreseeable, but I can add these numbers. If you let me know what the chapter number that corresponds to the titles are I can add them sometime before the next discussion. The book was split fairly evenly by page count though on an average of 95 (+/-) pages a week if that helps.
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u/Individual-Tap95 Aug 02 '25
Yes that helps thank you. I just wanted an idea of how much I need to read each week
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
8 - In What War? Agrick tells Craw the Bloody-Nine killed Bethod then Black Dow turned on the Bloody-Nine and took the chain for his self. Dogman called Dow traitor and that's how they ended up on opposite sides of the war. How do you recall these events? If different why might this be? If you can't remember perhaps someone elses answer will jog your memory of the details
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u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Aug 01 '25
That's pretty much how I remembered it. The Bloody-Nine jumped out a window to escape, so we never had confirmation of any death and he has a history of escaping by jumping off things already.
I don't think we got to see how the Dogman part played out earlier, but this aligns with what I might expect. All those guys weren't super-strong allies, most of them had been brought together by being defeated by the Bloody Nine, so I can see how they'd split apart easily once B9 was out of the picture, especially in a controversial way.
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u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | π«ππ₯||π§ π₯ Aug 01 '25
1 - Welcome back how is everyone finding book #5? How does it compare to the others so far? Any new readers with us?