r/bookclub • u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles • Apr 27 '26
The Odyssey [Discussion 6 of 8] (Bonus Book) - The Odyssey by Homer – Books XVIII – XX
Finally someone recognizes Odysseus. The end is near!
Book XVIII
Odysseus, still disguised as a beggar, is confronted by another beggar named Irus, who sees him as competition. The suitors encourage the two men to fight for entertainment. Odysseus easily defeats Irus, showing that beneath the disguise he still has strength and control. Afterward, Penelope appears before the suitors and, with Athena’s help, seems especially impressive and beautiful. She speaks skillfully, scolding the suitors while also drawing gifts from them. The book shows both Odysseus’s restraint and Penelope’s intelligence. It also deepens the ugliness of the suitors, who treat serious matters like sport.
Book XIX
Odysseus and Telemachus begin preparing for the coming attack by removing weapons from the hall. Later, Penelope speaks at length with Odysseus, still not knowing who he is. He tells her a false story about himself but describes Odysseus so convincingly that she is moved to tears. Then comes one of the most famous recognition scenes in the poem: the old nurse Eurycleia, while washing Odysseus’s feet, recognizes him by the scar on his leg. Odysseus quickly makes her swear to keep silent. Penelope also tells the beggar about her plan for the bow contest, which will help determine her future. This book is full of concealment, recognition, and emotional tension.
Book XX
The pressure builds. Odysseus spends a restless night thinking about the suitors and the revenge ahead. Penelope also lies awake in distress. Signs and omens begin to suggest that justice is near. Odysseus receives encouragement from Zeus, and the household continues to divide itself between the loyal and the disloyal. At the palace, the suitors grow even more reckless and cruel, joking in ways that make their doom feel close. The prophet Theoclymenus sees a terrible vision of blood and darkness surrounding them, but the suitors laugh him off. By the end of the book, the mood is tense and ominous: disaster is coming, and only some people get it.
Summaries can be found at Cliffnotes, and Sparknotes.
4
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- Is there an argument for why Odysseus continues to leave Penelope in the dark?
7
u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Apr 28 '26
Probably to test her or something. Her crying every night in his vicinity may not be enough for him to believe she really has remained faithful to him.
3
u/missanthrp Apr 28 '26
I like this idea. He's testing Penelope the same way he's trying to determine the loyalty of the maids.
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 30 '26
Was that dripping in sarcasm? LOL
4
u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Apr 30 '26
Absolutely! I feel like with a lot of these old stories, not just Greek, there has to be some big proving that a wife has remained faithful, like they can't trust just her emotions and what she says.
1
2
u/KatiesGoldenDust My Mate Apr 29 '26
It's pretty messed up if that's the case, though. He's been gone for 20 years. She would've been more than justified to move on in that time. And yet she didn't. And it's clearly obvious she didn't, given what's going on at home. But she needs to be tested further?? I would be absolutely pissed if I were Penelope and he did that to me
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 30 '26
I would as well. I would probably choose to move on and pray to Athena for the strength and a new suitor to manifest that surpasses the fools downstairs. Its all quite toxic from this view...
2
5
u/missanthrp Apr 28 '26
I mentioned this a bit in the Eurycleia question, but I think it's building more dramatic tension. The same way we see a surrogate father/son reunion between Eumaeus and Telemachus before we get the big pay off of Odysseus' reunion with his son, we get a tease of the real reunion we're waiting for with Eurycleia/Odysseus. The longer we have to wait for Penelope to be in the know, the greater the tension.
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 30 '26
Very true. And hopefully this will be realized by the script writers for the upcoming movie. I want that!
1
u/llmartian Attempting 2025 Bingo Blackout Jun 24 '26
I agree that it could be as a way to test her, but its also possible he wants the element of surprise and doesnt trust that she wont give him away. By the same logic, he doesnt tell the servant/slave in charge of the pigs whose name i cant remember
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- Is there not a code amongst beggars? Is Irus full on out of line or defending his corner?
5
u/missanthrp Apr 28 '26
I liked that Odysseus responded by basically saying, "dude there's room enough for both of us to beg, and also what are you even defending? None of this belongs to you either!" As the in-the-know audience we have the irony that it all actually does belong to Odysseus to begin with.
1
u/KatiesGoldenDust My Mate Apr 29 '26
Why would there be a code amongst beggars? They're literally begging. They're desperate because they have nothing, so they'll take whatever they can get wherever they can get it
4
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- Are the gods here to help or play games for their own entertainment?
6
4
u/Ser_Erdrick Professor of the Author Profile Apr 27 '26
Athena seems to genuinely want to help. The others either DGAF or are actively malicious (see Poseidon) and are merely watching this like it's some soap opera.
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
You are under Athena’s spell (Said like a hypnotist hypnotizing someone.) Yes Athen has advocated to the other gods on O’s behalf. You are right she does care.
5
u/Lachesis_Decima77 Tea Connoisseur ⭐️🧠🥉 Apr 29 '26
I'd like to think the gods had their entertainment fix during the Trojan War. Now Athena is trying to help out her favourite mortal while appeasing Uncle Poseidon.
3
u/missanthrp Apr 28 '26
Definitely more the Athena show than anything, with little cameos from Zeus and Poseidon.
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- Could you endure the incessant insults that Odysseus receives?
8
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
No. I'd flip a table.
2
3
u/Ser_Erdrick Professor of the Author Profile Apr 27 '26
Probably not. However, it is wiser to endure them for now as the suitors outnumber Odysseus at this point.
6
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
Valid point. And his son has baby fists that can’t be used for fighting 😂 Kidding kidding. I always think of Odysseus as larger than life. With that would come with an estate. Which in turn means jobs for the local economy. I’ve always been stuck wondering why he couldn’t gather a mob of allies to help take his house back.
6
u/Ser_Erdrick Professor of the Author Profile Apr 27 '26
I think the reason as to why Odysseus can't raise a mob of allies is that the best fighters were drafted to go off to war to Troy and those left were the dregs and those too young and old.
These suitors, who likely don't remember Odysseus at all or barely remember, are likely the best that young men Ithaca has to offer and they're all allied to each other in trying to woo Penelope.
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
Oh that’s right! I am so tunnel visioned sometimes. It actually became a tragic story as soon as you pointed out that these suitors are the best young men they have. Which after next week I imagine Ithaca is going to have a population crisis…
2
2
u/KatiesGoldenDust My Mate Apr 29 '26
In a vacuum? No. But given the context, yeah it's extremely necessary. Eyes on the prize! I'd be able to endure because I know what's coming
1
u/IraelMrad Marius Hater #1 | 🐉|🥇|🧠💯 May 03 '26
I'm afraid I have never learned how to shut up, so I would bite back literally at the first one. Never been subtle at all.
1
3
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- Does Odysseus truly embody the saying, “patience is a virtue” or are we frustrated by him by now in the story?
5
u/missanthrp Apr 28 '26
Ever the tactician, he knows he has to wait for the right moment. Considering he has made some other questionable choices (that whole Polyphemus thing, not keeping his crew in check multiple times) it's kind of nice to see him exercising some caution, but at the same time the suitors are increasingly annoying. I'm ready for the bloodbath.
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- Penelope’s address to the suitors results in them bringing her gifts. How did that sit with you?
3
u/jaymae21 Yearbook Editor-in-Chief Apr 28 '26
I mean she has a point. If they want to woo her, they need to do some proper wooing, instead of just eating them into poverty.
2
u/KatiesGoldenDust My Mate Apr 29 '26
Good for her! I love that she did what she could to screw the suitors over
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- It’s about to go down. How do you feel after reading Theoclymenus’s (who is not just a murderer on the run but a prophet) vision?
6
u/YewBetcha 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Apr 27 '26
I like the vision as sort of one final warning for the suitors that they ignore. If they believed in the power of the gods, in the "rules" of the world, they would heed this warning, realize they're on borrowed time, and leave...
But they're not shown to be exceptionally perceptive now, are they?
4
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- When Eurycleia recognizes Odysseus what was your reaction?
9
u/YewBetcha 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 29 '26
Yeah it's exciting having his identity start to be known, but I think my favorite early recognition is still from his dog Argos in last week's section.
6
3
u/Lachesis_Decima77 Tea Connoisseur ⭐️🧠🥉 Apr 29 '26
Same! The goodest boy had the goodest reunion with his master.
6
Apr 28 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
3
2
u/llmartian Attempting 2025 Bingo Blackout Jun 24 '26
Yeah I was shocked by that too. Like dude, calm down, this is the lady that raised you. We can use our big boy words first, before threatening strangulation
6
4
u/missanthrp Apr 28 '26
Definitely adds some excitement as more people are in the know. It's also building more tension now that Eurycleia knows, but Penelope still doesn't. This is the next big reunion pay off.
1
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- What is your opinion of Penelope? Has it changed over the course of the book?
8
u/Lachesis_Decima77 Tea Connoisseur ⭐️🧠🥉 Apr 29 '26
I still like Penelope. She's shrewd and doing everything she can to keep the suitors at bay for as long as she can. A lot more faithful than her husband.
6
1
u/KatiesGoldenDust My Mate Apr 29 '26
I feel sorry for her. Yes from Odysseus' perspective she's an amazingly loyal wife. But she's spent 20 years alone waiting for her husband. How lonely! It would suck to be expected to wait for two entire decades
1
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
- What would you like to talk about?
2
Apr 28 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/Lachesis_Decima77 Tea Connoisseur ⭐️🧠🥉 Apr 29 '26
I think Eurycleia identified Odysseus by the feel of the scar. His appearance is still altered by Athena, which is why Penelope doesn't recognize him.
2
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 30 '26
I realize the plot doesn't thicken without this moment. But in seems like a real oversight on Athena's part.
2
u/IraelMrad Marius Hater #1 | 🐉|🥇|🧠💯 May 03 '26
I found the speech Odysseus makes at the beginning of this week's section, the one about how you do not really appreciate what you have before the gods take it from you, so moving. No matter what happens, he has lost so much that he will never get back.
9
u/Blackberry_Weary Mission Skittles Apr 27 '26
THIS IS DISCUSSION 7 of 8