r/bookclub • World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 • Oct 24 '25

The Luminaries [Discussion 6/9] Big Fall Read | The Luminaries by Eleanor Catton | CARDINAL EARTH through SUN IN PISCES

Welcome to the sixth discussion of The Luminaries. Today we are discussing CARDINAL EARTH through SUN IN PISCES.

Here are some links you might need:

Schedule

Marginalia

A summary (as best I can) is below and questions will be in the comments.

CARDINAL EARTH

Moody regrets that he wasn't more forgiving with his father and brother, and now he doesn't know where his brother is. He returns to the Crown Hotel to open his trunk, but discovers that it's not his. It has Lauderback's name inside - they had obviously got mixed up, and his trunk was probably at Lauderback's rooms. He decides to go through it and has no qualms about it. He finds the deed of sale of the Godspeed, signed by a Mr. Francis Wells nine months prior, as stated by Lauderback to Balfour. On close examination', the "F" of the signature looks like a "C", and a dot of ink suggests it was signed ambiguously, to be read as either Francis Wells or C. Francis Wells. Moody thinks Francis Carver must have stolen the birth certificate that he was in possession of last June so he could pose as Crosbie Wells. With the ambiguous signature on the deed of sale, he would be able to deny he signed it. He wonders if "Francis" had been added to the birth certificate. Carver had used Crosbie Wells's identity with Lowenthal, but Francis Wells’s with Lauderback prior - he must have been pretending to be Crosbie Wells's brother with Lauderback.

In a secret compartment he finds some letters to Lauderback, signed from his brother, Crosbie Wells, in Dunedin. Crosbie Wells introduces himself to Lauderback as his brother, a bastard sired by their father, to a whore, taking on the surname of his parish priest; the father had sent him £20 advising he would not be named in his will. Although the letter wasn't signed, he tracked the origin to their father's house, but didn't ring the bell. When he saw the name Alistair Lauderback in the Shipping News departing for the colonies, he assumed it was his father, and followed him to Dunedin, only to find it was his brother, having the same name. He requested the return fare. He writes again, he's desperate to go home and see his father who is dying. The letters become more desperate - he says his mother Sue Butcher, was a beauty, and their father's favourite. Eventually he resolves to stay in New Zealand, he likes the equality among men there. He starts to wonder if Lauderback looks for him.

After a decade, in the next letter, he states that he is married and Mrs Wells is a fine woman, and asks Lauderback his opinions on the gold rush. Later he writes to congratulate Lauderback on his marriage to Caroline Gough. The letters take on a diary form, not expecting them to be read or replied to, asking him about his resignation from the superintendency. Eventually he writes that he has struck gold and is now wealthy, believing he is now the richer of the two. He has not yet declared the ore and will export it privately. Next he writes that he and his wife are no longer together and he has moved house. He has made friends with a Maori man, Terou Tow-Faray. Hearing that Lauderback is running for Parliament, he will vote for him as he has a cottage in the Arahura Valley. He instructs Lauderback to reply with an "X" if he wants him to cease writing.

A MONTH WITHOUT A MOON

Mannering arrives at the Wayfarer's Fortune and shares a bit of banter with Lydia Wells. He says that she and Anna will be invisible to the spirits because they're wearing black. He challenges her on her ability to tell fortunes. Ah Sook and Ah Quee are by the fireside. Mannering wants to speak with Anna, but Lydia Wells is keeping her upstairs until the séance. He asks Ah Sook why he's there - he’s got questions for Emery Staines. Pritchard warns Frost to keep both eyes open; he should watch Lydia Wells while Nilssen watches Anna. Nilssen tells Balfour that Lauderback knows about his commission and is publishing a letter in the paper about it, with Shepard's response to be published underneath. Balfour denies telling Lauderback about Nilssen's commission, and wonders how Shepard knew about Lauderback and Lydia Wells. Nilssen suddenly confesses that he was the one who broke his oath. When the town finds out that Lauderback took Lydia Wells as his mistress, he could lose his seat in Parliament.

Tauwhare asks Clinch why he bought Crosbie Wells's cottage and he says it was Charlie Frost's idea. If you own the land, and you find some gold, it's yours. Lowenthal asks Tauwhare if he had found anything at the wreck - he didn't. Clinch speaks to Lowenthal about Anna’s baby. Lowenthal wants to know when Clinch heard this news and if he had suspected Carver. Lowenthal suspects that Anna might not have been telling the truth. Clinch said it was a man from Dunedin, Anna had come over on the Godspeed, but didn't know if she had known Carver. She named him after the child was dead. Gascoigne introduces Moody to Lydia Wells. She asks Moody if he has an interest in the occult, and he answers without giving offence. She challenges him on his use of the word "know" and he says it's seeing something from all sides. She says you can't see a spirit from all sides and he admits he doesn't believe in them. She asks why he had booked a ticket to the séance; he says out of curiosity. They have a philosophical argument and she asks how well he knows Gascoigne. Gascoigne reveals that Moody was Mr Carver's passenger on Godspeed, which alarms Moody as he was using a different name on the ship. He wonders if Lydia Wells knew about the phantom in the hold.

VENUS IN AQUARIUS

The room is prepared for the séance, with the seven guests seated in a circle. Ah Quee and Ah Sook, faces painted in make-up, sit either side of the hearth. Lydia Wells explains that Anna Wetherell has been preparing herself for communion with the dead and mustn't be disturbed. They promise to focus and to ignore Anna when she arrives. Lydia Wells explains how the séance works and what might happen. Sometimes the dead cannot talk, and will instead leave a “token”. She tells them about one such séance where a watch stopped and a painting fell off the wall, leading the participants to uncover the truth about a woman's death. Lydia Wells insists she's the real deal. Anna Wetherell enters, wearing the mourning dress, and sits facing Lydia Wells. Frost glances at Anna and fails to see Lydia doing something suspicious.

Later Frost would describe what ensued as Lydia having a “fit”, her head rolling around and muttering the name “Staines”. She stops, looks past Frost to Ah Sook and makes unintelligible sounds. She throws herself on the floor, the paraffin lamp falls over and the table catches fire. Later they ask Ah Quee if Lydia was speaking Chinese; he doesn't answer but Ah Sook says that she can speak Cantonese - she was saying: “One day I come back and kill you. You kill a man. He die. I come back and kill you, one day.”. Ah Sook says that this is Francis Carver, but the others say that Francis Carver is at the Palace and isn't dead, so therefore it's not a séance. Ah Sook says that in fact when you talk to Carver, it's you who's dead. One digger thinks that this is all a shame and Ah Sook is in on it. They remember however that Carver was born in Hong Kong. Ah Sook is surprised to hear that Carver is back. They revive the seemingly unconscious Lydia with a splash of water, and she is unable to recall what happened. She denies being able to speak Chinese and asks what happened to the lamp. Ah Sook quietly leaves to be on his own and reflect upon the return of Carver. He knew that Lydia had looped a thread around the lamp to make it fall, and the table had been prepared with paraffin oil. He recognised her words as his own, remembered after so many years. He resolves to move out of his cottage, head for the hills to look for gold, and save up enough to buy a gun to kill Carver.

Part 3

MERCURY IN AQUARIUS

Moody sees an engagement notice in the paper, a couple of names he knows, with the forwarding address of the Palace Hotel. He is aware that although Carver has a room there, he actually sleeps in a small room off the kitchen at the Crown Hotel. While walking to his claim, which is at a distance from the town, Moody sees An Sook emerge from a tent. They chat, and when Ah Sook asks about Staines and Carver, Moody tells him that Carver sleeps in a humble little room at the Crown with a good view of the road. He's on the watch for Ah Sook, but Moody wants to know why. Ah Quee knew the story but couldn't communicate it in English. Ah Sook tells Moody that Carver murdered his father, and he plans to kill him at the Crown in revenge. Moody warns that he'll hang for that. Ah Sook shows him the gold he's saved to purchase the gun, and although he had a particular shop in mind, Moody recommends a different place of purchase for a weapon that will do the job better. Ah Sook gifts Moody the tea caddy used for storing his gold.

SUN IN PISCES

Lydia Wells admits that the séance failed, and concludes that Staines is not dead. This has the effect of making her seem more reliable, and her fortune-telling business goes up. She takes daily walks with Anna Wetherell, and today's walk was earlier than usual because she was due in court with regards to the will. Cowell Devlin takes the opportunity to catch Anna alone later at the Wayfarers Inn and requests to speak to her about an item of business. She looks malnourished, but he noticed two of everything in the kitchen. He congratulates her on giving up opium, which she says she no longer needs. He remarks that Carver will probably move in soon, as he had seen the announcement of his engagement to Lydia Wells in the paper.

He hands her the deed of gift from Staines to her, witnessed by Crosbie Wells, which she says she wasn't aware of. He is surprised that she can read it, and explains that it's unsigned, and hence invalid. Devlin suggests that it makes her look bad, and she should confide in him, but she says it has nothing to do with Wells's money; it's about Emery’s. The gold in the hut had originated from the Aurora mine, therefore it effectively belonged to Staines.

The kettle boils, Devlin goes to make the tea, and Anna quickly and confidently signs Emery Staines’s signature. Although she had never seen it, she was sure it was right. Devlin accuses her of fraud, but she claims ignorance and tucks the document in her dress, telling him he can't prove it. He asks her if she knew the gowns she purchased belonged to Lydia Wells. These were the five gowns Wells used to blackmail Lauderback, with Carver's help, each containing hidden gold, the orange one currently with Gascoigne, and the others at the Gridiron Hotel. She is shocked that he knows this, but says that she had discovered the gold in the orange dress with Gascoigne. She checked the other four, hoping to find gold to pay off her debt, but found weights instead.

Devlin asks Anna where Staines is, and she says that all she knows is that he's alive, because he is sending her “messages” that she feels in her head. At this moment, Lydia Wells enters.

9 Upvotes

162 comments sorted by

9

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q2 Has anyone attempted to draw a mindmap of the plot? If you did, what did you take for your headache?

6

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

Haha! This is one book where I really wish I’d made notes as I read, I didn’t and I am far too intimidated by it to contemplate going back and rereading it to make those notes now, it’s a brilliantly intriguing book and the author shows amazing skill is keeping all of the differently threads together without the whole thing unraveling. I am definitely going to be reading Birnam Wood after this

5

u/EveningAshamed9920 Oct 25 '25

Ooh yes! The author’s crafting of the plot and writing style has really captivated me and I’m excited to explore her other works after this one!

5

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

No, but I definitely thought about it.

Actually I went too fast at some point and realised I was lost at page 300 or so, went back about a hundred pages, and I think that was a good call. Now I wrapped my head, maybe not around the whole plot, but at least around the characters.

2

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

I need to make sure I have a bright sticky tab marking Moody's recap from a couple sections ago. I was feeling confident after I read that part, but now I'm getting lost again. I'm hoping we get a similar recap soon for everything that's happened since then!

6

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Absolutely not, but if anyone else has, that's amazing

4

u/Amanda39 Ask Me About My Cat Oct 25 '25

I tried last week. It didn't end well. I may have shed some tears. Said some words that shocked my cat.

5

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 25 '25

Was one of them "Zounds!"?

7

u/Amanda39 Ask Me About My Cat Oct 25 '25

No, that one was only mentally ejaculated

2

u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 06 '25

I have been taking notes in my Nancy Drew notebook. Unfortunately I can’t read any of them because I was sloppily writing them while reading. It has helped me retain things to write down key points. Well that and binging the book so far in one week. I had to keep referring back to the character chart with zodiac info in the marginalia (of which I also wrote a copy in my murder book) but I have got them down now.

1

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Nov 07 '25

You're nailing it! It would have been so much better to read this at a quicker pace.

7

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q5 There are a few weird things about Anna Wetherell: the gunshot with no bullet, the weight loss despite eating, the way she “feels” Staines send messages in her head. How do you explain these irregularities?

8

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I answered earlier, but I lean towards a paranormal explanation. Two minds in one body, sort of ? And now she's eating for two (and thus, losing weight) ?

And the two minds share memories, and since Staines isn't an opium addict, Anna can quit cold turkey and not suffer too much ?

5

u/Amanda39 Ask Me About My Cat Oct 25 '25

I really hope it isn't something paranormal. If a book is going to have paranormal elements, the author needs to make that clear (or at least indicate that it may be possible) early on. Otherwise, it feels like cheating.

2

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

Have you read Alias Grace by Margaret Atwood? It's set around the same time as this book and also explores spiritualism, including seances and questions around whether a character is channeling spirits and/or possessed.

4

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Ooooh interesting theories! I like the paranormal idea, there is something about her that I find slightly creepy.

4

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

Really interesting point regarding the opium

5

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I'm actually curious if this was like some form of trauma response or dissociation. Maybe even early signs of schizophrenia, or other mental or behavioral disorders? This wouldn’t have been recognized back then, or at least I don;t believe so

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Good thought.

3

u/EveningAshamed9920 Oct 25 '25

yes, the author does seem to be hinting at a paranormal explanation, and that does also seem possible given all the astrology tied to this book, but I’m hoping this is just a misdirection and the real explanation is something much more rational!

6

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

There is definitely something going on here but I have no explanation that I can think of, I’ll be interested to see other people’s theories here. What do you think u/nicecupoftea?

6

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

I wonder if the author is suggesting something supernatural, given her interest in all things astrology.

4

u/Starfall15 Oct 26 '25

 Until the last chapter the book seemed rooted in realism but with Anna’s behavior and her weight issues it seems paranormal is being introduced. I’m not sure if I like this change but will see how the author will deal with it

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 26 '25

I hope it isn't, it's not needed.

3

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

The story is complicated enough without introducing a paranormal element!

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 28 '25

Oh I know! Just when it's coming together, we don't need weirdness, but I'm really scared it'll go that way!

4

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

I think she's been cultivating her image for the seance and possibly for the fraud that is to follow to garner sympathy. That or she has an internal parasite, and I don't mean Staines! I don't know what to think of the Devlin confrontation with the signature...

Edit: Maybe Lydia has been poisoning her???

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 27 '25

Oooohhh maybe!

2

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

I did get the feeling that Lydia was responsible for the weight loss somehow. I thought maybe she was starving Anna, which could still be the case, despite the dishes Devlin saw. Poison seems like a possibility too, but why??

2

u/Clean_Environment670 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Oct 29 '25

My first thought with the weight loss was a cancer or that Lydia was poisoning her!

2

u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 07 '25

It could be poison! Which could explain her lack of opium cravings and ability to quit. Maybe it’s the first use of methadone? And maybe the poison has her hearing voices. And it makes her mind clear to read?

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25

I don't think the gunshot with no bullet was Anna's fault or doing. I don't have an explanation yet, but I think it's along the lines of someone else planning something with that gun and somehow it fell into her hands, or someone is messing with her.

If she's losing weight despite eating, that also sounds like someone is messing with her, or she has a parasite? I don't suppose wearing heavy dresses full of gold or lead would be helpful in putting on weight either.

Feeling Emery Staines in her head... She did say he was the only man she could trust. I think she's under a lot of stress after losing her baby in such a violent way, her mind could be taking this seance stuff to heart.

I've been thinking Anna is helping Lydia put on a show, but it's also possible Anna buys into it and Lydia is using her.

There have also been moments when I distrust Anna, such as when Carver categorically denied being the father of Anna's baby, but I still lean towards her being used by other people. Maybe she named Carver for some other reason.

She was quick to forge Staines' signature on that document, but I view that as self preservation and forgive the technical lie.

1

u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 07 '25

I had made up a theory at one point that she has an identical twin who is pretending to be her. Seems on brand for this type of book. But I doubt it now based on how she is justifying everything.

7

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q1 How did you find this section of the book?

7

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

Love it, I really feel that the pace is picking up a bit now and I’m really eager to find out how all of the different parts fit together. I still have so many questions and I really feel that I’m really close to some answers.

I also really liked getting to know more about Crosbie, I’ve felt that his character as the victim was very limited which was a shame when you compared that to all of the other characters but the letters he sent to his brother really fleshed out his character and revealed a lot.

5

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Yes, the letters really answered some questions. I think this section filled in a lot of gaps.

4

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

I agree with you on Crosbie's letters. The author gave him a very distinct voice. I was moved by Crosbie's plight and I'm shocked that Lauderback never responded to a single letter.

4

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Well, that was quite a ride ! I already enjoyed the book, but I admit it went along at quite a leisurely pace until then. This week's chapters brought a welcome change !

I'm still in the dark re: Crosbie's death and Staines' fate, can't wait to keep reading !

3

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Finally! We've been getting some momentum! I honestly forgot how long this book was/is since I'm reading like 3 others, but I'm also glad we're starting to see more into each character (more plot driven)

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Oh I agree! We seemed to be going around in circles for a while.

4

u/Amanda39 Ask Me About My Cat Oct 25 '25

This was so much more interesting than... well, that literally any other section we've read so far.

3

u/EveningAshamed9920 Oct 25 '25

We’re finally getting into the core mystery and it’s incredibly exciting and satisfying to see how all the threads that have been set up so far are unraveling!

3

u/Starfall15 Oct 26 '25

I have been catching up on all my readings. Some others are still behind. This last section seems the action has kicked in. Not sure if I feel this way since I caught up with the schedule and in the previous sections I was getting frustrated how much I still have to catch up with.

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

It just flew by! We're not trying to define our characters now that we have more information, we are onto the case.

I was even intrigued by the astrology:

"But the doubled fish of Pisces, that mirrored womb of self and self-awareness, is an ourobouros of mind-both the will of fate, and the fated will-and the house of self-undoing is a prison built by prisoners, airless, doorless and mortared from within"- Sun in Pisces

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 27 '25

Any idea what that means?!

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

Building your own obstacles I guess! Bound to failure…I wonder if this is for both Anna and Ah Sook?

2

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

Or maybe Lydia and Carver? They seem to have many plots in motion - or maybe just one very complicated plot - and I wonder if it will turn into their prison.

2

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 28 '25

Love to enemy status perhaps, driven by greed? Maybe she doesn’t need him anymore?

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

I'm still really enjoying it! There's always new and surprising information introduced in each section.

6

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q4 Do you think anyone was fooled by Lydia Wells’s tricks at the séance?

6

u/Starfall15 Oct 26 '25

I am impressed with Lydia being able to mimic Ah Sook's voice and intonation in a language she is, supposedly, unfamiliar with. I would like to know more about how she remembered his court speech. She was an actress?

5

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

I wondered about that, too, and even more about why she would have bothered to memorize Ah Sook's words. At the time, she would've had no idea they'd meet again or be involved in any way. Maybe they made a deep impression on Carver and he taught the words to Lydia for some reason?

1

u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 07 '25

Ah yes. I forgot Carver speaks Cantonese. I think you are right. He probably taught her the words or was repeating them in his sleep or something.

5

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 26 '25

She's very talented! Maybe she was.

4

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

I’m not sure about that, I think they will all be looking for rational explanations but some may well be taken in by her charm and tricks.

3

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I don't think so, to me, it was too dramatic. I bet a few were second-guessing themselves.

3

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Probably not. It must have been quite a show anyway, they got their money's worth.

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

I think it turned into a farce, if anything. Who was that message intended for if not Ah Sook? No one else understands Cantonese.

2

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

I agree, the message could only be for Ah Sook, but I'm having trouble understanding the motive behind it. Is it a warning for him to watch out for Carver? But I thought Lydia and Carver are working together, so why would she want to warn him?

3

u/Clean_Environment670 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Oct 29 '25

But if she gets Ah Sook to kill Carver, she doesn't have to share the fortune with Carver either!

3

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 29 '25

Ohhh, you're right, that could be it!

1

u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 07 '25

I think you are right. Good call.

1

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 28 '25

Idk…maybe Lydia just used him to get Crosbie’s fortune?

3

u/Clean_Environment670 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Oct 29 '25

Idk, but one of my favorite parts of the seance was how she hired two musicians for the party and all they knew were jigs so she had them play them as slowly as possible to make them sound spooky. Just genius. I need a Spotify playlist of this ASAP

1

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 30 '25

That was really funny!

7

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q7 From his letters, what sort of person was Crosbie Wells?

7

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Honestly, he seemed decent for a man in this time frame. His letters and friendship with Tauwhare show he had some integrity.

5

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

I think he was a fundamentally good person, I think he probably had a bit of a manipulative side but we see in the letters that when he gets angry in them he is quick to send another apologising for his attitude, I think he wants to build a life for himself where he could be content and I think that’s very close to what he achieved in his cottage before he was killed. I hope that the letters will be able to be used to prevent the fortune going to Lydia Wells, I think he deserved better than her.

3

u/EveningAshamed9920 Oct 25 '25

Wells seems like a kind hearted, sensible man with some daddy issues (which is to be expected, poor guy)! Seeing that Lauderback kept his letters, I’m sure the man felt some sort of connection towards his brother as well.

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

This is the most we have been able to hear from Crosbie Wells as a person, not just a corpse. He seems to have been a nice person but I don't know how he ended up with Lydia Wells. And did she steal his Dunedin gold??

3

u/Clean_Environment670 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Oct 29 '25

Well, if Lydia was telling the truth earlier about it- he won the jackpot at her gambling house and she offered to marry him instead of paying up, right? But was that before or after he struck it rich? Probably after and then she stole his gold, I'm thinking?

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 29 '25

Sounds like Lydia tbh and the marriage was a long con!

2

u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 07 '25

Ah yes. I bet she rigged the machine for him to win.

4

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q9 Crosbie wrote that he stayed in New Zealand because he liked the equality among men there? Do you have the same impression of New Zealand society at the time?

6

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

I think if you were to ask that question to Tauwhare or Ah Sook or Ah Quee the would give a very different answer so I’m going to suggest that there was equality among white men there, perhaps one’s class was less important but I think race was a definite source of inequality from what we have seen in the book.

7

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Ha, and that's what make it a 21th century book ! We've been shown over and over how badly Maori and Chinese people were treated, so no, "equality" in New Zealand was definitely not universal.

But, for a white person from a poor background, there probably were more opportunities to make it than in the UK. Though again, Lauderback, who I guess comes from a gentry family, never had to sift dirt in the mud to become an MP.

4

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Crosbie probably saw the best in people, but I think it was out of privilege-first, and then survival second. Equality sounds nice when you're in the majority

4

u/EveningAshamed9920 Oct 25 '25

New Zealand society at the time was definitely not “equal” from a modern day lens, but I’m sure compared to England, it must have been refreshing to be in a place where one’s social rank did not seem so set in stone!

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 25 '25

Yes, more equality amongst white men because indigenous people wouldn't have figured in his mind!

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

In terms of white men, yeah, maybe. I wouldn't say it's more equal, it's just that numbers being what they are, someone has to fulfill the role. And striking a gold hit could elevate you almost immediately economically, which really isn't something that can happen in other societies.

2

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

Right, and it seems like the stigma of being a prostitute's son maybe wasn't as strong in New Zealand.

2

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 28 '25

Certainly Moody and Gascognie, as well as Crosbie, came from questionable parentage!

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

It probably seemed closer to equality than anything he was familiar with. Much like Moody was surprised to see a room full of men of all different classes and backgrounds that night in the smoking room. There was a presence of diversity and that must have read as equality to Crosbie.

He at least treated his friend Tauwhare with kindness and respect. Perhaps he was projecting a sense of equality on the place because he himself would treat everyone equally.

6

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q11 It was perhaps reasonable for Moody to open the trunk to identify its owner, but should he then have fossicked right through it? Would you have read the letters?

9

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

I think that if they hadn’t had the meeting in the pub and Moody hadn’t been so intrigued by the whole affair he probably would have closed the trunk straight away but knowing how eager Lauderback was to be reunited with his trunk it was probably natural to want to know what was in there that was of so much value to him.

One of the things that I like so much about this book is that none of the characters are wholly good, they all have shades of grey about them and whilst his decision to go through everything in the trunk was questionable I think it was human and makes Moody a much more realistic character.

5

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

I agree, I could see myself doing the same if I thought I wouldn't get caught (though if my husband saw me, he would have talked me out of it). But I don't think I could trust my ability to put everything back the way it was, if only because my knot-tying skills (for the letters) are abysmal.

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 28 '25

Well, it has been in a wreck, so things may have shifted naturally!

4

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Certainly not, especially since Lauderback took care of conceiling the letters.

But, maybe he did it for the same reason why Devlin took the deed away : circumstances are quite dire, they are, however unofficially, in the midst of a murder inquiry, and surely anything goes ?

3

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I think opening the trunk made sense if there wasn't something obvs to identify the owner, and in terms of the letters, as someone else mentioned, when you're in the thick of things, you don't have time to think. I get peoples mail all the time and never read them lol so I doubt I'd read these letters.

4

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

I mean, if there wasn't a whole mystery to unravel, sure, return right away. But he knew exactly whose case this was and did due diligence. I wonder if was intentionally planted in Moody's room?

3

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

Oh wow, I didn't even think about it being intentional. Who could've done it and why?? (Haha, I feel like I've replied "WHY, THO?" to most of your comments in this discussion.) Regardless, I'm starting to think the staff at Hokitika's port are suspiciously inept.

2

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 28 '25

I really wonder about Carver…maybe he had the trunk sent to the wrong person very intentionally, to further discredit Lauerback??

4

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

TIL the word fossicked! :D

5

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 28 '25

Yay my work is done!

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

Love this word fossicked! It wasn't in my vocabulary yet.

I don't think I would rifle through someone else's trunk that much, but the letters were very interesting. If I had picked them up to try to find the identity of the owner of the case and read the first few lines, I might have been compelled to read on.

2

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 31 '25

Interesting - maybe the word fossick is used more in the southern hemisphere because I do use it. In fact my high school annual was called "Fossicker".

1

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

When I searched it, it said it was primarily used in Australia and New Zealand!

5

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q13 Do you believe that Carver was the father of Anna's baby?

5

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

I’m not sure, I think that Carver is an abhorrent character and I don’t want to believe anything he says but there was something about the way he responded that did make me wonder.

3

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

There's that, and also the suspicious timing of when Anna revealed the father's supposed identity.

5

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I think his reaction was genuine, as bad as the character is.

5

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Possibly, and I honestly want to believe it was consensual, but again, in this part of the book, anything goes

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

I'm with everyone that I'm doubting not only Anna's story about the baby, but much, much more!

As far as we saw back with Ah Sook's history, Carver went to see Lydia specifically, not to visit the whorehouse generally.

3

u/Clean_Environment670 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Oct 29 '25

I agree with others- he's a Very Bad Man but I think he was telling the truth about that.

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

The way he denied it seemed credible. I think she may have pinned it on him for some other reason. I'm eager to find out their whole deal.

4

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q3 Did anything surprise you in this section?

6

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

Yes, I was very surprised to learn that Crosbie Wells was Lauderback’s illegitimate brother, I’m now wondering whether Lauderback has lied about how Carver got his hands on the Godspeed and whether he actually gave it to Carver in return for killing Crosbie?

7

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Oh wow, it never occurred to me, but it could make sense!

5

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

It's entirely possible that he lied!

2

u/Clean_Environment670 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Oct 29 '25

Oooo I could totally see that! I was definitely thinking he intentionally went to Crosbie's with intent to kill but having someone else do it is much more likely for a man of his position.

6

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Obviously the plot twists : Crosbie and Lauderback being brothers, and Lydia quoting Ah Sook in the most underhanded way.

But, above all, the turn towards the paranormal : is Anna... haunted? by Staines ? Is he draining her strength (hence her weight loss), while sharing part of his mind (so she knows how to read ? Or she knows this specific document ? And his signature, too?)

The book was quite grounded up until now, astrology stuff aside, I wasn't expecting that. Not that I mind.

2

u/EveningAshamed9920 Oct 25 '25

I’m guessing maybe Crosbie was involved with Lydia’s scheme and taught her the Chinese she used, as he is fluent in the language! I was also surprised and a bit disappointed at the hint at paranormal elements being involved!

2

u/Clean_Environment670 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Oct 29 '25

The paranormal angle you mention had not occurred to me at all but you make some convincing points that lead that way! It would seem out of the blue to take a totally paranormal turn with things tho so I'm wondering if that's a red herring of sorts and there will be a complicated yet rational explanation.

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

It hadn't occurred to me either. This book is all about people scheming against other people. Perhaps someone wants Anna to believe she is haunted, but I don't think there will be paranormal explanations given for the things in this book.

4

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I'm going to agree with current comments on the whole illegitimate-but-legit brothers

4

u/Amanda39 Ask Me About My Cat Oct 25 '25

The letters from Crosbie surprised me, and I'm absolutely dying to know what's going on with Anna.

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

Besides Wells's revelation, we can see people are betraying trust left and right. Moody keeping Wells's secret seems preventing pretty relevant information to the case, not just to their circle. Anna signing the document in front of Devlin a deliberate provocation. Will Ah Sook be able to shoot Carver and what will that mean overall? I wonder what Carver knows that could make him key to the investigation!

2

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

Carver is definitely watching for Ah Sook, so I think he'll have a hard time killing Carver. I was surprised Moody didn't try harder to dissuade Ah Sook, and actually gave him advice about what gun to buy!

1

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 28 '25

Maybe knowing Carver is watching the road means Ah Sook can take a different path to his room and do the dark deed?

5

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q12 Do you think Ah Sook will achieve his goal of killing Carver?

6

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

If I had to bet, I think so. Proper tragedy ending - and then he dies, too.

Hopefully I'm mistaken !

3

u/ProofPlant7651 Russian Literature Philosophy Professional Oct 24 '25

I hope not, I want to see Ah Sook find peace and I hope that will happen by seeing Carver punished for his misdeeds not by making himself a murderer.

4

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I think he will, but it’s going to be ironic and probably symbolic? I know someone else mentioned a tragedy and I +1 that. Feels like karma is lining up

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

Maybe someone else will beat him to it? He can't be the only one with a grudge against Carver.

5

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q14 What do you predict for the rest of the book?

6

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I'm sure, or at least I'm hoping that there are more twists at we get to the next half (end) of the book.

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

It's really picked up steam in this section. Very intricate plot development-I hope the end isn't some ghost story.

3

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

That would be so annoying, it would feel like Catton wrote herself into a tangle and needed a deus ex machina to get out of it.

2

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 28 '25

Yes! I want real elements and motives!

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q6 At this point, how do you think Carver might have acquired his scar?

4

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

.... I'm going to blame Lydia lol I haven't liked her since the beginning, so that's where I'm pointing my finger

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q8 Why didn't Lauderback respond to the letters? Why did he keep them?

6

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I can see why he wouldn't bother answering - probably he wouldn't want to be burdened with a struggling half-brother with no prospects - but at the same time, I guess he would feel guilty burning them ?

That, or he might want to use them for some nefarious purpose, but I can't see how.

The fact that he showed up exactly during the night in which his half brother has been killed is extremely suspicious !

5

u/Starfall15 Oct 26 '25

If he replies he acknowledges his existence and the start of a relationship whether he believes he is his brother or not. He can always deny having received any letter. He kept them, as they might end up being useful.

5

u/Clean_Environment670 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Oct 29 '25

I think this is more likely than any sentimental reason. This is more calculated and practical which is more his character!

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

I also think he kept the letters as a just in case. I don't think they meant much to him.

5

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I think it's more suspicious, like some people keep trinkets or momentos?

6

u/Amanda39 Ask Me About My Cat Oct 25 '25

Too proud to reply, too sentimental to throw them out. Maybe he felt guilty about not replying, although it seems weird that he'd let it go on for so many years.

5

u/EveningAshamed9920 Oct 25 '25

Maybe he was scared that being discovered to be in correspondence with Wells would ruin his reputation but wasn’t heartless and detached enough to discard the letters altogether

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

I think Lauderback had no intention of associating with this long lost brother. It would harm his image. I think he took notice of the letters when Crosbie claimed he was the richer of the two. I think Lauderback may have cooked something up to get Crosbie's fortune.

It's no coincidence he was there to discover his body before it was even cold. He intimately knows Crosbie through his letters, but he hasn't mentioned it to anyone. He pretends he came upon the house of a hermit and the body of a stranger. There is more to this.

2

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 31 '25

I think he took notice of the letters when Crosbie claimed he was the richer of the two.

Good point, he did too.

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q10 If he isn't dead, where do you think Emery Staines is?

7

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Stuck in Anna's mind :p ; or, probably, somewhere in hiding.

2

u/Clean_Environment670 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 Oct 29 '25

Maybe he's hiding somewhere in the Wayfarer's Fortune and he's actually whispering messages to Anna in her sleep or something? Or maybe in a drugged state? I know she's off the opium but her weight loss has me suspicious that Lydia is poisoning her for some reason...

1

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

They should check Anna's dresses! It's the best hiding place.

5

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

I think he's on a ship, right there docked

4

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

Hiding in a secret bunker under Crosbie's cabin? Lol, I have no idea.

3

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

Now I think he definitely isn't dead but in hiding.

2

u/Comprehensive-Fun47 📚Bookclub Boffin📚 ||🧠🥉 Oct 31 '25

So many assume he is dead, so I think he's not. He's either in hiding or being held somewhere. I don't have any guesses deeper than that.

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q15 Can you offer any explanation for these chapter titles?

4

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

If I knew more astrology, I'd feel more confident in my guess that they're tied to these characters' traits or fate?

3

u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 Born To Read, Forced To Work | 🎃👑🧠 Oct 28 '25

Cardinal Earth: supposedly this refers to Capricorn, which is odd because Gascoigne doesn't figure very strongly in this chapter.

Month Without A Moon: Google results are a little confusing, but it seems to be an ideal time for introspection, transformation, and releasing negative energy.

The other chapters refer to interactions between characters: Lydia and Ah Sook, Moody and Ah Sook, Anna and Devlin.

1

u/sunnydaze7777777 Flair Master 🐉 Nov 07 '25 edited Nov 07 '25

Month without a moon. Since we decided Stains is the moon, it makes sense it’s about him and he didn’t show at the séance.

Also Earth was possibly Crosbie Wells so this chapter was about his story. Not sure about the Cardinal part/Capricorn.

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Q16 Is there anything else you would like to discuss?

4

u/Chipsvater Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Should we know who Elizabeth, the woman who was killed by her husband (and not her dog), was ? Do you think we'll hear from her again ?

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Or is she a fabrication?

2

u/EveningAshamed9920 Oct 25 '25

I was also wondering whether she would come up later, as she seems to have played a fairly in Ah Sook’s story..

4

u/byanka0923 Casual Participant Oct 24 '25

Has anyone watched the movie version?

3

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 24 '25

Do you mean the Netflix series or is there a movie as well? I've added the series to my watchlist.

2

u/lazylittlelady Poetry Patron Oct 27 '25

How does Ah Sook know about the "Black Sands" in his tip to Moody re: gold? Will Moody take the information? He did give him a solid tip about Carver's whereabouts.

2

u/nicehotcupoftea World Reader Leader | 🎃🧠🥇 Oct 27 '25

The Black Sands was mentioned right at the start too with someone, not sure who, telling Moody about it.