r/baseball • u/[deleted] • Jul 13 '16

Baseball and Its LGBT Fans: At the Crossroads of Progress

"Why are you going to so many Cubs games? Why do /you/ care?"

-said by too many people to count

"You know you're gay, right?"

-said by a friend after seeing me decked out in Cubs gear

"I swear, there are more faggots here every season."

-Asshole next to me on the El

"We get it you suck dick. But stay out of sports."

-A different asshole near me at a game

"Now, why do they have to do that here..."

-An uncomfortable mother the row behind a guy I was holding hands with

LGBT baseball fans are queer, they're here, and the MLB needs to get used to it. While players are overwhelmingly ready for gay teammates, ownership, marketing and fans in the stadium have been hesitant to accept that there are many LGBT baseball fans. Baseball executives have been obsessed with getting young people more interested in the game, while ignoring that fact that Major League Baseball does very little to encourage interest in kids who will grow up to be LGBT. The last five years especially have seen historic growth in LGBT rights, but the sports world has mostly failed to adjust.

Teams like the Padres, Mets, and Cubs have pride-themed days and even have floats in their cities' pride parades. This is a great start. There is a huge market to be tapped into, and a large group of people who would otherwise be interested in the game who feel that they do not have a place at the table. I don't appear stereotypically gay, and several times have had fellow fans near me at ballgames pass indescribably homophobic remarks, not realizing I am gay. Of course, assholes will be assholes but there is a "macho" attitude still pervasive in the experience of going to a baseball game that is unacceptable.

A clear marketing shift and engaging in things like pride events, not permitting hateful homophobic remarks from patrons at the stadiums, simply not kicking out or reprimanding same-sex couples who happen to kiss in public, and penalizing players further for homophobic actions and remarks could go a long way in encouraging new fans from different walks of life to join in this amazing game.

I write this not to play the victim. I'm a happy, proud LGBT baseball fan and I've been able to brush off the negative experiences I have had because of that combination. But it is something that has been on my mind after years of being a gay baseball fan, and this symposium seems like the right time to share my thoughts and start a conversation. I truly love this subreddit and think that some discussion will be helpful to a lot of people, including myself.

I write this to admit the fact that I do not feel very comfortable participating in my favorite sport live because of an ingrained culture of macho homophobia. Things are absolutely moving in the right direction, and as young people grow up to become players and other MLB professionals I believe this attitude will change. But for now, baseball (and all professional sports) must make a place for its marginalized fans. Societally, people are permitted more than ever to be their true selves, and otherwise great institutions like the MLB and its fans must go with this tide or see the game become stagnant.

Other interesting reading on this topic:

LGBT Inclusion In Major League Baseball Is Long Overdue

With Gay Fans, Major League Baseball Strikes Out Looking

Out Sports

295 Upvotes

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104

u/DeadhardyAQ San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

It's the opposite in SF

72

u/penceinyapants San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

At pride night they were showing dudes making out with each other on the kiss cam. Definitely not an issue in sf lol

82

u/trolloc1 Toronto Blue Jays Jul 14 '16

At pride night in SF they should show a guy and girl making out. ayyy

9

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

there are so many superior cams anyway, I'd rather get rid of it altogether. bongo cam > kiss cam

16

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

I love the Simba cam!!!

2

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

lol I'd never seen that. I think that validates my point.

8

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

Its for people holding babies to lift them up to the sky. It's amazing. I think the Nuggets, Braves, and some college teams have done it

3

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

Yea, I just watched a Youtube video of it from a Braves game. That's so cool. and to think I've been doing that at home to no one in particular like an idiot.

1

u/metssuck Philadelphia Phillies Jul 14 '16

The Magic use it all of the time, I love that cam.

2

u/BornWorried Texas Rangers Jul 14 '16

At a Rangers game recently they had a bare-headed Beltre sliding across the bottom of the big screen(s) and people had to try and pat his head

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '16

That's awesome

27

u/forestation Jul 14 '16 edited Jul 14 '16

But do they show it on other nights?

Having said that, I can't say I've ever felt self conscious at a Giants game, and I don't recall hearing any homophobic slurs in at least the last 4 years.

I realize things might be different in other cities. I still remember Tim Lincecum getting taunted and wolf whistled by fans in Philly, which made my blood boil at the time.

15

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

To be fair most of the time on kiss cams they show two people who aren't kissing yet. So you normally show a guy and a girl who might be together. The presumption with 2 guys or 2 girls is that they're just friends

15

u/hannahmadamhannah Baltimore Orioles Jul 14 '16

I thought that was the case too, and I mentioned that to my gay friend. But she said that she'd actually looked into it and she read that often they'll spend all game watching a couple to make sure that they're together. Which is something you can probably identify with a gay couple as well.

12

u/the_furry_stoner New York Mets Jul 14 '16

Ohnoshit. Wow. That's creepy. But understandable.

7

u/hannahmadamhannah Baltimore Orioles Jul 14 '16

Well I mean I've heard this from a friend, and now you heard it from an internet stranger who heard it from a friend, so, grains of salt. But it kind of makes sense.

5

u/the_furry_stoner New York Mets Jul 14 '16

Nah, everything people say on the internet is true. Trust me, I'm a scientist.

2

u/hannahmadamhannah Baltimore Orioles Jul 14 '16

Well after doing a little more research I think it varies by team. But they do frequently look for signs indicating that the two people are a couple. And you can trust me, because I'm bored at work.

4

u/bduddy Japan Jul 14 '16

I mean, it's better than the alternative, which is showing people that definitely don't want to kiss each other.

2

u/justin_tino San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

I'd imagine it's not like the entire game, but there are probably at least one or two cameras dedicated to only looking at fans, whether it's for the jumbotron or broadcast. It can be a pretty quick assessment to determine if someone is a couple or not, and if the're unsure they have thousands of other people to look through.

5

u/poser4life San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

I was at a Sharks game once and they got the wrong woman.. The guy pointed to his Left and the camera shifted

2

u/the_furry_stoner New York Mets Jul 14 '16

Yeah, there's a lot more straight people out there than LGBT folks. So showing two guys likely gets nothing. Especially at a sports event. I mean, even when you just show a guy and gal there's a chance they're brother-sister or cousins.

I never realized how hard it is to be a camera guy in a ballpark.

11

u/atb0rg San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

I'm sure it happens at every game. I'm always amazed at how people can be bigoted assholes, even at AT&T. Remember the shithead that threw a banana at Adam Jones a couple years ago? Never felt so ashamed to be a Giants fan.

14

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

[deleted]

2

u/bashar_al_assad Radar Gun • Abe Lincoln Jul 14 '16

"its free fruit man whats the problem"

5

u/BruteSentiment San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

As a season ticket holder, I wouldn't say it happens at every game, but it is fairly regular. I admit, I don't watch the Kiss Cam as regularly as others. It's just another between innings thing where I might be talking with someone, or going to get food or something.

4

u/justin_tino San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

I'm always looking forward to seeing the old people (65+) just go ham on each others faces, making the younger couples look like prudes. It's hilarious.

2

u/Webpage404 San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

I'm glad to hear this. I have never once seen this and I make a point of looking for this every time I go.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

But do they show it on other nights?

Yep, and have been for years.

10

u/90percenthalfmental New York Mets Jul 14 '16

I was at ATT park for Pride night this year and I noticed the kiss cam was about 50/50 straight/gay couples.

On the other hand, the Mets kiss cam used to include a joke gay couple dressed in the opposing teams uniform. I think they only stopped doing that last year or something. I went to Citi field for a family outing, including my gay brother and his partner, last year. Mortifying to see that.

15

u/luciu_az Jul 14 '16

I was a season ticket holder for the dbacks last year, and used some points included to get my wife and I on the kiss cam. The announcer guy came to our section, found a straight couple at the other end of our row, and featured them despite us getting his attention and telling him it was for us.

I was pissed, and sent letters to my account rep and the front office. They said it was an oversight and they wanted to make it up. The next Friday was "Faith and Family" night, so I said we wanted to be on the kiss cam then, which they agreed to.

Sadly, I just can't follow the team like I did.

9

u/90percenthalfmental New York Mets Jul 14 '16

I'm sorry to hear of your experience. It's good they wanted to make up for it, but to call it an "oversight" was disingenuous on their part. Hopefully this has resulted in more inclusive training for the announcers involved and other workers at the stadium. This is exactly the kind of thing needs to change to make all fans feel welcome.

-10

u/SnakeAColdCruiser Philadelphia Phillies Jul 14 '16

Why would you make a point to be on kiss cam during faith and family night?

9

u/luciu_az Jul 14 '16

We felt very slighted, and what we suggested to each other jokingly seemed like a good test of the team's commitment to making it right. My wife and I have been together for 16 years, and have 2 kids, so I wanted the team to recognize that our family was valid, too.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

I'm really glad you did that! Being a functioning family unit is not "shoving it in anyone's faces" (if I hear that one more time.......), it's people confronting their own stuff

1

u/SnakeAColdCruiser Philadelphia Phillies Jul 14 '16

I can accept that.

16

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

She said she was there with her wife. They're a family.

-10

u/SnakeAColdCruiser Philadelphia Phillies Jul 14 '16

Oh so not trying to stick a finger in anyone's eye.

7

u/CleverUserName755 Jul 14 '16

So it's okay for the team to completely diss her and her relationship but not ok for her to want to draw attention to that?

-1

u/SnakeAColdCruiser Philadelphia Phillies Jul 14 '16

She felt dissed, made it known and the team apologized (or did I not get that right?). In any case I was genuinely wondering why she zeroed in on "faith and family night" for her 5 seconds of making out on the jumbotron. Maybe she didn't target that night, idk.

13

u/TACnyc New York Mets Jul 14 '16

Because it would be great to be featured on the kiss cam during a night that celebrates families?

Also, in case you're thinking it, faith does not mean anti-homosexuality.

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2

u/Cjwillwin San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

Turner field in 2010 they did the normal kiss cam then went to two dudes and started playing "I'm Mr lonely"

23

u/ddt9 Los Angeles Dodgers Jul 14 '16

Hey look, it's the single thing about the Giants I like

30

u/readwrite_blue San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

A group of dudes literally yelled "BREEDERS" at my girlfriend and I as we walked across Levi landing. It was a pretty surreal experience.

9

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

were they doing it ironically? I can definitely see it being surreal.

11

u/Dailylife Chicago Cubs Jul 14 '16

Yeah, I can't think of any time someone has used that to be actually offensive. Generally I hear that at Pride in a friendly joking manner.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

gotta give it to the LGBT community, they have a great sense of humor

6

u/Dailylife Chicago Cubs Jul 14 '16

I think a lot of us developed humor as a defense mechanism, especially at periods when we were in the closet. If people are laughing they can't ask the more intrusive questions.

1

u/readwrite_blue San Francisco Giants Jul 14 '16

It sounded sincere but you're right, that was likely part of their joke. Either way it's not like we felt attacked or like we were discouraged from going to games. I don't bring it up for any other reason than to show that AT&T has a different culture than most parks to the point that ostracism is something like a joke.

Even in the cheap seats I've never heard anyone yelling gay slurs at players or fans.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

That's awesome, but I promise the Giants are not free from homophobia both within their organization and in the ballpark. Look at any team's Facebook comments on their page.

8

u/BBelichick Boston Red Sox Jul 14 '16

If you're gauging society on facebook comments, you're gonna have a bad time

4

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

Oh of course, but it definitely shows how many people who are fans of your sports team are shitty

2

u/randommab Boston Red Sox Jul 14 '16

Sadly, I don't think you're going to find a single facebook page the size of an MLB team's that isn't full of nasty garbage like that.