r/whichbike • • Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

412 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike • • 40m ago

Good deal

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• Upvotes

Giant Contend AR 2 road bike in size Small (S), dark metallic finish. Shimano Tiagra 10-speed drivetrain with Tektro mechanical disc brakes (160mm rotors). Giant S-R2 disc wheelset, Gavia Fondo 2 tubeless tires (700x32c). Bought to get into road cycling, but I prefer a daily commuter — so it's up for sale. Comes with a kickstand and a fender (both removable), plus a rear rack that fits a commuter pannier. Very good condition overall, just needs a cleaning and tune-up. The handlebar tape has a bend in it, but fresh tape costs under $30 to replace. Price is firm.

Giant Contend AR 2 road bike in size Small (S), dark metallic finish. Shimano Tiagra 10-speed drivetrain with Tektro mechanical disc brakes (160mm rotors). Giant S-R2 disc wheelset, Gavia Fondo 2 tubeless tires (700x32c). Bought to get into road cycling, but I prefer a daily commuter — so it's up for sale. Very good condition overall, just needs a cleaning and tune-up. The handlebar tape has a bend in it, but fresh tape costs under $30 to replace. Full commuter bundle included (over $400 in accessories): Kryptonite Evolution Jr U-lock, Giant cable lock, MEC commuter pannier, MEC USB-rechargeable LED bike light, folding bike multi-tool with chain breaker, Giant cycling sunglasses with spare lens and hard case, helmet, kickstand and fender (both removable), and rear rack. Price is firm.

Specs:

Frame: ALUXX-grade aluminum, size Small
Fork: Advanced-grade composite (carbon), OverDrive steerer
Drivetrain: Shimano Tiagra 2x10 — 50/34 crankset, 11-34 cassette
Brakes: Tektro mechanical disc, 160mm rotors front and rear
Wheels: Giant S-R2 disc, 12mm thru-axles
Tires: Giant Gavia Fondo 2 tubeless, 700x32c (fits up to 38mm)
Seatpost: Giant D-Fuse composite; saddle: Giant Approach
Extras: fender mounts, tubeless-ready

Worth $800 CAD


r/whichbike • • 16m ago

What year is this model of Zipp 808 from?

• Upvotes

r/whichbike • • 4h ago

Looking for a city bike that can handle hills, bumpy roads, and a future child seat, open to used options

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for recommendations on choosing the right city bicycle.
I’ve decided against an e-bike because I want the exercise, but I have a few specific requirements

  • I'm 1.74, weighing around 74 kg. Total riding weight with a backpack and helmet is about 80 kg.
  • Will mostly commute to work - a 5-6 km ride. The way includes a some poorly paved, bumpy streets and uneven asphalt.
    • The terrain is mostly standard city flats, but there is one short, very steep, hill on my way to work.
  • I really prefer a more upright, comfortable riding position over a aggressive, forward-leaning mountain bike or fitness stance. Think of an urban/classic look (like a modern step-through or Dutch-style commuter) but lighter and geared for hills.
  • In about two years, I plan to attach a rear child seat to commute with my kid (to kindergarten/school). The route to the kindergarten will be flat and standard (no major hills with the kid), but I need a sturdy frame that won't vibrate excessively on bumpy roads, don't want to shake the kiddo too much.
  • I'm prefer a budget-friendly option but I prefer quality over price so I'm open to buying used/second-hand, so I am open to older models or various brand suggestions.

Given the steep hill on my solo commute and the added weight of a child in the future, from what I could gather I'd need a good gear range. I also understood I'll need wider tires to cushion the bumpy roads and strong brakes (preferably hydraulic discs) for safe stopping power down the road.

Which bike categories or specific models (Trek, Marin, Specialized, Electra, etc.) should I be hunting for on the used market?

A little Googling gave me the following options:

  • Marin Larkspur (1 or 2)
  • Marin Fairfax
  • Trek Verve LowStep (specifically Verve 2 Disc or Verve 3 Disc)
  • Trek FX Series (e.g., Trek FX 2 Disc / FX 3 Disc)
  • Specialized Crossroads
  • Giant Escape Disc (e.g., Escape 2 Disc)

But I'm not sure how good they are since the posture seems very sporty and forward leaning from the pictures (if I got them right).

Thanks in advance for your help!


r/whichbike • • 8h ago

looking for road bikes in ahmedabad

0 Upvotes

Hi, i am looking to finally upgrade from my single speed road bike. i am currently in college and i want to upgrade to a bike thats aluminum. I am 5'4 currently. my budget is around 30-35k. was looking at bikes like the battalion frontline v3 claris and rc120 at first, so would appreciate any offers which offer similar feature, like 2x drivetrains, aluminum body, road bikes. also, if anyone has any idea where i could search, would be most thankful


r/whichbike • • 10h ago

2021 Giant TCR Advanced 2 vs 2025 TCR Advanced 2 KOM

1 Upvotes

Hello guys/gals, I'm new here so please be kind!

I've been running (and cycling occasionally) for a while and I'm thinking about diving deeper into cycling. Got myself some Favero powermeter pedals and I'm thinking of upgrading my bike for something that's more up to date with the current standards. My current bike is a very sweet 2005 Look 585 that I don't think I'll be selling anytime soon.

After reading everything I could about the other prospects (Cannondale Supersix Evo, mostly), I decided to go for the Giant TCR. I have a chance to get a 2021 TCR Advanced 2 for $2000 canadian dollars or a brand new 2025 TCR Advanced 2 KOM for around $3500. Both come with Shimano 105 but the 2025 version is 12sp instead of 11sp.

Which would you choose? For almost double the price, is the 2025 version worth the extra money?


r/whichbike • • 12h ago

Opinions on FELT IAx Advanced? 4.5k euros

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1 Upvotes

r/whichbike • • 20h ago

CAAD10 $600

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6 Upvotes

i don’t really know much what are your thoughts??


r/whichbike • • 17h ago

Ozark Trail Rebel G.2 vs. REI Co-op ADV 2.1 — Which one stays for a budget gravel/commuter build?

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1 Upvotes

I've asked in r/gravelcycling, but figured I'd get some takes here as well.

I’m retuning to biking after over a decade away. I could use advice from more experienced folks. My primary usage is commuting (with panniers), but I love the outdoors and would love the option of hitting some mild trails while camping, etc.

I got a medium Ozark Trail Rebel G.2 ($648) a couple of weeks ago, set it up with a rack, Shimano hybrid pedals, lights, and planned to install compressionless housings and fenders last weekend...which is when I found an open-box large REI Co-op ADV 2.1 ($675!) that has nearly identical components (and already equipped with Jagwire brake housings).

I either return the Ozark or sell the ADV.

On paper (and by reputation?), the REI sounds like it could be the better product long-term but the Ozark feels better when ridden. Yes, the "medium" OT is more my size on paper, but I don't think the frame size on the ADV is causing the difference in feel. I'd much rather support REI than the Great Value bike, but idk if that trumps bike-feel.

Here is how they stack up side-by-side:

Component / Feature Ozark Trail Rebel G.2 REI Co-op ADV 2.1
Price Paid (MSRP) $648 (same) $675 ($1,499)
Frame Material 6061 aluminum same
Fork full carbon same
Crankset 42T 40T ProWheel
Drivetrain 1x10 MicroShift Sword (Non-clutched, 11-48T) 1x10 MicroShift Sword (Clutched RD-G7005M, 11-48T) with SRAM UDH
Brakes Tektro MD-C550 (Standard housing) total mush Tektro MD-C550 Dual-Piston (Jagwire compressionless housings) much better responsiveness over the OT bike
Mounting Points ** ** 3-bolt: both fork legs; 2-bolt: top tube, seat tube, down tube (2x) 3-bolt: both fork legs, down tube (top); 2-bolt: top tube (2x), seat tube, down tube (under)
Max Load 220 lbs (100 kg) 300 lb (136 kg)
Wheels / Rims generic? alloy, 700c (apparently tubeless-ready) WTB ST i21 TCS 2.0 700c tubeless-ready
Tires 40mm Kenda Piedmonts 45mm Kenda Piedmonts
Assembly / Tuning personal box build tuned at REI Bike Shop

r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Thoughts on the asking price?

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29 Upvotes

Seller has a Litespeed Siena and is asking $1850

From the description:

"Frame Size: 51 cm / Small (Ideal fit for riders 5'2" to 5'6" / 157cm – 168cm)

Frame Material: Aerospace 3AL/2.5V Titanium (Made in USA) with Easton EC90 Carbon Fork

Drivetrain: 11-Speed Shimano Ultegra/Dura-Ace Mix with OSPW Ceramic Pulley

Gearing: 48/32T Sub-Compact Crankset | 11-34T Wide-Range Cassette

Brakes: EEbrake Replica Calipers (Fits 28mm tires)

Headset: Chris King Precision

Wheelset: PSMIT Custom Endurance Clinchers with Continental GP5000 Tires"

Thanks!


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Cannondale vs Viner

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6 Upvotes

I have good offer for both of them. I like both of them cannondale is icon but viner have charm too. What do you think pls? "Newschool" vs Oldschool, aluminium vs steel


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Good deal?

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3 Upvotes

I’m going to test ride this bike tomorrow. It’s being offered for $225. Assuming I like how it feels, is it a good deal? My kiddo is loving riding bikes, so I need something to keep up with him :)


r/whichbike • • 21h ago

Suspiciously Good Deal for Cannondale Topstone Carbon 1 Lefty

1 Upvotes

From WA state in the US.

Wondering if I've identified the bike right, I almost can't believe my eyes, this bike is only 3? years old, and has a MSRP of almost $8,000, now on marketplace for $1500. The seller even provided the serial and that cleared just fine. Serial #TC39830. Sent extra photos and all the right parts appear present, but I will check further in person. Wondering if I'm insane, if it was just an insane find, if this is a scam, thoughts??


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

GT Avalanche 2.0 worth it at $200?

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3 Upvotes

It’s on sale at a pawn shop nearby me.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Cannondale Topstone CAAD 2 CUES 1X - Giant Revolt 1

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2 Upvotes

I am 1.88 meters(6'2") tall and weigh 106(233lbs) kilograms. I mostly ride on asphalt, but occasionally on rough roads. I'm buying it for both cardio and touring cycling. Frame quality, groupset, and wheel durability – which do you think would suit my needs?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Need help finding out the price of this bike

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2 Upvotes

Had it for years got it from my late uncle, can’t find a price or exact match on the web. Only thing I found out is that it has the Rampar badge and says reaction on the front.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Qualè sceglieresti tra canyon aeroad e giant propel?

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5 Upvotes

Quale è la bici più cool tra queste due?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Is this a good deal, asking $600, clip in pedals not included

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3 Upvotes

r/whichbike • • 1d ago

女性用のApollo Excelle Womens Hybridバイク

0 Upvotes

やあ!ちょっと聞きたいんだけど、フレームSって私の身長に合う?(165cm)

前は大学でNextbikeのレンタルサービス使ってたんだけど、ある日突然閉めちゃってさ。 アドバイスありがとう!


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Best alternative for bike like State 4130 Road v2?

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1 Upvotes

Hello, I want to get an entry level road bike and my used market isn’t very appealing right now. I liked this bike when I found out about it but it’s sold out of my size.

I want a simple road bike for around this $500-700 price point. Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Is this worth $375? How much would you pay for this

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2 Upvotes

I am a 5'1 F planning on doing an ironman 70.3 looking into getting a bike (beginner). Is this size good for me and how much would you pay for this? I feel like it's kinda small but i'm also short so i have no idea lol

Trek Lexa SLX WSD Women's Road Bike - 43cm (XS)

• Frame Size: 43cm (Women's Extra Small). Features a low 65.4 cm standover height and a comfortable 48 cm effective top tube.
• Frame Material: 200 Series Alpha Aluminum with highly finished premium welds.
• Fork: Trek Carbon Road Fork (soaks up road bumps, integrated SpeedTrap wireless computer sensor compatible).
• Drivetrain: 2x10 Speed (Compact Double Crankset). Great premium gearing that is efficient on flat ground while remaining easy to pedal up steep hills.
• Shifters & Derailleurs: Shimano 105. Premium, crisp, race-grade shifting that is highly reliable.
• Wheels: Bontrager SSR wheelset.
• Tires: Bontrager Race Lite.
• Components: Bontrager Affinity 1 WSD specific saddle, carbon seatpost, and VR-S handlebars designed comfortably for women's proportions.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Recs for steel 650b commuter

1 Upvotes

I’ll be getting back into bike commuting next year when one of my kids starts at a new preschool further from my house. My current bikes are vintage steel (1 road and 1 MTB) with 24” wheels (yes, kids bikes - I’m very short) that just aren’t suitable for a double trailer. I’m looking for a xxs steel framed bike with 650b wheels. I’m fine with either flat bar or drops with a slight preference for flat bar. My commute will include a big hill so may need some decent range in the gears.

Recommendations? Thank you!


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Canyon vs Cube for Triathlon

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1 Upvotes

Struggling between these two:

  1. ⁠Canyon speedmax CF SLX 7 Di2 (shimano 105)
  2. ⁠Cube aerium c:68X (Ultegra di2).

The price is almost the same.

Which is better? Which one looks cooler?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

2024 Giant Revolt 2 gravel bike, whats it worth?

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1 Upvotes

As the title says: 2024 giant revolt 2 gravel bike, size ML, only 2 photos provided.

Seller is asking $700, I dont want to low ball the guy but this seems a bit high to me. Any ideas on what would be a fair starting point for negotiating?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Worth it?

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0 Upvotes

Will use every day as daily commute for school, love road bikes have used them all my life.