(Hated)changing somenthing to be more "progressive" ends up being a bad thing

[u/Morr4Seiya]

Now to be clear,i am not one of these "anti-woke" losers that complain some people exist,and i am also not the type to complain about changing somenthing in a new version or adaptation,however there are cases where it did ended up being a bad idea.

-In the anime of Cowboy Bebop there is the character Gren,despite being short lived the character is very memorable specially thanks to his tragic story.Basically his story was that he was a soldier from the titan war who was a great friend with Vicious(the main bad guy)after the war he was emprisioned thanks to Vicious who testified against him and he was forced to take a experimental drug that caused him hormonal problems,giving him a feminine appearence and even breasts.

In the Netflix live action,for some reasons they decided Gren was going to be non-binary,which wouldn't be a problem(some people believe he was gay in the anime)if it wasn't for the fact that they also removed all the nuances and complexities that made the character memorable and interesting,instead of a tragic war veteran that was betrayed and had his body changed against his will,Gren is just kinda there.

-The original Rugrats cartoon had the couple Betty and Howard,Betty was a big and masculine woman while Howard was a smaller and nervous man,it was a genuine interesting relationship that stood out from the other couples who were the standard straight couple.

In the new series however they replaced Howard with a woman named Trish,two things,first off why?What was the problem with having a woman being the stronger in a straight relationship?Second why does Hollywood seem to think that every tomboy or masculine woman is a lesbian?

Overall not the worst thing but it is jarring that they had a gender reverse roled that was progressive and decided that wasn't enough.

-Oh man,this one pisses me off the most so i am gonna have to break it down

So back in the late 80s and 90s there was this anime called Saint Seiya also knows as Knights of the zodiac,it tells the story of knights who fight for the Goddess Athena to protect earth,being divided in the golden,silver and bronze knights,the anime was a huge hit in latin america and Europe and while it floped in the US it still has a loyal fanbase.

Being a fan myself i can't recommend it enough,now granted the story does have a fair share of flaws,and that's because the author was honestly just making stuff up as he went along(also a lot of side characters are poorly used or even forgotten about)still it is a great story you should check out

But then a couple of years back Netflix got the rights and decided to a 3D reboot,in this reboot they decided to make the story more "american" to try to bring more american viewers,now i could go on and on a big rant about how that was a bad idea and the execution was so terrible that it made me want to strangle someone but this post is about one specific change.

So Saint Seiya has five main characters,those are Pegasus Seiya,Dragon Shiryu,Cygnus Hyoga,Phoenix Ikki and finally Andromeda Shun.

While the other four characters were the standard masculine and brute male characters who were always ready to throw punches,Shun was smaller,more sensitive and even feminine looking,a pacifist who didn't liked fighting,but don't mistake that for weakness because Shun was loyal to his friends and was extremely powerful.

Then Netflix decided to change Shun into a girl named Shaun.

So wait,you have a male character who goes against every male stereotype and you turn him into just another generic female character?

When asked about it,the showrunner Eugene Son said he made that change because there was no girl in the group and having a all boys group wouldn't be acceptable nowadays

First off that's not true because Athena was also part of the main cast,yeah she wasn't the fighting type but she still helped quite a lot in the story even saving the knights on several occasions,second if you wanted to add a girl to the main group why not use Marin or Shaina?Hell,if you were going to change the story anyway why not turn Seiya sister into a knight?

Thankfully this monstrosity was cancelled(so much for trying to bring more fans)

[u/Friendstastegood]

Is he gay in the show? I remember him being shown with female background characters but it was years ago and i only watched the first two seasons.

[u/Ok-Cup9476 → u/Friendstastegood]

In later seasons, he began a relationship with Prince Radovid. Who in the books is a literal 10 year old boy, and in the games is well known for burning witches alive.

At a certain point the writers were just rage baiting.

[u/warrioroftron → u/Ok-Cup9476]

The writers made me root for Leo Bonhart of all people( Sharlto Copley can eat any role)

[u/boarbar → u/warrioroftron]

Fuck The Rats. Got what they deserved.

[u/Sufficient_Drama_145 → u/Ok-Cup9476]

Welp, sure glad I stopped watching after season two.

[u/AlthorsMadness → u/Ok-Cup9476]

One instance of starting a relationship doesn’t suddenly make the character gay. Queer sure but gay, no

[u/LuckyLewd → u/AlthorsMadness]

"A man can paint a thousand painting and still not be an artist but, God forbid, if he suck one dick..."

[u/Haunting_G5159 → u/Ok-Cup9476]

Thats fucking hilarious

[u/Secuter → u/Ok-Cup9476]

I kinda feel like they were from beginning. Vesemir trying to make Siri a Witcher despite knowing that it would kill her. Weird. 

Anyway the writers openly loathed the source material so it's no wonder that they made a mess of it. I don't know why some writers come to have the hubris that they can somehow take something, change all parts of it, and think they'll make it better.

[u/Ok-Transition7065 → u/Ok-Cup9476]

in later seasons.... welll that explains thigns xd

[u/IndusNoir → u/Friendstastegood]

He is bi in the show, he's still very much a womanizer just also occasionally a.. manizer?

[u/SgtWilko1979 → u/Friendstastegood]

He's bi in the show, I don't know why they made the change, but in later seasons he had a relationship with a man but most often was seen with many different women. I'm not saying this about the OP on this comment but too many people comment about that show based on what they've heard from YT grifters and not from having actually watched the show. Dandelion in the books was always flamboyant so I would never have been surprised if it was bi, but it was never in the books and his relationship in the show is definitely not in the books.

I like the show but I 100% understand why many others don't it changes a LOT from the books.

[u/Ok-Cup9476 → u/SgtWilko1979]

“He was always flamboyant so I wouldn’t be surprised if he was bi.”

That’s the exact mentality that I dislike about the characterization. Anyone male who is flamboyant is secretly gay deep down.

In a current culture where alpha males are on the rise, heaven forbid we show a straight man who is strong through emotion and bravery to be himself.

[u/Friendstastegood → u/Ok-Cup9476]

Yeah I don't disagree that it sucks any time they take a masculine woman or feminine man and go "well they're gnc (to our standards today) so that means they much be gay". I was just wondering if I was imagining him being into women in the show.

[u/wvj → u/Friendstastegood]

You're kinda not wrong.

It basically changes over time, so rather than him consistently being a bi character, he's presented as a straight womanizer in the first season, doesn't have much to do in the 2nd season that most people probably try their best not to remember, and then falls head over heels for Fantasy Hitler (lol) the second he shows up, which is apparently the first ep of season 3. From there on you don't really see him show any interest in women.

It obviously comes from a change in the writing, rather than it being a prior thing that was established.

It'll be interesting to see if they let him go back to being with women in the next one since it should include his arguably most prominent affair w/ Anarietta.

[u/SgtWilko1979 → u/Ok-Cup9476]

I don't disagree, an old friend of mine was very straight but 100% did not "present" as such also had a great deal of confidence (in a positive way). I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise, just that if in the books he'd turned out bi I would not have been shocked. I certainly never said he was gay and the show haven't made him gay.

[u/Bloodyjorts → u/Friendstastegood]

He's bisexual in the show.

The funniest thing is that all the main characters treat Jaskier like shit for the first two seasons, but in S3, when he suddenly gets a male love interest, everyone is nice to him and values his company and treats him like family. Did they just not want to have the main cast look like they're bullying the queer theater kid?

To be fair, a Dandelion/Jaskier that is an equal opportunity player could work....just not how the show did it (but they couldn't do anything right; how they treated Yenn/Geralt was dismal). Rewriting Radovid into a foppish-but-bland adult love interest for Jaskier? Why? Why? Radovid is barely even relevant to the plot in the show, IIRC.

If the Witcher writers had any backbone, they would have gone whole hog with it, and written a love triangle with Yenn, Geralt, and Jaskier. Go big or go home, I'm not giving them points for the lamest attempt at representation. "Oh we'll make an artsy supporting character gay eventually in the dumbest possible crackship we can think of. Look how brave we are!" NO.

[u/Miserable-Let3212 → u/Friendstastegood]

The less we talk about The Witcher series and how they absolutely butchered the story (both books and videogames), the better...