(Hated Trope) "Kind" slave owners

[u/KusanagiGundam]

Speaking as an American who has studied the civil war all throughout my school years, this trope infuriates me to no end. There is no such thing as a kind slave master because slavery itself is cruel and inhumane. PEOPLE ARE NOT PROPERTY!

Naofumi (Shield Hero): Prime example of this trope. He enslaves multiple (underage) girls and an whole village and the fans still say he's a hero.

Rudeus (Jobless Reincarnation): As if being a pedo wasn't bad enough he had to buy a slave in season 2. Worse is that people still defend his actions.

Song of The South (Disney): Possibly the OG example of this trope. And the reason why Disney will never release it again.

[u/Special_Salt3467]

The thing with Shield Hero is it works early on because it’s not treated as necessarily a good thing. He’d been morally wronged and the only “companion” he can trust is a slave. It is quite dark, but there is a pragmatic truth to it.

… then the manga/anime basically tells you that “smactually, the slave contract is a good a thing and it’s actually the objectively moral thing and that the slaves actually want it.”

[u/Aidenj23 → u/Special_Salt3467]

Yeah, like buying the slave in the first place was fucked up and treated as such. But it was more or less necessary for the survival of a lot of people. It's when the slave girl WANTED THE SLAVE CREST BACK that things went from fucked in the story to fucked out of the story. If they had just ditched the slave contract stuff after the first time she lost the crest then I think it would've been ok.

[u/wirebear → u/Aidenj23]

Did they change it in the anime? In the Manga she doesn't "want" it back. She acknowledged that Naofumi can't trust her without it.

In that scene he has a mental breakdown and you could see that he automatically assumed she was hostile without the crest.

He even asks her after if she's sure and she pouts at him basically comments that if he was giving her a choice why wait till after the crest was reinstated. So it's pretty well represented that she didn't really like it but she knew how flawed Naofumi was. And that's the truth of it. The entire need is due to his trauma and flaws.

This is pretty viserally shown in the manga as a major flaw of his where he is near hallucinating when her crest is removed that she is against him. Not sure how the anime presented it.

Later they do make it weird where there were system benefits to the slave crest. I didn't read much past that. But that also fit a bit in how the manga showed the magic system was weird and didn't seem to follow a single set of rules as everyone's"expectations" on growing stronger seemed to work.

But that means someone viewed slave crest magic as a method of gaining power which is all kinds of weird.

I have a lot of issues with the shield hero story. But the fact the slave crests are mostly due to Naofumi's trust issues always felt very well displayed in the manga.

[u/Aidenj23 → u/wirebear]

Yeah no in the anime he's far more indifferent or displeased with the whole slave idea, but he goes along with it. At first he does so because it's the only way he can start making progress, but then it's just because his party members ask for him to enslave them and he doesn't see a reason to argue. It never seems (to me) to be a manifestation of trust issues. In the anime she gets the crest back because she wants it. I can't remember the exact reason why. Maybe just the connection it represents. But it gets turned into a weird sexual scene where she gets the crest across her upper chest/breasts and behaves suggestively towards Naofumi. It's a weird part of the plot that felt incredibly unnecessary and icky. Right up there with her being a kid that magically becomes an adult when she hits an xp threshold.

[u/DurgoStrkr → u/Aidenj23]

Didn't watch much past the first season because the novelty of the show wore off for me but I defo remember a thing about the shield hero not being able to trust raphtalia after the crest was taken off. Like the guy mentioned he did have a bit of a mental breakdown and was mistrustful when she said she trusts him, added best clip I could find.

Reaction after crest was taken off

I didn't remember the re-applying the crest scene that well but it does seem like she says she wants it in the anime (didn't read the Manga so not too sure of the differences) even tho shield hero says she didn't have to get it again

Re-applying seal

[u/Aidenj23 → u/DurgoStrkr]

Might be differences between the sub and dub. I remember him being distrustful of everyone, including her, since he'd been treated pretty poorly by most present up till that point. But I feel like they sorted that distrust out by talking. I don't remember the slave crest being necessary to overcome that distrust. No sigh of relief or real change of behavior after the crest was reapplied or when the reapplication was offered.

[u/WhereRandomThingsAre → u/Aidenj23]

(Anime) It wasn't the crest, it was the symbolism of asking for it being reapplied. Naofumi was depressed, traumatized, paranoid and in the wake of being cheated (again) with society turning on him (again) about to descend into a pit of despair (and likely madness). Raphtalia's actions showed him "everyone else may be turning their back on you, but I'll still be here... see, the system even confirms it, we're together."

Is it good? No. But Naofumi getting brought back by the brink of her symbolic action makes sense narratively. Also, the bond conveys XP to Naofumi whom has difficult amassing it personally due to a lack of a 'proper' weapon (later shields would make up for it). Eventually the crest would be less a symbol of unity and more of a crutch... I had to google it, and apparently it is removed (though not by choice, which is vexing -- one or both characters should have actively chosen that).

[u/Jaded-Distance_ → u/DurgoStrkr]

I think the dub had a few extra lines than that first clip. Like I remember her also mentioning him feeding her nourishing food everday, anything she wanted, and giving her lifesaving medicine and instead of saying "where's your slave" she says "why not have someone loyal instead of that two faced princess?"

Its actually a pretty good episode. Up to this point he felt alone in the world, food had zero taste, royalty and heroes and the general populace treated him poorly. He doesn't even "see" Raphtalia has evolved until after he's had this break down with her talking him back from the edge. The other two less problematic heroes even remark upon seeing Raphtalia comforting a weeping Naofumi that its not a typical master/slave relationship they're used to.

Though the re-applying was a bit cringe. More so the part after the boob scene, with the Slaver offering to buy Raphtalia for 20 gold, then upping the offer to 35 after finding out she was a virgin. (edit. I see your clip has this part but its cut differently. Like in the dub they apply the crest, then make the gold offer, then talk about the egg lottery. Is that just to get around youtube censors I wonder?)

[u/GL1TCH3D → u/Aidenj23]

It's been a while since I watched it but I remember it being that Naofumi was basically rejected / kicked out by everyone and given barely any money so he couldn't afford to hire people. IIRC it was positioned as a do or die that he gets an ally that can actually attack, and he turns to the slave market. I don't remember him wanting this but the story to this point has positioned it as forcing him. And him picking Raphtalia because she was dirt cheap due to her illness.

In the early training arc, Naofumi would command Raphtalia to do things she was uncomfortable / too scared to do.

When Raphtalia was freed of her slave crest she saw his mental breakdown and she actively asked for it to be reinstated. As a viewer who didn't read the Manga I felt it was pretty clear that she had the utmost trust and faith in Naofumi to do the right thing, and that it was done to soothe him. I also wonder if part of it was her own protest to the trap that they laid out for Naofumi.

IIRC there are later parts of the show where he actively frees slaves / gives them a home where they can be comfortable? The show very much does not promote the idea that slaves are a good thing. It's very much represented as a not so moral industry with shady dealers and buyers. Naofumi is immediately painted as some lecherous freak for buying Raphtalia. It's an interesting thought process to think of how you'd see him if he were a side character of another isekai and the next time you see him he has a slave girl.

Anyway the show got really weird and I just wasn't keeping track of it anymore so I stopped watching.

[u/wirebear → u/Aidenj23]

I'll reread that scene specifically just to confirm. But I'm very positive it's not treated that way in the manga which can explain why people seem to be treating it differently if they watched the anime.

I can't remember her ever acting remotely sexual towards him(though she did get the brand on her cleavage for some reason).

I'm not gonna say the shield hero was a good story but sounds like the anime made it worse.

Edit: when they recrest her I'm pretty sure there is just one panel showing her cleavage than she immediately covers up while complaining that he should ask if she's okay with it after its done.

[u/DahmonGrimwolf → u/wirebear]

IIRC In the show he also violently enslaves the bird girl (before she can transform into a human and all that) and she's litteraly screaming in pain and fighting the whole time.

[u/Skebs_ → u/DahmonGrimwolf]

TBF she is a monster, so...

[u/ReiahlTLI → u/wirebear]

Later into the story, the crest is only used for system benefits, and a gag with the reaction to it depending  on version, as far as I recall. 

It's in the details but I think Naofumi turns off all of the negative aspects of it and only really suggests it to get other characters much stronger. At that point in the story, Naofumi has surrounded himself with people he trusts so it just ends up being that leveling cheat.

The author does a poor job of highlighting the change in attitude though and that gets magnified by adaptation drift, particularly with the anime. 

[u/PeterAnthony_Jackson → u/ReiahlTLI]

Yeah, Raphtalia tells that green haired girl who was in the penguin suit to get a slave crest as it has a stat boost.

That was basically the only bit of lore I got from it other than the initial "because of the false rape accusation, no one would fight with him, he couldn't use a weapon, so he needed someone anyone" and was desperate enough that he got a deaths door child to do his dirty work.

Putting it back was seen as a way to convince him she wasn't going anywhere now she was free of his ownership, but it wasn't really well written.

Death March had a spin on it, he resuced three slaves, an adult lizard woman and a child cat and dog girl. He wanted to free them, they thought he was abandoning them, so he didn't break the contract and in the end it was shown as a good thing, because monster girls are ripe for being picked up as slaves even with a human companion, but if they were already property, they were left alone.

I never watched 12 years a slave, but I read that he gets his freedom and then walking around another city is abducted and sold right back into slavery.

[u/TheKhalDrogo → u/wirebear]

Oh thats much better, I always thought that she got the crest back because naofumi’s trust issues, would be much better. No moral question, just that naofumi is fucked up a little in the head, which was done very nicely in season1

Shield hero anime fell of really hard after season1 anyway but I really rolled my eyes when they justified the slave crest as “good actually”

[u/PeterAnthony_Jackson → u/TheKhalDrogo]

I only watched it after season one as I had invested that time in it, it felt like it was shark jumping or just going off script in places, like the shrine maid outfit just so happens to be the royal outfit of the queen and she was staking a claim, couldn't a guy just indulge in his cosplay fetish without starting a war?

[u/Just-Antelope-8069 → u/Aidenj23]

Made even worse by the girl joining the party having to be his slave to get XP while he shared it earlier with the male soldiers without slavery.

[u/PeterAnthony_Jackson → u/Just-Antelope-8069]

Were they fighting before or after the false accusations of rape where no one would want to work with him even for all the money in the world?

Because that is why he had to use a sick and dying child as his last resort.

[u/Just-Antelope-8069 → u/PeterAnthony_Jackson]

End of season 1 when that was all behind him.

[u/Kapika96 → u/Special_Salt3467]

Is there some kind of magic involved that forces the slave to be blindly loyal or something?

If not, that logic just completely falls apart. You really can't trust somebody that you're forcing to do things against their will and them killing you would be the easiest way for them to get freedom.

[u/LadySandry88 → u/Kapika96]

There is magic that prevents slaves from harming their masters, not necessarily being 'blindly loyal'. This is why Naofumi only trusts his slaves to not betray him--he truly and genuinely believes that no one can be trusted not to betray him without magical compulsions. It's framed as a fucked-up mindset that he gained after being deeply betrayed by his first partner and the people who summoned him to that world in the first place. As has been commented elsewhere, there is a scene where the slave crest is removed from his first slave, and it's used specifically to show other characters that she is NOT simply serving him due to duress, but that she remains loyal without the slave crest and has come to care for him personally.

Which COULD have been a really great way to put him on the path to healing as a person, with her remaining free and loyally at his side, and him slowly finding more and more people who would stand by him because he's actually got good points that they like and respect. But no, the author decided that having anyone who works for him become his slave was better and found excuses to keep doing that, meaning that not ONLY is he perpetuating the institution of slavery, but he can't possibly heal mentally or emotionally from his severe trust issues.

It's just absolute garbage writing.

[u/Special_Salt3467 → u/LadySandry88]

Yeah; pretty much this. When it’s first introduced (at least in the manga), it comes across as a bad thing a desperate person is doing because they can’t trust anyone. And that’s interesting. It’s a moral dilemma. Maybe they grow from it and overcome it. Except, it becomes objectively the “right” answer because of buffs and “trust” and all that junk.

Now, it’s not a moral dilemma nor is it a desperate person doing fucked up things to survive. It’s just the most correct answer because of course you’re gonna take the buffs or whatever.

Protagonists doing bad things isn’t inherently bad. It makes them two dimensional characters and gives them ability to grow. But by removing the negative connotations to their negative actions, it makes it way worse. Because we know what they’re doing is bad. You can’t just say “actually, this is good!”

[u/LadySandry88 → u/Special_Salt3467]

I think it would have been SO much cooler if the whole 'slave crests can grant buffs' thing was still brought up way later on and rejected as an option anyway.

Or, heck, due to Naofumi having healed from his trauma, he realizes that requiring a slave crest for the buffs is stupid and asks one of his allies such as Melty to research a way to make something similar but without the slavery aspect.

Like a 'Hero's Contract' that allows the Hero to share their buffs with their followers but without any compulsion or loyalty clauses. Either side can end it when they choose to. It still has the implications of vassalage, such that he's the one in charge and they follow him, but with a much less fucked up power imbalance and no actual, y'know, owning of people.

[u/BlinkyDesu → u/LadySandry88]

His friends, such as the shop he frequented, trusted him regardless of the slave aspect because they found out he was a good guy. His enemies, the spear hero, still distrusted him, thinking he was mind controlling Raphtalia even without the slave crest. The slave crest did nothing to sway people in either direction.

[u/LadySandry88 → u/BlinkyDesu]

The slave crest's removal and Raphtalia's loyalty convinced the other isekai'd heroes besides Motoyasu. The sword hero even called Motoyasu out on being so fanatically stupid about it.

[u/BlinkyDesu → u/LadySandry88]

It only convinced them that Raphtalia genuinely liked him.

Motoyasu didn't change his mind despite both other heroes pointing out the woman interfered in his duel and he genuinely lost. He was still convinced Naofumi was evil.

That said, both of the other heroes still disliked Naofumi. They still believed he raped Myne. And all this particular incident did was put him back where he was. Everyone was convinced he was evil because he had a slave, despite it being legal in the kingdom. Even the king was trash talking him for simply doing something the king allows in his kingdom. So all the whole incident did was make the two other heroes let go of the fact that he had a slave. Thus, the crest and it's removal did nothing to sway them.

[u/LadySandry88 → u/BlinkyDesu]

I don't see your point?

As has been commented elsewhere, there is a scene where the slave crest is removed from his first slave, and it's used specifically to show other characters that she is NOT simply serving him due to duress, but that she remains loyal without the slave crest and has come to care for him personally.

This is what I claimed, which you yourself have agreed is true. I never said that removing the slave crest convinced them that he was a good person, or improved his relationships with the kingdom. (Motoyasu is actively delusional about his opinions and beliefs, something that is made excessively clear throughout the story. The king is a massive bigoted hypocrite with a hate-on for Naofumi and never cared what was 'true' in the first place, and Myne was blatantly trying to undermine everything he did and wasn't going to change her tune [even when she was later put under spells that forced her to feel pain when she lied, she STILL LIED to her OWN DETRIMENT]).

The point isn't that it would magically fix everything, the point was that removing the slave crest and showing that Raphtalia was personally loyal to him was a perfect opportunity for him to start healing enough to trust other people again--starting with her, and moving on to the shopkeep whom he'd already built a rapport with. The story could have moved in a much better direction without massively changing the plot simply by not having him use slave crests beyond that point, when they're proven to be unnecessary.

[u/BlinkyDesu → u/LadySandry88]

I mean, not everyone heals. No matter what goes right for some people, sometimes they just stay damaged. Considering like the entire country was out to get him after the rumors, I can absolutely see why he'd want the guarantee that the people he had to rely on weren't lying to him. Considering he was accused of rape on his first night, it's not like the anime is meant to be lighthearted. It's realistic.

[u/BlinkyDesu → u/LadySandry88]

I thought about my other comment further. My guess would it wasn't his turnaround point because he likely only gave in in that moment from the physical/emotional exhaustion of the day. That's why he caved to Raphtalia, trusting her in that moment. But once he rests and starts thinking again, everything in his head would be "What if?"

Because prior to that moment with the crest coming off, he was betrayed at the party, where they threatened to take Raphtalia away unless he played along, and the entire party/royal family/other heroes stood against him. Then he had the duel, where he let Motoyasu go because everyone was bad mouthing him, and then he was shot in the back. Despite literally EVERY single person in the arena seeing what happened, and BOTH heroes pointing it out, they still took Raphtalia away as if he lost, and removed the crest.

Her coming back was something he caved to at the moment. And her wanting the crest back was literally to keep those dark thoughts away, at least when it came to her. But he couldn't just suddenly start trusting when literally everyone at the party and duel was betraying him except for Raphtalia, and he didn't start imagining her betraying him until the crest came off.

But if he was just suddenly going to start mentally healing, they'd have to also get rid of him seeing her as her younger self even after she grew up. That was also a mental process for him, to show that he was damaged.

[u/HakutoKunai → u/Kapika96]

Magical slave crests yeah even random people later on becomes Naofumi's slave just because it gives stat boost because he's the shield hero

[u/Kapika96 → u/HakutoKunai]

Ah, so they even buffed slavery for the show.

That makes it even worse!

[u/GladiusNocturno → u/Kapika96]

Yeah. Basically the protagonists forces everyone who wants to join his party to become his slave because that’s the only way he can trust others and because the magic system rewards having slaves with stat buffs. He does this even to a child who early in the show was found in a dungeon being starved by her slave owner.

In all honesty, this could have worked if it had been done the other way around. Have him force others to become his slaves because of his trust issues, but make it so the game mechanics actually debuffs his slaves. This way, his whole party is actually weaker because he cannot trust them and is forcing them into slavery. Make this a character flaw that he has to overcome.

But no! The stupid story actually rewards him for enslaving his friends. His main girl is heavily traumatized because slavers killed her parents and abducted her to sell her into slavery, but fuck her I guess!

[u/HakutoKunai → u/GladiusNocturno]

Who are you talking about?

[u/GladiusNocturno → u/HakutoKunai]

I talked about multiple characters.

The character that they found starved almost to death by a slave owner is Keel, Raphtalia’s childhood friend.

He was kidnapped like Raphtalia, but was sold to a rich lord who almost killed him. He was found traumatized and almost dead because of his experience as a child slave.

Next time he shows up, Naofumi enslaves the traumatized child slave, which for some stupid reason makes him stronger.

That’s where it’s revealed that he is actually a she. It’s not even a trans thing, Keel was straight up retconned to be a girl because Naofumi’s party has to be a harem, because of fucking course.

[u/Hayden_Jay → u/Kapika96]

I ain't defending that creepy ass show, but it's not exactly a new concept in magical slavery. It being portrayed as a positive is a whole other thing though

[u/firegamer2432 → u/Kapika96]

I feel like I need to mention how the slave crests aren't like magical mind control to enforce loyalty or anything, they're effectively just magic shock collars that activate when disobeyed (:

I don't know which would be worse

[u/DryadKnotwood → u/firegamer2432]

A magic shock collar is an apt comparison for sure. Considering that Sadeena just straight up tanks the pain and proceeds to beat up her "master"

[u/AlternativePride5100 → u/Kapika96]

The Crest doesnt make you Like or mindlesly obey the máster, instead It gives an electric shock when the slave disobeys the master, But Only of the máster gives a direct order, one of the exámples of this Is that when filo(a chocobo-like creature that can transforma into a child) Is hidden in a mansión because a friend of Herstold her to "play" hide and seek AND that she couldnt come out no matter what, later Naofumi Is searching her and calls her múltiple times AND the Crest doesnt do anything until Naofumi Orders her to come out, Only then the Slave Crest Electrocute her, also Naofumi has an abilitie that allows His "slaves" to grow rather fast and in some cases in ways they normally wouldnt (Like Filo who became a Queen Filolial thanks to It if im not wrong) kinda Like a skill a Beast Tamer would have to boost the XP gained by His Beasts being this the reason Naofumi marked a whole Village as His (and if im not wrong to give them political protection to the Village AND avoid a tragedy that once happend in the past that made Raptalia an Slave)

[u/Spirited_Dust_3642 → u/Special_Salt3467]

Basically, the shield hero buys a slave because no one wanted to be his partner. So he buys a very cheap one. But in the light novel, he clearly takes pleasure in it because he's misogynistic. But then people just forget about this whole plot and the author refuses to explain it. And as if that weren't enough, the slave still sees this as a mark of his trust in her, and objectively this is exactly the opposite. And then he discovers that, in fact, the slave seal has objective advantages, because it makes slaves evolve faster than normal members. So he simply enslaves all the members of his group, even if only one of them objectively likes it, which is very wrong. At the end of the day, I'm just using it objectively many times to show that, even if you rationalize the subject to the maximum, it still remains indefensible.

[u/wirebear → u/Spirited_Dust_3642]

Sounds like they may have shifted angles a bit in each version. In the Manga it felt like they hard pushed that he was using the crest like a guarantee more than wanting slaves. Mostly noted by him never really using his control over them. And how he hallucinated when they removed the crest from Ralph.

It might be how long ago it's been since I read it. But up until the "objective benefits to using it" which was fairly deep into the story that I remember, it was fairly represented that Naofumi wasn't necessarily cruel but just massively flawed.

I did stop reading at the "let's enslave everyone" part. As that just got weird.

Based on how the people here talk, sounds like the light novel and anime are a little different.

[u/ZoidsFanatic → u/Special_Salt3467]

It becomes Pokemon basically. But with slaves. 

“Oh no, it’s a demon lord! Quick, send out the attack raccoon! Quick! Swap out the attack raccoon for the attack chicken!”

[u/Gespens → u/Special_Salt3467]

Naofumi also in the novels specifically wanted to buy a girl to feel power over someone who couldn't fight back

[u/TerribleBudget → u/Special_Salt3467]

The weirdly pro-slavery anime fans will defend the use of normalized slavery in anime saying that normalizing slavery in media isn't a bad thing:

well it doesn't normalize slavery any more than it normalizes killing people with swords. Doing business with Saudi Arabia normalizes slavery. Buying products made with slave labor normalizes slavery.

Like...what the fuck man? Making slavery seem beneficial in media is damn near the definition of normalizing it.

That freak got actual upvotes for defending the depiction of the slave owner of the main character in shield hero as not having a negative impact on the real world. Like in what fucking world is portraying a slave wanting to be the main heroe's slave not a negative thing in media aimed at teenagers?

[u/Jihelu → u/TerribleBudget]

The thing about the normalization of something is, you can also use that normalization to make a point, but it doesn’t make a point it’s just there.

Like I know several works that work better because of the normalization of violence and murder, you grow numb to it in a way that I think helps the story.

This is just some guys fetish

[u/Busy_Hat9554 → u/Special_Salt3467]

And it really stinks too, because aside from that extremely stupid aspect, I actually found the show to be pretty decent. (I only watched Season 1.)

[u/ArcadianBlueRogue → u/Special_Salt3467]

Yeah, the start was fun where you wanna see him get back at the other heroes and shit.

Then it turns into slave harem and I just couldn't do it

[u/unfrotunatepanda → u/Special_Salt3467]

I really wish at the point things start going good for Shield Hero he could've unlocked a "War Banner/Battle Standard" shield or something that gave all the same stat boosts the slave shield did but only for truly loyal subordinates (and like it gives him a menu that shows who has the buff so he knew who he could trust). That way he could keep his trust issues without having to justify the practice of owning people at every opportunity (I think I recall one of the excuses the series gave was something along the lines of "Well the people of the village I'm now in charge of got enslaved once before so I guess I gotta put the marks on them first before someone evil tries to do it")

[u/DiksieNormus → u/Special_Salt3467]

Thank you EXP BOOST for justifying my slave fantasies! - the author

[u/h0nest_Bender → u/Special_Salt3467]

and that the slaves actually want it.

I mean, his slave does literally want it. She was freed from her slave magic macguffin and begged to have it re-applied.