Sauron, all the Istari, and all the Balrogs are Maiar, supposedly cut from the same lesser Ainur. So while they should all have or develop different talents, some things about them should be the same. Such as the ability to regenerate.

Sauron was a master shapeshifter, as his battle with Huan showed. Didn't do him much good, but still it showed the ability to move between shapes in an instant. Later he presents himself as sweet, sweet Anatar. Then he gets killed in the downfall of Numenor, and again at the end of the second age. He has a problem assuming a fair seeming shape again, and it appears he's stuck with 9 fingers instead of 10. But regenerate he does.

Gandalf shows the ability to regenerate, possibly with the help of Eru or the Valar. Saruman should be able to regenerate, if only the Valar will let him.

But what about the Balrogs? Except for Bane, Durin's Bane, all of them died at the end of the First Age. Yes, the Silmarilion makes it sound like a plurality of Balrogs escaped the destruction and hit themselves in the Earth, like Bane did. But none ever showed. Some we know absolutely died. Yet none of them return. Why do you suppose that is? Are they content to live as disembodied spirits yet again? Did they join Melkor in the Void, just to keep him company? Did they regenerate, then immediately hide themselves in the Earth, so the Valar don't chop them again?

As always, great thoughts welcomed.

Of the seven houses of the dwarves, who was present for the War of the Dwarves and Orcs in third age?

Was there ever a time when all seven houses had established communication with each other?

When Gandalf gave bill the pony a guiding blessing was that a spell of protection?

Well, most part of the book is fun to read out loud. Even the spider isn't that scary at all...Shelob is just evil. But..we just finished the battle at the pelannor fields. When eomer goes berserk, even my 7 year old was in tears and hyped like a little Pikachu.

I have to confess, even I had difficulty to keep reading it, there is a lot of emotions going on in that chapter. Reading it out loud makes it even more...vibrant.. damn..one of the best chapters I have ever read out loud.

Also...I know the movie had to make choices...but seeing eomer evolve in the book, is just magical and beautiful. It. Would have worked in the movie but then they had to add 30 minutes. Bring in prince imrahil..would love too see him shine with those swan wings...kinda like the polish hussars.

So it's established in The Shadow of the Past that Gandalf believed that Bilbo's ring was one of the Great Rings. It's also stated that Great Rings are Rings of Power:

But the Great Rings, the Rings of Power, they were perilous.

That means there is a limited number of options of what rings Bilbo could have had.

I'm sure Gandalf would have automatically ruled out the Three, as they were all accounted for.

So he must have thought it was either one of the Nine or the Seven.

Did he know the Nine remained with the Nazgul? Or was that something he learnt during his studies after A Long Expected Party?

I assume the fate of the Seven was certainly something he learnt during that period, it seems more likely they'd be lost than rings that belonged to the Nazgul.

So basically I'm just wondering what Gandalf would have suspected. Is the only think we can take for granted is that he wouldn't have known it was one of the Three?

Edit: To be clear, as a lot of people are saying this, Gandalf says he knew straight away it was a Great Ring, not a lesser ring:

I wondered often how Gollum came by a Great Ring, as plainly it was – that at least was clear from the first. Then I heard Bilbo’s strange story of how he had ‘‘won’’ it, and I could not believe it.

To this Bereg answered: 'Let the Eldar look to it! Our lives are short enough.' But there arose one who seemed to all to be Amlach son of Imlach, speaking fell words that shook the hearts of all who heard him: 'All this is but Elvish lore, tales to beguile newcomers that are unwary. The Sea has no shore. There is no Light in the West. You have followed a fool-fire of the Elves to the end of the world! Which of you has seen the least of the Gods? Who has beheld the Dark King in the North? Those who seek the dominion of Middle-earth are the Eldar. Greedy for wealth they have delved in the earth for its secrets and have stirred to wrath the things that dwell beneath it, as they have ever done and ever shall. Let the Orcs have the realm that is theirs, and we will have ours. There is room in the world, if the Eldar will let us be!'
Then those that listened sat for a while astounded, and a shadow of fear fell on their hearts; and they resolved to depart far from the lands of the Eldar. But afterwards Amlach returned among them, and denied that he had been present at their debate or had spoken such words as they reported; and there was doubt and bewilderment among Men. Then the Elf-friends said: 'You will now believe this at least: there is indeed a Dark Lord, and his spies and emissaries are among us; for he fears us, and the strength that we may give to his foes.'

Are there any lore info about this? This weird event never been mentioned later in the Silmarillion but it is very intriguing, because it is the core event that divided humans into different tribes. A sharp-tonged shapeshifter emissary that daring and sinister enough to insult Valar and Morgoth at the same time for dividing humans, it awfully sounds like a Sauron-thing.

I'm certain I read somewhere that Sauron chose Dol Guldur as his sanctuary because it was near to where the Ring was lost by Isildur. I can't remember where I read this - I think it might have potentially been a Nerd of the Rings video.

However, in The Shadow of the Past, Gandalf says:

‘And this is the dreadful chance, Frodo. He believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done. But he knows now that it has not perished, that it has been found. So he is seeking it, seeking it, and all his thought is bent on it. It is his great hope and our great fear.’

If I'm correct in understanding, Sauron learnt the Ring still existed after capturing and torturing Gollum, which was of course after he fled Dol Guldur.

Which would mean that when he chose Dol Guldur as his stronghold, he still thought the Ring was destroyed.

So my questions are, 1) is the idea that he chose Dol Guldur as his stronghold to search for the ring nearby complete hogwash, and clearly whatever I watched/read is rubbish? and 2) Is the fact that Sauron chose a sanctuary so close to where the Ring was lost just mere chance?

Fail to destroy the One Ring, that is, by throwing it into the Cracks of Doom. Failure implies that a person could have succeeded. But it's established quite clearly that no one bearing the One Ring could willingly harm it. Frodo even failed to throw it into the fireplace at Bag End:

When he took it out he had intended to fling it from him into the very hottest part of the fire. But he found now that he could not do so, not without a great struggle. He weighed the Ring in his hand, hesitating, and forcing himself to remember all that Gandalf had told him; and then with an effort of will he made a movement, as if to cast it away - but he found that he had put it back in his pocket. Gandalf laughed grimly. "You see? Already you too, Frodo, cannot easily let it go, nor will to damage it. [...] A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. It may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it."

It became at last quite clear that Frodo after all that had happened would be incapable of voluntarily destroying the Ring. [...] Frodo indeed ‘failed’ as a hero, as conceived by simple minds: he did not endure to the end; he gave in, ratted.

The last quote is from the Letter 246.

This makes me wonder if Gandalf knew all along that Frodo won't be able to throw the Ring into the fires of Mt Doom himself, and would require "assistance". Hence his words concerning Gollum playing some role, for the better or worse.

Same goes for Isildur. Everyone remembers him as the King who failed at Mt Doom and kept the Ring instead of destroying it. But there was no other option, unless someone else (like Elrond) intervened violently.

Are there any quotes that made a significant impression on your mind?

Yavanna created the two trees yet she couldn't create another set when they were destroyed by Melkor.

It boggles the mind to think that the king of Numenor would place his trust on Sauron, who by the way called himself the King of Men.

hello everyone! ive read the hobbit and lotr but trying to finally branch out and get deep into the history. definitley will get to reading the 12 books of the history of middle earth and the silmarillion as well as the other novels. my caveat is that i learn best in a college curriculum sort of set up where the information is slow and spread out over time (medieval history major in college so im very well tuned to that manner of learning) does anyone have any knowledge of online syllabuses or courses on history of middle earth? any advice is welcome! thank you!!

Tolkien used his life experience to give meaning to his book? He fought in world war 1. So why did Tolkien use gold to establish Morgoth's hold?

My partner of thirteen years and wife of thirteen days passed away last week. I cannot begin to express the grief and hopelessness I have felt in the intervening days; despite having family and friends close by, nothing has given me any real comfort or peace.

But throughout her battle with cancer, and particularly over the final few weeks my mind has returned constantly to Tolkien's work.

We were both huge LOTR fans, we made it an annual (minimum) tradition to watch the extended movies. We last watched them this summer after she had been diagnosed. Like I'm sure everyone else here, I have always loved and admired Sam and the strength of his character, but watching in this new context I felt a totally new understanding and empathy for him. My wife was my Frodo, I promised I would follow her through whatever fire and hell she would go through and I kept my promise. And I kept Sam in mind through it all. When the scene came where Frodo is lying, seemingly lifeless, in Shelob's lair and Sam begs him "Don't go where I can't follow", I felt like I could hardly breath. We did both manage to make it to the end of the trilogy; until the fellowship is finally broken at the Grey Havens and my wife burst into tears. We were both feeling the same fear, that one day we too may have to part. I held her tight as Into the West played in the background. This was the first moment of true catharsis we had had together since she was diagnosed.

Her treatment continued for most of this year. In the moments she was well, we would talk about our future plans. One we looked forward to most was going to New Zealand, visiting the Shire and hiking the hills and mountains where we could pretend we were in Middle Earth.

But that wasn't to be. In mid September a PET scan revealed that her final round of chemo had also failed, and the doctor informed us that she would die within weeks. My world fell into utter shadow on that day, I hadn't cried for twenty years before that but it felt like all the tears I should have shed in that time came bursting out of me, she was going where I couldn't follow.

The next day I asked her to marry me. The nurses were amazing, they arranged a wedding in two days that was indistinguishable from one that had been in planning for two hundred! She wore a set of earrings which had on them the device of Lúthien Tinúviel. I had bought her them for valentines day this year and being the bigger nerd of the two of us I told her the story of Beren and Lúthien, and that she was my Lúthien. She read the story often after that, and wore the earrings constantly.

She entered our wedding to Evenstar and looked every bit as beautiful as Arwen. We had our first married kiss to Aniron and I couldn't keep the tears back. I was the happiest and yet most heartbroken I had ever been. Afterwards the nurse came to her room and, knowing we were big old nerds, thought we would like to know that we had coincidentally got married on Hobbit day, the 22nd of September, the day of Bilbo and Frodo's birthdays.

She came home the next day and I kept my promise to her. I kept watch over her day and night for nearly two weeks, catching sleeps of a half hour at a time whenever I could. And then she left me. There was no poetry there, no metaphor, nothing in Tolkien or any other work of fiction that could ever accurately describe the absolute desolation of losing the person who made your world green and beautiful.

I'm planning her funeral now, I feel such a huge weight to do her justice, which obviously I could never really do. But I have made sure our shared love of Tolkien's work is well represented. She will be laid to rest to Into the West, as played by the Prague Philharmonic Orchestra, and I will read a quote that represents the hope she made me promise to hold on to.

"Far above the Ephel Dúath in the West the night-sky was still dim and pale. There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

Her passing is a dark thing, and it is right that it brings sorrow and pain beyond description. But such darkness cannot be allowed to obscure the light and high beauty that was my wife's life.

I am glad I have Tolkien's words in my life. This is an unbearable pain to carry, but through his world and the characters that inhabit it, I have found a way to express and understand my feelings better than I otherwise could.

In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!

The personal is political, some say. Here we have Galadriel going from the political ('queen') to the narcissistically personal ('all shall love me and despair').

So what would 'all shall love me and despair' have meant politically?

First, who would 'all' have meant? The Dominion of Men approached and the elves were leaving Middle Earth. So I guess 'all' , the subjects of that queen, would have meant 'Men'.

'Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt', says Gandalf. Well that's mortality if you are a man and love an immortal like Galadriel. Mortal love and mortality -'end beyond all doubt'- will become one thing and the same as the years pass. One will never cease to love her and will never cease to reach for her. But life, beyond all doubt, will cease.

So I suppose Queen Galadriel's policies would have subjected Mortal Men to quests -men doing her bidding, enacting her policies, out of love-, quests that would have resulted in great deeds; Round Table sorts of quests, land-healing sorts of quests, like that of the Holy Grail: but the Beloved, Queen Galadriel, would have remained an ever-receeding horizon, and ultimately indistinguishable from death itself.

Now Tolkien was familiar with Arthurian romance. He knew, for example, that Morgan Le Fay had orchestrated everything in Sir Gawain, 'off screen' as it were; and he knew Spenser's The Faerie Queene: there, the Queen (an immortal) is loved by King Arthur, who looks for her.

In LOTR we're told Elendil and Aragorn looked a lot like each other. The Return Of The King is an arthurian title. The Once (Elendil) and Future (Aragorn) King. No to mention Andúril, Elendil/Aeagorn's 'Excalibur'.

Faramir calls Galadriel 'mistress of magic'. That's the name of Mists Of Avalon's First Book. Morgan Le Fay (=the fairy) was of course that 'mistress of magic'. Was Marion Zimmer onto something? If Galadriel=unreachable horizon then:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_(mirage)

Morgan(a) means 'sea-born', and in LOTR we can see how water is Galadriel's element and a crucial part of her magic.

In William Morris, whose writings Tolkien knew well, Morgan Le Fay is the Queen of Avalon. The Elven Queen of Aman, in tolkienian terms. Not so far from Sauron's original idea of healing Middle-Earth and turning it into a second Valinor - with himself as the Lord of course.

All the mortal enterprises would have tended towards her, the Beloved Queen Galadriel...and yet the roads would have remained bent. She would have become, relative to Men, what Aman had already become relative to Middle Earth and to mortal Men. No Straight Road to Her throne. Just the undying love of those who die in their bent paths, the paths of the Sun and the Round Earth.

In Rivendell there was memory of ancient things; in Lórien the ancient things still lived on in the waking world. Evil had been seen and heard there, sorrow had been known; the Elves feared and distrusted the world outside: wolves were howling on the wood’s borders: but on the land of Lórien no shadow lay.

Compare:

One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

In Mordor shadows lie...and lie: a pun. Treacherous shadows.

In Lórien no shadows lay. Tolkien avoids 'lied'. There the shadows are not treacherous. But of course we can also say: they did not lie. They didn't even exist.

You need the Sun for shadows to exist. But:

‘You passed through the Hidden Land,’ said Faramir, ‘but it seems that you little understood its power. If Men have dealings with the Mistress of Magic who dwells in the Golden Wood, then they may look for strange things to follow. For it is perilous for mortal man to walk out of the world of this Sun, and few of old came thence unchanged, ’tis said.

There's in fact a shadow in Lórien. It has nothing to do with the Sun:

I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!’

She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands towards the East in a gesture of rejection and denial. Eärendil, the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground. Its rays glanced upon a ring about her finger; it glittered like polished gold overlaid with silver light, and a white stone in it twinkled as if the Even-star had come down to rest upon her hand. Frodo gazed at the ring with awe; for suddenly it seemed to him that he understood.

It always stuck out to me that when Maedhros and Maglor (p 304 in my version) steal the Silmarils from the camp of Eönwë that they "slew the guards". It is a bit of a throwaway line but it does suggest that they probably have to slit a few throats while they were launching their stealthy raid, and these two are so used to killing elves that this is hardly remarkable anymore.

It is pretty unfortunate for those guards they survived the entire war of wrath just to be killed at the end! But more interestingly, we learned earlier in "Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath" that the Vanyar were part of the host of the Valar. It is not specified, and we know Noldor were also in the host, but because of the close relationship with the Vanyar and the Valar, it might be that the Vanyar would be the trusted guards for this type of task. If that is the case, then I think this would be the first (and last) slaying of Vanyar elves by the sons of Fëanor. In the text, not much is made of the killing of the guards, and killing a few guards does pale in comparison to the other three kinslayings, but it does still stand out as potentially the first and last time this happens to the Vanyar.

When Aragorn is eavesdropping on the hobbits' conversation with Bombadil, why doesn't he reveal himself at a suitably unthreatening distance and ask Tom to give him a good reference? Of course Tolkien wanted to write the scene where Aragorn convinces the hobbits on his own to accept him. But is there any reason in the story for Aragorn not to do that in Tom's presence? Aragorn recognizes Tom and refers to him later as "old Bombadil", suggesting some familiarity, and Tom shows the hobbits a vision of Aragorn (though maybe too vague, brief, or out-of-date for them to recognize him the next later that day). Is it possible that Tom wouldn't vouch for Aragorn or even that he wouldn't recognize him?

Subsidiary question: Does Tom know Aragorn is hiding there? (If so, I assume he doesn't mention it because he thinks Aragorn must have a reason for hiding.) Since they're right at Tom's border, does your answer depend on which side of the border Aragorn is on?

Sauron was an artificer, a shapeshifter, a deceiver and strategist. When in came to close combat he preferred to retreat. He loses to Luthien and Huan, Ar Pharazon, Gil Galad and Elendil.

Does that mean Sauron was not really strong in physical might?

Who was he and what did he want?

Morgoth and Sauron both found themselves diminished over time as they had spent so much of their power marring Arda and forging the One Ring. Yavanna infused the Trees with great power, would it have diminished her? Was their destruction comparable to the destruction of the Ring?

Yesterday my wife is digging through a closet, looking to get rid of old junk. She finds this class picture from my 7th grade class. In the center of all the smiling student pictures were the pics of all the teachers of that grade, including the teacher who introduced me to The Hobbit.

She had to give the English class a reading assignment, so she picked a book she loved, The Hobbit. And let me tell you, the kids in class, or at least the ones who were vocal, hated it. They thought it silly, childish, beneath them. I loved it. One day she asks some of the students to read passages of the book from when Thorin and Co end up in Rivendell. Sadly, she picked the toughest, and apparently dumbest kid in class to read. Bilbo said "Hmmm! it smells like elves!", and the kid read it as "Hmmm, uh smells like, uh, eats." And the class laughs, and I wanted to belt him.

A few days later, I'm passing the teacher in the hallway and she asks how I like The Hobbit. I tell her I really like it, and we spend a few minutes talking about it. I could tell, she was happy that she had at least one student who appreciated Tolkien's work.

In high school I read Lord of the Rings, and get my best buddy interested in it as well. First year out of high school and I'm reading The Silmarillion. At that time if I wandered into a bookstore, you could be sure that I would stop in the Fantasy section to see if there was anything new in the Tolkien section. I found The Complete Guide to Middle-earth there. Note: The complete guide, as I purchased in in 1981, was not all that complete.

8 years ago I thought of that teacher, and did a search to find her. Too late, she'd died of cancer a few years before, which breaks my heart. I wanted to tell her much that reading assignment had changed my world. I imagine the conversation would have been pretty deep.

You're not good enough

You don't belong here

This just isn't for you

The way is shut. It was made by those who are Dead, and the Dead keep it

Aragorn's journey brings him to The Paths of the Dead, the only way through the mountains that will take him where he needs to be before all is lost

And before that path is a Door, that does not open to the living. We've all been told we can't do something, that we don't belong somewhere. But there's just one problem: I deem that the City will be lost ere ten days be gone - Aragorn has to go through that Door

He has seen it, in the Stone of Orthanc. The city is overwhelmed, Theoden has mustered less than half he had hoped for, only a tithe of Gondor's strength even made it to the city, the Black Fleet extracting it's toll

His only hope borders on insanity, to vanquish the Black Fleet, fill the boats of his enemy with his own men, and sail to the city himself I have no help to send, therefore I must go myself. But sending the Ring to Mordor in the hands of two hobbits was crazy too, and yet it was the only choice

And that is the key to this moment. Aragorn is not driven by ego, he doesn't need to prove his naysayers wrong, he was content to be cast down upon as lowly ranger in Bree if it meant those people lived free from the Shadow of the East

Aragorn isn't going to Gondor to claim a throne for himself. He made a promise to a dying man Minas Tirith shall not fall! and to keep his oath to his captain, he must summon the oathbreakers to restore the bond once broken to his ancestor. Kingship is a duty not a privilege

So he takes the Door of the Dead, not knowing what his fate will be They may suffer me to pass... but at the least I will adventure it

Before the Door from which the living might never return, Aragorn refuses to order other men to do something he wouldn't do Aragorn led the way. Even after passing through the Door, the way is not simple and the journey is not easy every hour that is lost there will bring the triumph of Sauron nearer, but Aragorn refused to abandon his duty long had the terror of the Dead lain upon that hill

We all already know what happens next. Aragorn's arrival is etched into the readers memory, it's a great scene in a great chapter thus came Aragorn, but this moment, when all the world tells him the way is shut and he cannot do something, and he finds his resilience, is perhaps even greater

The man who was scorned as a Ranger in Bree, who failed as a leader at Amon Hen and broke down in tears over a friends corpse, who could not rescue even two hobbits from a band of Uruk-Hai, simply does not care if other people think he's enough, he cares about being enough for other people. That's the mentality that brings him to the Black Gate, for the dual climax of the Gardener carrying Frodo up the mountain and the King drawing away the eye

.

When I was a kid, I was told I might never be able to read a book. My mom got me The Hobbit. It took me a long time to get through it the first time, but the second time was much faster (let's not count how many times it's been since), and by grade 2 I was reading the Lord of the Rings (slowly)

When my own teachers were telling me I couldn't do something, Tolkien showed me what I, and all of us, are capable of if we persevere and do things for the right reasons

This is something that I've wondered for a long time, and I've often wondered how many other readers have wondered it as well.

The problem is this: in 'The Shadow of the Past', Gandalf expresses to Frodo his suspicions that the ring has has inherited from Bibo is no mere magical trinket, but possibly something far more powerful, important and dangerous - but, crucially, it is not until he throws the ring into the hearth and sees the glowing inscription that he is finally sure.

However, he also tells Frodo that it was "plainly" a Great Ring, and that this was "clear from the start." Now Gandalf knows as well as anyone does that the Three Rings are accounted for, since he carries one of them himself and is in close contact with the keepers of the other two. The Nine Rings are also accounted for: Gandalf believes them to be worn by the Nazgûl, while other sources (for example in *Unfinished Tales*) say that Sauron took those rings from the Nazgûl and keeps them in Barad-dûr. That leaves the Seven, which have a mixed fate - some reclaimed by Sauron, some devoured by dragons (presumably along with their hapless owners - so Tolkien could have implied some ambiguity about whether all of the Seven were accounted for; but he didn't. For instance, in 'The Quest of Erebor' from UT, Gandalf says that Thrain, imprisoned in Dol Guldur and half-mad from torture, told him that Sauron had taken "the last of the Seven" from him. And if anyone should have known, it would be him, the currently reigning king of the most senior of the seven Houses of the Dwarves.

There's also the fact that "the Three, the Seven and the Nine had each their proper gem", while the One Ring was of plain gold, although this could have been a piece of information that Gandalf found out in his researches in the years prior to his announcement of it at the Council of Elrond.

When I've put this question to people on this sub before, the most common answer has been that Saruman claimed to have discovered that the One Ring had "rolled down the Great River into the Sea", and that Gandalf has simply taken Saruman at his word. I find this deeply unsatisfactory: why would a tiny object made from an extremely dense metal "roll" anywhere when dropped into water? And how could Saruman have discovered any such fact without the Ring itself having been found?

Is there another plausible explanation that I haven't come across, or is it just a minor inconsistency? (One that I can live with, to be honest. I just find it interesting.)