Stop looking to musicians for political guidance or expecting them to use their platform in the way you want. They’re famous and influential because they make music, not because of their political knowledge. Make decisions based off facts and expert opinions and if you want to be influential, build your own platform.
Metallica has been very political when it suits them. For them to make a statement about how they’re not going to be political like that’s some sort of accomplishment makes them look like hypocritical jerkoffs. That’s also a fuckin political statement in the first place. They could’ve just played the show and shut the fuck up. That would have actually been apolitical.
That last point you brought up is the most important point. I didn't know that context of this. I figured maybe someone was asking them a question. They were responding.
But they made a point of stopping to say this? Makes them look like a bunch of losers.
Including this time. This was a political statement. Going out of your way to say we aren’t political like some other guy when everyone knows exactly who you’re talking about is political speech.
To add to this, Hetfield's wording is condescending towards his fellow artists. Fucking hell, his and his audience's taxes are being used to fund bombing babies in Palestine and condeming that is apparently "bullshit."
Stop telling people how to filter which music they want to consume. Plenty of bands garnered more fame taking political positions. I would agree they shouldn’t be your sole resource for political education, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with listening to bands that ideologically align.
Where did I tell anyone how to filter which music they want to consume? I said to stop looking to musicians for political guidance and implied that we have no right to tell someone else how they should use the platform they built.
James saying this right after the Ed Sheeran controversy IS political. He's not politely saying he doesn't want to get political, he's mad that anyone expects them to say something specifically after this controversy. That's taking a stance on politics.
Well, the insulting taking a stance as "political bulshit" can easily be taken as a shot at artists who are indeed taking a stance. Not to mention publicly choosing not to take a stance is still a political stance. It backs the whole "shut up an dribble" view of politics in entertainment.
Especially since to my understanding, he could have simply not volunteered the comment.
If you want to say his stance is that artists shouldn’t use their platform to influence others then that’s fair. He still didn’t say that, just that his band wasn’t going to but he had made his personal belief on that clear. He has not, to my knowledge, spoken about out on the wars Gaza, Iran, or Ukraine and so acting as if this answer does that just straight up is not true
Thought they had openly supported Ukranian refugees. Like with a concert.
But he didn't just say they weren't going to be political. His response was fairly hostile towards it in general. Which isn't unreasonable to take as both a political stance, and a statement on other artists who are.
Did they? I was unaware of that is so but that’s great. James Hetfield is a rockstar in his 60’s, I wouldn’t have expected him to communicate this in the same way PR spokesperson would. Does that mean he was being hostile toward the idea of using your platform that way? Up to the person I suppose, I took his comments as more vague and avoiding controversy which seems to be increasingly difficult and less as a shot towards anyone else.
And I don’t need to be told this by the singer from Metallica. He’s literally doing the exact same shit he’s bitching about and doesn’t even realize it. This is America, our performers can have political opinions. If he doesn’t like it he can move to a country which doesn’t allow this.
I mentioned that in passing, but nice strawman. Don't even address the Ukrainian refugee thing...
And no, they can perform whatever they want. And we can critique whatever we want too. That critique lies in them coming out (when this eye was never on them until they did) just to say "we're not gonna be political" when they were political for Ukraine, just fine...
Maybe they should've just kept playing shows, and not being political, because nobody was paying attention to them being political or not RN in the first place. Instead of coming out and saying "we're not gonna be political." That would've actually been apolitical. In coming out just to say this, they've politicized themselves...
An artist feels strongly about a certain issue, so the artist makes a statement about the issue which is something that is important for the artist.
All artists being pressured to make a statement about whichever political thing (mostly American) public is worked up about.
The first one is when artist genuenly feels like doing something, and the second one is expecting that artists MUST act like their job is to do political commentary.
Its fucking wild to see how many terminally online people think that its a reasonable ask that now everything that they are worked up about, must be something that everyone else should be worked up about.
But ask yourself: What is that you want to see? Do you want to see a society where everyone has to performatively fill some political checkbox for you, like its some fucking pharmaceutical ad, where the narrator does that super fast disclosure. I mean most of the people here will bitch and whine about world becoming into corporate like dystopia, where everything is fake, insencere and soulless and yet in moments like these, when it fits your worldview, a sudden amnesia will hit your ideals on how you would like your life to look like, but when it will be against your worldview, you will be outraged at how people would support something like that. Its like when for example PR/marketing department ruins a movie plot by making the movie neutered to pass CCP censor, because the studio wants to tap into Chinese marketshare.
Especially among Americans, but this keeps creeping into other Western countries, there is this fucking obsession over performative politics, to make everything fucking political when it has no business with politics. When you complain about polarization, reflect on how much you yourself contribute to it when its convenient for you. And then you get a world full of bland, meaningless statements without a place for meaningful conversation.
Except #2 didn't happen to Metallica... It's not a response, it's their statement... The political eye of this topic was not on them to begin with. To just keep playing shows and mind your business, would've been truly apolitical. In making this statement (not a response to a question) they've politicized themselves...
Edit: also, again, they've been political for ukranian refugees. So to make this statement when the political eye was never on them, is hypocritical. They can do what they want, sure. And we can criticize what we want and call out hypocrisy.
When Metallica was good, their music WAS political. It is only now that they are rich and old and their whole existence is "We are Metallica" that they no longer stand for anything.
I don't expect every artist to be political or make a stand, but when artists who have made political music in the past suddenly act like politics are beneath them, it reads the same as a dating profile of a guy who says they "aren't political" - its code for "you wouldn't like my politics" - if they really weren't political, they wouldn't have felt the need to say anything.
Their music was broadly political yes, like being anti-war, but with how polarized things are now I don’t blame them for not wanting to give a statement. People fill in the blanks and assign a persons worth based off political opinions much more today than in the 80’s. Simply saying “I’m anti war” in today’s climate can piss off some MAGA Republican who would take that to mean he hates the current President. Maybe he fills that way, maybe he doesn’t, I do, but I’m not in a band that represents more than myself and is the livelihood of multiple people.
Saying that they refuse to say "I'm anti-war" because it could upset pro-war people is the very definition of cowardice/greed. You mean their previous anti-war stuff wasn't actually political because everyone at the time agreed with the sentiment? That they only took a stance because it was 0% controversial and it wasn't going to lose them any money? It is one thing to be an apolitical artist, but to take a stance that artists shouldn't be political after they built their success on songs with an actual message can only mean one of two things: Either they were always insincere in their messaging, and were just parroting popular topics, OR, their politics have changed over time to something that they know would lose them fans and money, so they resent people trying to get them to publicly "stand up for their beliefs" the way they used to.
The 'peoples livelihood' argument is pretty ironic given what just went down with Ed Sheeran - he claimed he couldn't do what was right because his supporting acts relied on him financially - only for all of them to pull out of the tour. Doing the right thing was significantly more costly for them than it would have been for Ed. Metallica, too, has enough money to stand up for their beliefs if they wanted to. Ed, though, has never been political, and Metallica has. What has changed is either that now money is more important than the message or their message has changed to something that they know would not be popular - just like my example of guys putting "not political" in their dating bios.
For the record, I am also of the opinion that an artist doesn't need to be political, but if they have a history of being political, and then make a statement about how artists shouldn't be political, it reads as hypocritical at best and an insult to their legacy at worst. They didn't need to say anything, the fact that they did seems like they are telling on themselves.
I didn’t say that they refuse to say for fear of upsetting people. I said them doing so would do so because the political climate is much more polarizing/hostile than it was when they were making these politician songs. Even having a like warm opinion on an complex issue have result in your entire ethos being labeled by someone else.
I also don’t feel like he said artists SHOULDN’T be political, simply that they were not. Maybe that is what he meant but it struck me more as “I’m not doing it” but delivered the way a rockstar in his 60’s delivers things. He shouldn’t tell others his to use it not use their platform if that’s what he was doing. He also shouldn’t be told how to use his and saying he isn’t going to use his to influence our politics doesn’t mean anything more than exactly that
"I didn't say that they refuse for fear of upsetting people. I said them doing so would [upset people]." So if it would upset people, and they aren't doing it, why aren't they doing it if not to avoid upsetting people?
Also, the quote in the OP is:
"Metallica is not here, like some other entertainers, to influence you with their political bullshit"
Which is clearly talking about other entertainers, calling their politics bullshit, and is also obviously in reference to the very recent and current political/cultural discourse about artists' politics.
The statement that artists don't have an obligation to champion causes would not be controversial if it existed in a complete cultural vacuum, but it doesn't. Here it is clearly in response to something else that has been going on, to the extent that 'we won't take a stance' is itself a clear stance, especially since you could have said nothing at all, and ESPECIALLY since they were fine taking stances when it wasn't as risky for their brand/money.
Artists don't NEED to stand for anything, they can just be pure entertainers, totally - in fact, I'd honestly rather not hear their opinions, even if I agree with them. BUT, what we have now is some artists speaking out about genocide and getting cut from tours, and this quote essentially implying that the "right" thing to do is to just keep your mouth shut and cash your checks. You don't need to use your platform for good, but to come out and criticize other artists for doing so is not a neutral statement.
It's not just a boomer spouting off about not wanting to be political, it is in reference to current events, and that is why it is so distasteful.
Metallica may have zero issue with upsetting someone, they seem to have done it here. I don’t know if that’s why they’ve taken this stance and you don’t either. You’re taking what he said and assigning what he meant and I’m not with that. Is he talking about Macklemore in a negative way? Is he trying to avoid the issue Ed Sheeran is facing? Is he trying to emulate Dolly Parton’s apolitical nature in a more gruff way as a 60 something year old rock star? I don’t know, you don’t either.
If I had to guess, I think Hetfield is conservative. He hasn’t said that though so I don’t know and I’m not going to fill in blanks. I know Ulrich is liberal, Metallica is 4 people and I bet they have views that differ and I also bet there’s many things they simply don’t care about either way. The political climate is different today than it was, they have a right to step back from being political now if they don’t feel like it’s where they want to be for whatever reason. I also just disagree that saying they’re not going to “influence you with their bullshit” is a political statement. The word “political” was not spoken in the quote, it was simply added to this photo and for this exact reason.
I don't know why he said this, you're right. But I can easily infer from context. He was also aware of the context when he said it.
It seems like your argument is that he made this highly-relevant-to-current-events statement for no reason, meant nothing by it, and that it is unreasonable to assume that it is related to the current discourse. You also keep suggesting, despite the OP quote, that this is just about them saying they are going to keep politics out of their act, but he didn't say "We won't try to influence you with our bullshit" they said, "[Unlike] other entertainers, we won't try to influence you with our bullshit", to act like those aren't very different statements is arguing in bad faith. He is referencing other entertainers here, clearly, and suggesting that they are in the wrong. Again, given the current cultural context, it is pretty easy to figure out what inspired him to say this, and who the other entertainers he is referencing are.
Also, I'll repeat. I don't think bands have an obligation to take a stand. I'm not actually upset about this, or about to boycott Metallica, or anything like that. TBH I think they should stay apolitical these days, since their devoted audience is probably mostly suburban dads at this point, and they are an ongoing nostalgia band, not a current band, which gives them more of a moral imperative to just be message-free easy listening, even if it is ironic given their sound and origins. The show was in Vegas for chrissakes, not Woodstock, it would have been really stupid of him to share anything political there, one side or another. Besides, Metallica doesn't have to have a spotless moral character to enjoy their music - who cares? Unless ticket sales are actively funding genocide, I think one should separate fans from the artist in the same way as one would separate the art from the artist.
But being apolitical would mean NOT taking this stance, which would have been as easy as NOT saying this. I feel like there are some mental gymnastics going on to suggest that this wasn't said in response to the current discourse, and that going out of your way to say you aren't going to make a statement - unlike SOME people and their bullshit - is not a deliberate statement.
I'm not saying he's evil for saying this. I'm saying, like you, that he is a man in his 60s stumbling through a relatively innocuous and outwardly positive statement. The thing is, though, that because of the cultural context which he is most certainly responding to, he is telling on himself a little bit, and because of their past, people are pointing out the hypocrisy.
That, like most things, can vary. I would consider myself anti-war but I feel like we should be doing more to help Ukraine. If someone asked me about aid to Ukraine and my response was “I’m anti war” I know that would upset people and I wouldn’t think all of those people are warmongers. Similar to that if you asked someone on 1941 if we should intervene in Germany to stop the Holocaust and the response was simply “I’m anti war” history would not look on that person kindly and I personally would not look on them kindly. I think there are times where war is unfortunately necessary and/or justified, I don’t think the war in Gaza is justified at all but there’s a history there that goes well behind the current war and whether it’s right or wrong many people disagree on that.
Those are extreme examples and I don’t care know exactly what issue Hetfield was addressing (or if he even was addressing a particular issue) but people today are awful about taking something you said and then telling you what you meant. That is worse than it was in the 80’s and I don’t blame anyone for staying away from it with their platform. On the reverse, I don’t have any issue with someone who used their platform try and influence or champion an issue or cause
So Amazon, Google, Apple? I assume you have a smartphone? Use email? None of those CEOs have come out in support of your cause - they’ve been awfully silent. Google even endorsed the Gulf of America lol. Nvidia? AMD? Intel? All have regular correspondence with the current admin.
I mean all their songs are pretty political. But yeah he’s basically done the round about siding with republicans. The whole just here to do a show take is the cowards way of saying I don’t want to be directly canceled.
The cowards way would be surely to toe the line and get up talking about a cause you don't believe in.
I don't think they want to be involved and they just want to play music.
If you're taking political direction from a bunch of drug addict rock stars who've spent the last 40 years completely isolated from reality, then you're probably beyond help anyway.
Ok. Was he asked to address the killing and raping of children or are you extrapolating what he said/what he was addressing? Has he said anything to suggest he is advocating for the killing and raping of children?
Sure that seems pretty common sense. If there’s a bad man and you’re aren’t against it, then you’re for it. If there’s a good man and you aren’t against it, then you’re for it.
The quote is a dig on a man calling out a bad man. The quote is saying don’t call out the bad man.
No we're are saying if an artist is maga, they dont deserve fame or money or attention. And all you have to do is denounce trump or maga, and youre good.
Shaming someone because their fat is wildly different from shaming someone who cant see or acknowledge a genocide while its happening, or any harmful policy a politician will push. One only harms one self, while the other has actual victims on the other end of it. Whether it works to change their mind is irrelevant, its so they stop being shamful in public, its for the gullible next generation who are still developing their minds that we have to protect. Hope that helps with the distinction of how those differ. Like it or not politics is life, honestly, the public should be more into it then we already are. Its a shame because democracy requires active participation to work.
Not what I asked. What have they said or done to show support for MAGA or for a genocide? I’d bet between the 4 of them you have an array of different beliefs and opinions too, they’re band mates not clones
Missing the point completely. Nobody cares what their opinion is. They have so many politically charged songs about tyranny and all that, they got super political and butthurt over Napster and used to cry about it on tv and at shows.
Now they wanna pretend they’re all neutral and have no stance?
This is a language issue, because it’s clearly not a binary. But that doesn’t mean a strong claim wasn’t made. Hetfield, the man I had a self drawn picture of I made in the 4th grade hanging up in my room until college, made a strong claim that they aren’t about politics. Which is fine, but that is still a claim. And that claim is fundamentally different from not making a claim at all (the same difference one could make between 0 and undefined). As such, they are open to having their claim poked and prodded at. That is beyond fair.
That is fair but we shouldn’t act like this means he is favor of X or opposed to Y. People take comments like this and try to extrapolate it to wider issue with a defined right answer and assign him an answer he didn’t give. I don’t understand or agree with that and I don’t think it’s wrong for someone to be like “I don’t want to touch that”
So that is a slightly different thing, but that comes down to the question actually not being about the question. The question of “should they be outspoken or not” is not actually about speaking out. It’s a proxy question to see which side you belong on. A similar example is l, very toxically, is the I/P debate. Most people actually do not care about the facts of the matter. They don’t care about the 47,49,56,67, etc disputes, they don’t care about UN resolutions, the disputes, the Intifadas, etc. Generally someone asks you “is what is happening is a genocide” they don’t actually care about your opinion. They don’t care how informed you are or aren’t. You are expected to take a side. And I mean… if you want a why humans will always resort to tribalism and reasons to separate people based literally any reason possible, then we need to go down a LONG road on sociology, human evolution, moral subjectivity, and several other fun topics.
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u/MarbleDesperado 18h ago
Stop looking to musicians for political guidance or expecting them to use their platform in the way you want. They’re famous and influential because they make music, not because of their political knowledge. Make decisions based off facts and expert opinions and if you want to be influential, build your own platform.