My local cEDH group printed off a paper-slip Dack yesterday to get some practice against it. Four different games, three different pilots, and it won three of the four games it was in.

This is not another "the sky is falling, Dack is broken" post, however. The reason Dack won each of these games is because in each of them, it just simply wasn't respected until it was too late.

So, I went through quite a bit of effort yesterday in another Dack post to find all of the common ways to stop Dack that are already played in cEDH. Here is that list, to once again try to advise people that Dack isn't an unstoppable juggernaut, it is stopped by almost every piece of interaction or disruption in the entire format. Edit: Thank you u/DownTimeDrive for clarifying that you can also stop a lot of Dack wins with instant speed sac outlets, as well.

Edit 2: Finally found some info on the new Boonweaver version, and... They seem like they're confident that this stops removal, but I don't see how it does? You just remove Boonweaver in response to the auras instead of Dack in response to the flickers? Would love more info from someone smarter than me on why that doesn't work.

There is a bit of a learning curve that will need to happen with Dack, but like any other turbo deck, it folds to pretty much any interaction. Here, a list, ordered by how much each piece is played in cEDH, per edhtop16:

1. Flusterstorm (87.5%): One of the worst options, it can still counter the various silence effects that Dack plays to keep others from interacting, along with their Enlightened Tutor to go get Mana Vault/LED, their various backup win-cons in their various Flicker effects, and their removal pieces to get rid of the various stax effects that may be holding them down.
2. Mental Misstep (87.4%): Counters their rituals (rocks) and tutors. Don't think, just do it. Counter the Sol Ring, the Mana Vault, etc, and they will likely not have Dack mana ever, or at least not until the super late game.
3. Force of Will (85.9%): Counter Dack.
4. Fierce Guardianship (85.4%): Counter their rituals and tutors.
5. Silence (85.1%): This one takes a bit of finesse and knowledge to not waste it, as you need to cast your silence effect before they cast Dack. That means the good old-fashioned upkeep Silence, although be open to talking about it... If they agree to not Dack until later, you've bought yourself a turn to either use it for your own win attempt, or hold it over their head again next upkeep.
6. Deflecting Swat (83.8%): D Swat can target abilities, meaning this works the same as using removal against Dack, for the most part. Them targeting their Dack to re-flicker should work under most circumstances, although if they get everything they need off the initial flip, then you'll have to get one of the flicker creatures targeting the other flicker creature instead. Just keep in mind that this only works against Felidar Guardian, All-Fates Stalker, Fiend Hunter, and Werefox Bodyguard. The others don't target.
7. Mindbreak Trap (81.6%): MBT won't work under all circumstances, but chances are good that they'll get greedy and go for all their rocks at once early, and then you can either get their last rock to stop their last mana, or the Silence they go for before they cast Dack, or Dack.
8. Swan Song (73.9%): Instant, sorcery, or enchantment. Using this against Smithe or Gleaming Splendor is a must. Otherwise, it's the same rules as Flusterstorm - counter the silences, the tutors, and the backup flicker effects.
9. Ranger-Captain of Eos (69.6%): As Silence.
10. Crop Rotation (66.2%): No green deck wants to do this, but getting a Talon Gates to remove their Dack in response to them flickering it will stop them, as will phasing out Radiant Solar, although they'll likely still end up with infinite tokens from Abdel Adrian in that case and be threatening win on their next turn.
11. Force of Negation (63.1%): Counter their rituals (rocks) and tutors.
12. An Offer you Can't Refuse (60.6%): Too risky, imo. Would use it to counter their flickers and Silences, but otherwise, probably not good for much.
13. Chord of Calling (58.1%): Depends on your deck what you can get, but if you're on Drannith, Ranger-Captain, or a copy creature you have relevant options. You just have to time them correctly.
14. REB (57.2%): Not worth a damn.
15. Chain of Vapor (56.2%): As previously stated, unless they already have everything they need, bouncing their Dack in response to them flickering it should stop them, at least until they replay it the next turn (if they can, and aren't dealing with a tapped Vault/Monolith or an already cracked LED).
16. (edit) Culling the Weak (52.7%): Since Dack has to give you its creatures before the various ETB triggers resolve, having an instant speed sac outlet actually can throw a wrench in their plans as well. In other words? Throw out your Culling the Weak, or activate your Phyrexian Tower to sacrifice their creature in response to their flicker ETB, and they have few to zero options, in most board states.
17. Pyroblast (49.6%): Not worth a damn.
18. Brain Freeze (46.3%): With Dack on the stack, or after they've cast a bunch of rocks/rituals, try to mill them out a bit and see if you get a combo piece. It's desperate, but if you get things in the graveyard that they need, they really can't recover from it.
19. Swords to Plowshares (44.4%): As previously stated, getting their Dack in response to them attempting to flicker it stops them, as does removing Radiant Solar, although that only buys you a turn until you die to infinite tokens.
20. Into the Flood Maw (43.4%): Same as Chain of Vapor.

That's everything above 40%, but since OP wanted to know about non-blue stuff, here's the relevant Stax effects:

1. Drannith Magistrate (23.9%): Drannith has been seeing more play lately, as more turbo decks that are commander-reliant raise their ugly heads. Guess what? Dack is one of those.
2. Deafening Silence (14.0%): Full disclosure - Dack plays this card, so obviously it doesn't hurt them that bad. That said, Rule of Law effects do slow them down the same as everyone else, so if you can win first...
3. Collector Ouphe (10.1%): It's unlikely they ever get to six mana without artifacts.
4. Dauthi Voidwalker (10.0%): Dauthi doesn't do anything to Dack, but very well might make the other interaction on this list available to you.
5. Vexing Bauble (9.8%): Will likely protect them late, but on T1, will stop their free rocks the same way it does everyone elses.
6. Spellskite (8.6%): Sure would be a shame if you blinked Spellskite instead of that Dack you were aiming for...
7. Aven Interrupter (8.2%): Meet your non-blue creature counter! Just be aware it only buys you a turn.
8. Ethersworn Canonist (7.6%): Be aware that Dack plays Rule of Law effects, so this doesn't stop them, it only slows them down. That said, it does slow them down, so if you can win first...
9. Archon of Emeria (7.4%): Same spiel as the other RoLs, although it slows them down even more with the tapped lands.
10. Blind Obedience (6.9%): This one is actually harder on them than RoL in a lot of cases, as it taps their Vaults and Monoliths.
11. Steal Enchantment (5.3%): If you see a Smithe/Gleaming Splendor out of Dack, chances are it's their whole game plan, and they can't do a damn thing about you stealing it on top of that.
12. High Noon (3.7%): Same spiel as the other RoLs.
13. Counterbalance (3.4%): They're gonna roll the dice, roll em right back on their rituals and tutors.
14. Grafdiggers Cage (3.1%): IMO, the best Stax effect in the format right now. Doesn't stop every deck, but hinders just about all of them in one way or another. As for Dack? Stops them in their tracks, and is the reason they play half the removal they do.
15. Blood Moon (3.0%): Awful against them, maybe your worst option. Still, it might catch the odd Ancient Tomb and buy you a turn or two.
16. Aura Shards (2.4%): It is hilarious to me that this card is seeing play these days, but... Yeah, this probably more or less ensures that a Dack never hits the field, if you focus on their rocks.
17. Damping Sphere (2.0%): Delays them if they have Ancient Tombs and the like, and slows down how fast they can get rocks down as well. All in all, probably only buys you a turn or two.
18. (edit, thank you several folks) Dress Down (1.4%): This in response to a Dack cast or trigger makes them not a threat at all unless they draw a flicker effect.
19. Torpor Orb (Too low for the scale): Surpisingly okay Stax effect, stopping random Thoracle wins that aren't on the back of Breach and the like, stopping Etali, and stopping the various blink decks you see every once in a while, from Derevi to Dack.
20. Weathered Runestone (Too low for the scale): Mentioned only because this thing doesn't see play because it stops too many decks, meaning the window for what decks can play it is tiny. If your deck can, though? Almost every deck in the format has to get rid of this before they can start winning.
21. (edit, thank you u/Needhelpwithsnake) Containment Priest (Too low for the scale): Not as sold on this one, as it doesn't do as much against the rest of the meta as Grafdiggers or even Torpor Orb. That said, it is an option that will stop Dack.

Would love to know what cards you play that you've had success against Dack with, or for more experienced Dack pilots (I've played one game with it and 3 against it so far) to tell me how I'm wrong on the interaction of a certain piece.

TL;DR: Every deck in the format has answers to Dack. You just need to actually figure out what they are, how to use them, and then most importantly... Respect the deck enough to actually do it.

Still relatively new to cEDH, and I've been watching a ton of gameplay online.

When it comes to cards like Rhystic Study, the people that I watch play almost never pay to stop the draw, often letting the Rhystic player draw 3+ cards per turn. A lot of the time this leads to them drawing enough enough cards to stop the other from winning, and then attempting the win on their turn. I'm not saying that other players NEVER pay the 1, but just that they seem to choose not to the overwhelming majority of the time.

And I'm just wondering why? I know that if you do pay the 1, then there's a good chance you won't get to advance your own board state, but if the Rhystic player draws into interaction then it may not matter anyway.

Obviously I know that these players are far better than me, so I'm not trying to state that I know better than them. Rather I'm just confused as to why it usually seems better to these players to just push instead of denying the card draw?

looking to find lines and how many of each mv artifact to go for a win thru infinite oswald activations

edit: thank you for all of your help. this community is great

I'm bringing cEDH to my city and I'm making an official cEDH league. I'm really happy and I really hope to have a big community since my city is really big.

I'm proxing different decks to make people try the format. Right now I have Ral, Blue Farm and RogTrasios.

Maybe Ral and Rog Trasios weren't a good choice because imho they are a bit too complicated for new players.

Which other deck can I proxy to let people try? Maybe Kinnan?

Hello. I'm in a dilemma. Some buddies of mine and myself are planning on ordering high quality proxies. We mostly play CEDH and we want to buy some more decks.

My friend plays [[Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy]]. It has been his number one deck and his first CEDH deck. He has played it ever since.

I like trying new decks. I change my decks all the time because I simply get bored of certain decks, or wanna play a new one. I once went from RogSi - Kefka - Rogsi - Tymna Kraum.

I have recently picked up a taste for Kinnan. I tried my friends deck, and it rocks. It's super fun and I win. I have of course brewed my own version on Archidekt, but it's similar since Kinnan really has only one game plan with mana and such. It's everything I like about CEDH. A ton of mana and a bunch of counterspells.

I'm thinking about ordering a Kinnan deck now. I asked my friend if he would find it a bit annoying that I am ordering his "pet deck". He said that it's a little annoying because it's his first deck and his main deck.

So I do not know what to do. Kinnan is one of the best commanders in CEDH, and I really want to have the deck. But I do feel bad. I asked him if it would change anything if I just avoided playing it whenever he played it, but he said it doesn't make a difference.

I understand where he's coming from. I would probably feel the same way if I had a pet deck like that.

I have looked at other similar decks like RograkhThrasios, but it just isn't the same as Kinnan.

Any opinions?

edit: Please do not hate on my friend. He's one of my best friends and I do understand where he's coming from

New EP! 🔥🔥🔥 Come listen to us Yap about Yams! We talk about Tayam strategies, the current tournament meta, and bonds experience getting into Cedh! https://youtu.be/Cbs1wVel-Os?is=DYaNoqiihxMmwHmI

Hi, is there a Shang Chi discord server?

Does anyone have any good decklist for new cedh players? I was thinking rog/thras but I'm open to other suggestions.

Hello everyone I have been playing hashaton lately (the build glacialcity made) and I’ve been considering running containment priest as another stax/control piece in the deck. I think it would do really well into most matchups aside from blue farm/ral/rogsi. What are your thoughts on the card? The fact it can exile someone’s wincon in response to them tutoring it out is rather good and it also shuts down people trying to reanimate my bombs from grave. The downside is obviously that I wouldn’t be able to use my own sun titan to get thassas back but that may well be worth the trade off.

As the title says, I’m wanting to get into cEDH and have only played casual before, and around bracket 2-3 to be exact. Kellan, the Kid is by far my favorite commander in the game and I was wondering if he’s even possibly viable to be a decent cEDH commander. Any advice regarding deck building and playing cEDH as a whole are incredibly welcomed as well!

Last night I stumbled upon [[On the Trail]] and immediately stopped dead in my tracks. I feel like this is a fantastic engine to build your resources faster in many of the green decks currently in the meta, no? Basically in any Thrasios deck at the least. Am I missing something or has this card just gone unnoticed?

What the headline says, gang! What, in your opinion, is the current best turbo deck out there? My gut, and my understanding of results and data, is that it's still RogSi. I hear that Nick Fury Ad Naus turbo piles and Ral are both as good if not better according to results and data. (There's a little more to the story than "I hear," but I don't think anybody needs me to regale them with stories of my conversations with other players about this very subject.)

I'm not sure I agree with that line of thought; Ral, at least, has a slightly higher conversion rate and a lower meta share than RogSi, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a lower meta share can skew conversion rates higher. I also admit to having less experience playing against Fury and Ral than I do RogSi, though this might be kind of a Barnum statement given that RogSi remains one of the most popular decks in the field at the moment.

What're y'all's thoughts? What do tourney regulars see at cEDH events, and what're your experiences with each? Curious to hear stories and get some evidence from the field.

Can someone explain to me what makes Sisay hard to learn? I feel it’s really easy no? You really just need to learn about 3 enablers and what makes them enablers? Like Agatha’s, Shang Chi, and Bloom tender I guess. Is it really that complicated? People have told me that it’s a very technical deck and in all honesty the only thing technical I’ve found with it is learning how to politic people away from removing trivial pieces like mana dorks or bouncing Sisay. Other than that it’s just a pretty simple count to WUBRG deck right?

So I’ve tried Rog/Si , [[Yuriko, Tiger’s Shadow]] and I’ve tried [[Gwenom]] and they just didn’t click. I often times stray away from black mana in commander but usually enjoy black decks in standard.

Cedh is a different beast though and I haven’t found a list in I’ve loved yet.
I’m hoping the community has some decks they’d recommend to play!

Got a lot of store credit to play around with so wondering what to prioritise.

I'd like to preface this by saying that I love to think outside the box on issues that probably nobody cares about, such as this. I know this idea will never be implemented, but I think it's fun to think about and theorize around. I was inspired by learning that the greatest players in the Chess world prefer Chess960 to the normal game, as it solves the obscure problem of the game being about memorizing openings.

The player who goes first in a cEDH game inherently has an advantage on mana and a card. It's not a big enough issue to make the game unplayable, but I think there's a very easy solution that I haven't heard brought up before. Is it flawed, yes, but that's what reddit is for- discussion.

simultaneous turns

-----Everyone shares phases, and the next phase isn't reached until everyone passes priority.

-----Everyone draws their card for turn at the same time.

-----As soon as 1 player plays a land, each other player may play a land as well (MTG burgeoning).

-----The turns still move in turn order (P1 -> P2 -> P3 -> P4), and every time the collective turn would end, the starting player is shifted clockwise (P2 -> P3 -> P4 -> P1), etc.

-----Combat starts with P1, atk and blk declared, then all damage is removed and P2 begins combat.

Cards like Gemstone Caverns still works, because there is still technically a "first player".

Another issue would be cards like "each upkeep", but if upkeeps went in turn order, then 1 particular effect would just happen 4 times in a row. Definitely janky, but not unplayable.

Then there's cards like Obeka that end the turn. Not common in cEDH, but a workaround could be that only THAT particular player's turn ends, and the other 3 continue their turn.

I'm sure that there is plenty more jank, but I'd love to hear how stupid of an idea it is. Love y'all 🥰

I see lists of him doing okay in tournaments and was wandering how it actually wins other than ruining everyone’s day :D I see lines with mastermind /splendor tithe and copies, having to get a shuffle titan in the grave in between and decking everyone. But aside from this is there anything? :D there was a combo with hullbreaker that bounces everyone’s board right ? How is that pulled off again? Other combos are teferi/kitten to draw deck right?

I know this is asking a lot, but I also know there are people in the community that love to be helpful.

I was wondering if there already exists, or if someone could, make a quizlet type of flash card with common cEDH combos and the decks they may be seen in.

New players to cEDH (like myself) rely on others to tell them when there's a combo and I would love to be able to study the combos and the decks they're in so when playing I can anticipate what is happening. The problem is there aren't any good resources I've found other than just looking up each individual commander and their combos and studying it that way or just playing for years.

Title. I had one of my friends ask an interesting question to me today. He asked me whag would happen to the meta if WOTC ended up banning all the cards that get value of your opponents doing stuff, like smothering tithe, rhystic, lotho, esper, fairie mastermind, cabbage merchant etc.

Would it ruin the meta or make it more interesting? Im not skilled enough to know, so Im just wondering what would happen to the meta and how cEDH would be played.

Hello Friends,

It is again Wednesday, which means there is another match of the Open @ the German Nationals coming online on SmokestackCEDH. This week we've got Round 4, which features an enormous stack battle and some clever politicking!

Players in this match will be Julius Fiedler on Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. is taking Seat 1. On Seat 2 we have Alexander Blunk playing Tymna, the Weaver and Kraum, Ludevic's Opus (Blue Farm). Seat 3 features Peter Birrer on Inalla, Archmage Ritualist and Fabian Meyer-Benz finishes the table with Captain Sisay.

Check out the match on our channel @Smokestack cEDH: https://youtu.be/XrSMN8oLAlc

We also have something exciting for you this weekend! We will be livestreaming from Hasselt, Belgium and showing you the Tap That Tundra EU Championship Qualifier! The starting time for the tournament is 10:30AM CEST on Saturday October 17th, so expect us to go live around that time. Subscribe if you don't want to miss it! There are still some (6 at time of writing) seats remaining, so if you can make it to Hasselt on Saturday, maybe we will see you in the feature match!

https://topdeck.gg/event/tap-that-tundra-eu-championship-qualifier

Next rounds of the Open @ the German Nationals will be uploaded in the coming weeks, so make sure to subscribe (and like)!

A special thanks to all the players who featured on our table! We hope you guys enjoyed your games and like the video we made. We'd love to hear from you in the comments if you have any insights on these games!

See you next week

Chris and Maarten @SmokestackCEDH

Hi! My boyfriend plays cEDH, and I'm hoping to surprise him with something useful for his hobby. I'd love some recommendations from experienced players.
For those who regularly play cEDH, what accessories do you actually use and appreciate? Are there particular deck boxes, playmats, or other gear that you consider worth investing in?
I'd especially appreciate recommendations from people who play at tournaments or regularly attend competitive events. Thanks for helping out!

Currently working on a Ardenn/Tana decklist. The aim of the deck is to lock the board down with powerful stax pieces such as artifact hate and Blood Moon-effects, while braking parity with Ardenn, and either winning with Godo/Helm or through combat damage.

What are your suggestions for the list? This is my second CEDH deck, after building Ukkima/Cazur earlier, so I am sure the deck is far from perfect.

List: https://moxfield.com/decks/6Zxk0Ns39UG8cMnkFippaQ

Hey all, getting off of a decently long layoff in mtg and was wondering how many of the large events require real cards if any? I am thinking of selling out of some of my expensive edh cards and would love to be able to participate