r/europe • u/diwalibonus • 3d ago
News France's far-left presidential candidate cheers Gen Z school protests
https://www.ottumwacourier.com/news/national_news/frances-far-left-presidential-candidate-cheers-gen-z-school-protests/article_940c7ba0-1c9d-5c24-9f8f-1883be7d4e5e.html1.5k
u/MrAlexius 3d ago
I'm genuinely exhausted by the amount of misinformation circulating about French politics.
I don't particularly like Mélenchon. He's a politician. But apparently, not wanting political journalism to misrepresent basic facts means I have to spend my free time defending someone I don't even particularly support.
Let's examine what this article actually says.
- "Far-left"
France has actual revolutionary communist organisations, including Lutte Ouvrière and NPA-Révolutionnaires. They explicitly advocate replacing capitalism through revolutionary transformation.
LFI proposes radical economic redistribution, nationalisations in strategic sectors, ecological planning and a Sixth Republic.
- "His programme doesn't mention Ukraine."
This is particularly misleading.
Mélenchon's own 2027 campaign website explicitly includes demands for a ceasefire, Russian troop withdrawal from Ukraine, and negotiations towards a lasting peace.
LFI's 2024 European programme also explicitly advocates continuing support for Ukraine, investigating war crimes and helping finance Ukrainian reconstruction.
You can criticise Mélenchon's statements about the war, his opposition to certain military assistance or his proposed negotiations with Moscow. There are legitimate controversies there.
But presenting Ukraine as absent from his political programme ignores publicly available documents.
- "Against NATO" apparently means "pro-Russia."
LFI advocates French military non-alignment, beginning with withdrawal from NATO's integrated command structure and ultimately leaving the alliance.
That is a major foreign-policy proposal with serious consequences worth debating.
But opposition to American strategic leadership is not automatically support for Russian imperialism. The programme explicitly condemns Russia's invasion and calls for the withdrawal of Russian forces!!! Especially when a certain country is constantly menacing to take rightfully a part of the European union, or Canada ahem a member of Nato!
- "Mélenchon wants to cancel France's staggering debt."
No. He's proposing to freeze or cancel the portion of French public debt held by the central banking system, notably the Banque de France.
We're talking about approximately 15–18% of the debt, depending on the definition used, not cancelling every obligation owed to private investors.
There are serious legal and economic objections to that proposal, particularly concerning European monetary law and investor confidence. Those deserve examination.
But replacing a specific proposal concerning central-bank holdings with "cancel France's debt" is a fundamental distortion.
- "Retirement age to 60 from 62."
The article even gets the French retirement system wrong.
The 2023 reform progressively raised the legal retirement age towards 64. Although part of that reform was suspended in 2026, the applicable retirement age still varies by birth year, reaching 64 for those born from 1969 onwards.
Reducing it to 60 is therefore not simply reversing a retirement age of 62.
- "Mélenchon is encouraging violent protests."
The article itself acknowledges that Mélenchon says LFI isn't organising the protests and wants them to remain peaceful.
More than 6,600 arrests have indeed been reported, and some demonstrations have involved serious violence.
But supporting students protesting deteriorating schools and staff shortages is not the same thing as endorsing violence.
If there's evidence that LFI organised violent incidents, publish it. Otherwise, distinguish support for the students' demands from responsibility for criminal behaviour.
And then there are the familiar claims in the comments whenever LFI comes up.
- "LFI supports Hamas and antisemitism."
LFI's programme explicitly calls for the release of hostages held by Hamas, international prosecution of war crimes and measures against antisemitism.
Its leaders' statements about October 7 and antisemitism have generated genuine controversies and criticism. Those statements can be examined individually.
But advocating Palestinian statehood, opposing Israeli government policies or demanding accountability for violations of international law does not, by itself, establish support for Hamas or antisemitism.
- "LFI wants open borders, no police and the destruction of the EU."
The programme actually proposes immigration regularisation measures, reforms of border enforcement, restoring community policing, strengthening criminal investigations and challenging specific EU rules that conflict with its economic programme.
Those are controversial policies, particularly concerning immigration and European treaty obligations. But they aren't accurately described by slogans about abolishing the police or automatically leaving the EU.
And this is exactly what frustrates me.
Every time I see another article like this, I find myself spending an hour checking claims, reading original documents and explaining French politics to people who confidently repeat things they've never verified.
I'm not even defending a politician I like. I'm defending the principle that criticism should be based on what someone actually says and proposes.
And I'm increasingly annoyed that correcting misleading political narratives has become unpaid work for ordinary people.
Sources: 2027 campaign's own programme review, the LFI European election programme on Ukraine and the French government's retirement age information.
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u/xX-AnyRoutine666-Xx 3d ago
Mate... First of all, respect for researching and debunking all that, but also it doesn matter: this subreddit has been about bashing France and pushing far-right views, nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to read all that.
But again, respect. Cheers mate
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u/MrAlexius 3d ago
Thanks mate, you are correct it's a fight against windmills, but just ignoring all their shit makes it worse.
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u/Hydr0rion 3d ago
it's not, there is people like me reading it all, being extremly gratefull that people like you exist, upvote and go look other point of view.
Your post matter, at least to me.
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u/JackoSGC France 3d ago
As someone supporting LFI, I am happy to see the propaganda doesnt affect everyone, so having you fact check fairly all this made my smile. Thank you
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u/RedTulkas 2d ago
the US is massively overrepresented on reddit
and not wanting to hound immigrants is what many of them consider "far-left"
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u/AutisticAndArmed 2d ago
Now that Russian bot farm activity is low is a good time for healthier debate. It will pick back up soon enough unfortunately.
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u/MiguelIstNeugierig Portugal 3d ago
Breaking news, Charles de Gaulle was a pro-soviet communist for opposing NATO
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u/RockinMadRiot Wales 3d ago
I think people don't understand how influencal Gaullism still is on France politicals today from both sides of the wing.
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u/zelani06 2d ago
it is but most people and politicians actually have no idea what he stood for, they just throw his name around because it sounds cool
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u/HasuTeras British in Warsaw. 3d ago
de Gaulle didn't oppose NATO, he just withdrew France from NATO's command structure. It was still covered by the alliance.
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u/MiguelIstNeugierig Portugal 3d ago
Why did he withraw France from NATO's command structure?
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u/JeanJacquesBourrin 3d ago
It's difficult to explain it quickly, but first, it was decided when France obtained its own nuclear weapons.
As to why, the philosophy behind it is that France should be able to stand on its own militarily and have no dependencies to other foreign powers as much as possible. They remained allies with NATO, but the French Army was completely independent of NATO in its structure, equipment, etc...
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u/HasuTeras British in Warsaw. 3d ago
Withdrawing from the command structure is not the same as withdrawing from the entirety of the alliance, and is a false equivalence.
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u/LeoVonMoote 2d ago
True, but the stated goal of de Gaulle was to not be subservient to the US. Which is the real debate here. He wanted France to be treated like an equal partner with allies, not become a vassal state of US power.
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u/DeanoPreston City of London 3d ago
Dans la crise en Ukraine, l'agresseur est-il la Russie ou l'Otan ? "L'Otan, sans aucun doute", a répondu Jean-Luc Mélenchon, jeudi 10 février, sur France 2, dans l'émission "Elysée 2022".
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u/JackRogers3 2d ago edited 2d ago
Mélenchon, a few weeks ago on TV: "La Russie devient de plus en plus menaçante parce que l'Ukraine bombarde sa capitale"
A pathetic idiot, indeed!
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u/Ravenkell Iceland 3d ago
How most of media identifies "the Left":
LePen was on the right and since Macron was to the left for her, he is the Left.
Bernie Sanders is Far Left because no one we know of in American politics is more Left.
China says they are communist, so they are the Left.
Russia was communist so Putin is the Left (bonus point when actual communists believe this).
Europe won't help attack Iran, so Europe is the Left.
Scientists believe global warming is real and vaccines work, so science is the Left.
My wife left me, so she is the Left.
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u/TheVoidSeeker European Union 2d ago
My wife left me, so she is the Left.
But she went right to another man, so she is the Right.
Is she one of the fabled enlightened centrists?
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u/DurangoGango Italy 2d ago edited 2d ago
1088 updoots
Reddit is so easy to propagandize:
I don't particularly like Mélenchon.
I'm not even defending a politician I like.
Why would a Russian citizen who intends to vote for Melenchon come into arr Europe and pose as someone who "doesn't even like him" while... vocally defending and sanewashing Melenchon's positions, especially on Ukraine and NATO? Same user who vocally attacks pro-Ukraine left-wing candidates and argues "France cannot afford to maintain public services or reduce its deficit while simultaneously allocating billions to Ukraine"?
Every time I see another article like this, I find myself spending an hour checking claims, reading original documents
You literally asked an LLM to write this comment for you. The original, which can still be found in archives, shows that the last line originally began with:
Sources worth attaching
For Reddit, the three strongest documents are the
followed by the links that are visible now. You edited it quickly to remove the obvious tell, but the original was still archived as raw json:
archive .is/t6oET
Even with your subsquent edit you failed to remove the "?utm_source=chatgpt.com" media tags from the links.
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u/TheDayDreamair 2d ago
Holy moly. I didnt even know the "?utm_source=chatgpt.com" was a thing. Well done
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u/SimonGray Copenhagen 2d ago
And hidden history is also a giveaway. They always have a hidden history.
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u/IAmOfficial 2d ago
So strange that an AI slop comment pushed by a Russian gets 3x more upvotes than the next highest comment. Very, very strange
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u/CallenAmakuni 2d ago
> followed by the links that are visible now. You edited it quickly to remove the obvious tell, but the original was still archived as raw json:
archive .is/t6oET
Could you please explain what this means?
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u/TheDayDreamair 2d ago edited 2d ago
It becomes a link if you remove the space between the 'e' and '.'. On that page you a can see a json file or text file with his comment.
There you can see the original comment
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u/UnFelDeZeu 2d ago
Lmao I knew something was fishy when he said " France isn't a vassal to NATO " it's straight out of the nationalist/russian bot playbook
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u/Pale-Ad-1682 1d ago
For people reading this comment : This comment pretends that Melenchon's view are insane while leftwashing Glucksmann, a warmongerer who wants to worsen international relations rather than being temperate about ticking nuclear superpowers. If the guy you're replying to is a Russian bot (he is at least a meat proxy, granted), you're a CIA bot.
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u/pretenzioeser_Elch 2d ago
He demands a ceasefire but rejects NATO and all weapon shipments? So he's a strongly worded letter to counter an invasion kind of guy.
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u/aznzoo123 2d ago
what does cancelling debt owned by the central bank mean?
that feels like accounting shenanigans. somebody is losing money that they were owed, but its not clear who
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u/mazamundi 2d ago
So in europe we did QE or quantitative easing. Which basically meant central banks bought bonds from governments and companies.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
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u/mazamundi 2d ago
A couple of things you are not getting right. Disclaimer: I don't have a dog in this fight, not French.
The ECB does not constantly buy bonds from EU countries. It used to, but not anymore. It even stopped reinvesting the money from matured bonds.
Melechon's proposal (for what I've read) would be a freeze only on the central bank, which would not affect pension funds nor the rest of the market. The ECB redirects profits (if any) to state budgets and has no profit motive. This can be a inter eu state issue,-due to ECB budgets- but not one that leads to market panic.
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u/renecotyfanboy 2d ago
The Central bank creates its own money (as every bank does when making a loan) and destroys it on recovery. Cancelling this debt would mean that the created money would stay in circulation instead of being destroyed. This is Money creation by the central bank
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u/SomewhereHot4527 3d ago
Rejection of Long-Range Arms & Escalation: LFI lawmakers consistently vote against or oppose military aid packages, long-range weapons deliveries, and legislative resolutions supporting expanded security agreements or the seizure of frozen Russian assets, arguing they risk widening the war.
=> That doesn't sound like supporting Ukraine to me. They want to support Ukraine like Trump is supporting it. Give empty words and let Russia walk over Ukraine's face.
This is the single most important conflict for our external security and Europe's future and what LFI wants to do is to serve the country defending itself on a platter to Russia. Well at least that's one thing he has in common with LePen.
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u/livinginahologram France 3d ago edited 3d ago
"Far-left"
France has actual revolutionary communist organisations, including Lutte Ouvrière and NPA-Révolutionnaires. They explicitly advocate replacing capitalism through revolutionary transformation.
Melenchon also wants to reform EU's founding treaties or quit the EU if he fails (a Frexit). It's the plan A / plan B in his 2027 campaign and it's part of a radical agenda.
Let's not forget that his past position was that Frexit was necessary source. He was very vocal about a Frexit while the Brexit referendum was happening source.
Négociations ou sortie : que veut vraiment Jean-Luc Mélenchon sur l’Europe ?
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u/nmuncer France 3d ago
I agree that criticism should be based on facts. But there's a rather obvious problem with your approach: you treat LFI's official programme as definitive proof of its positions while largely ignoring what its leaders actually say and how its MPs vote.
1. Far-left: On 27 February 2026, France's Conseil d'État rejected LFI's challenge to its classification in the "far-left" electoral bloc. The court found no manifest error in that classification. You can disagree with the label, but it wasn't invented by political opponents.
2. Ukraine: Yes, Mélenchon condemned Russia's invasion. But in March 2024, LFI MPs voted against the government's declaration supporting the Franco-Ukrainian security agreement, while Socialists and Greens voted in favour. Parliamentary votes matter just as much as campaign promises.
3. NATO: Opposing NATO doesn't automatically make someone pro-Russian. Agreed. But advocating withdrawal from the alliance while Russia wages war in Europe raises legitimate questions about European security and collective defence. Calling it "non-alignment" doesn't answer those questions.
4. Public debt: You're right that Mélenchon proposes cancelling only part of France's debt. But cancelling hundreds of billions held by central banks isn't a harmless accounting exercise. It raises major legal, monetary and financial issues, particularly under EU law.
5. Retirement: You're correct about the retirement age. The 2023 reform was only partially suspended. But that doesn't answer the fundamental question: how would retirement at 60 be sustainably financed?
6. Violence: Supporting protests doesn't automatically mean endorsing violence. But let's not pretend LFI officials haven't legitimised it. Bally Bagayoko, LFI mayor of Saint-Denis, explicitly argued that violence "can be legitimate" during the student protests. On 6 October 2026, he stood by those remarks, although he said he wanted to avoid violence. It's reasonable to question that rhetoric without claiming LFI organised violent incidents.
7. Hamas and antisemitism: Supporting Palestinian statehood doesn't make someone antisemitic. Obviously. But LFI's controversies following October 7 weren't invented by its opponents. Its initial reluctance to explicitly describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation provoked criticism even from other left-wing parties. A programme condemning antisemitism doesn't erase the controversies surrounding actual statements.
8. Immigration, police and the EU: I agree that "open borders, no police and destroying the EU" is a caricature. But LFI's actual proposals on immigration enforcement, policing and refusing certain EU rules still raise legitimate legal and practical questions.
My point is simple: correcting exaggerations is useful, but selectively quoting a party's programme while overlooking its leaders' statements, parliamentary votes and the consequences of its proposals isn't objective fact-checking either.
You complain about people repeating claims without checking them. Fair enough. But checking what politicians promise is only half the job. Checking what they actually say and do matters just as much.
some of the sources
https://www.conseil-etat.fr/fr/arianeweb/CE/decision/2026-02-27/512694
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u/GiveMeTheKeyz 3d ago
Pour le qualificatif d'extrême gauche c'est tout à fait inventé par les opposants politiques et c'est le ministre de l'Intérieur qui définit les nuances en amont des élections. Donc il y a évidemment une question politique et de diabolisation du cote des forces gouvernementale à agir de telle maniere.
Il me semble qu'en 2022 pour la NUPES le Conseil d'Etat avait jugé qu'il y avait une erreur d'interprétation car Darmanin avait fait de même, les partis avaient contesté et le Conseil avait indiqué qu'il y avait erreur.
L'important étant la question des alliances: en 2026 il a jugé qu'extrême gauche n'était pas infondé car LFI partait sans les autres formations de gauche classique/de gouvernement mais avec des partis clairement à l'extrême gauche (NPA) Donc c'est circonstanciel et d'ailleurs le NPA est d'extrême gauche mais estime qu'il faut jouer le jeu de faire bloc derrière LFI en ce moment car depuis 1981 une gauche de rupture n'a jamais eu autant de chances de gagner qu'aujourd'hui.
Donc le Conseil d'Etat ne donne pas l'essence même du mouvement/parti mais plutôt une appréciation pour chaque élection si on avis lui est demandé. LFI est pas plus à gauche qu'à en 2022 où le Conseil d'Etat avait validé le qualificatif de gauche pour l'ensemble de la NUPES qui s'était rangé...derrière le programme de LFI sur l'essentiel.
Et puis après on peut analyser le champ politique et ne pas prendre la parole de la justice administrative pour parole d'évangile. Et clairement LFI n'est pas plaçable à l'extreme-gauche. Je dirais à gauche des sociaux démocrates mais pas plus
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u/MrAlexius 3d ago
My kung-fu us better:
You're proving my point rather than contradicting it. Twisting facts with chatgpt to push your narative? Cool.
Far-left: Did you actually read the Conseil d'État decision? It's an administrative classification for electoral purposes, not an ideological assessment. The actual French Communist Party is classified as ordinary "left". Apparently, communists aren't far-left anymore, but Mélenchon is. Makes perfect sense.
Ukraine: Conveniently forgetting WHY LFI voted against that agreement? Their objections concerned Macron's escalation rhetoric, possible troop deployments, NATO membership and EU accession. Arnaud Le Gall explicitly stated in Parliament that LFI supported supplying weapons to Ukraine under certain conditions. Since when does opposing a particular agreement mean opposing Ukraine's right to defend itself?
NATO: And? France already withdrew from NATO's integrated military command under de Gaulle in 1966 and only returned in 2009. Was de Gaulle a Russian sympathiser too? You can question whether non-alignment is realistic today, but pretending it's inherently pro-Russian is ridiculous.
Public debt: Nobody said cancelling central-bank-held debt was legally straightforward. The original claim was that Mélenchon wanted to cancel France's debt. He proposed targeting the portion held by the central banking system. Those aren't remotely the same thing. You've simply changed the subject from what was actually proposed to whether it's feasible.
Retirement: Again, have you actually read the programme? Higher pension contributions, taxing previously exempt income, increased employment and wages. Those are the proposed financing mechanisms. Whether they're sufficient is debatable, but asking "how will you pay for it?" as though nobody had bothered to answer is just lazy.
Violence: Interesting choice of quotation. Bagayoko also explicitly said "Je désapprouve totalement la violence" in that very same interview. He was discussing the historical legitimacy of violence in social struggles. You can criticise his wording, but leaving out the part where he explicitly condemns violence is precisely the kind of selective reporting I'm talking about.
Hamas: Yes, LFI's initial response to October 7 was controversial. Nobody denied that. But LFI subsequently explicitly condemned Hamas's crimes and massacres, rejected its ideology and called for the release of hostages. So what exactly are we arguing here? That their initial communication was inadequate, or that they support Hamas? Because those are two very different accusations.
Immigration, police and the EU: You literally admit that the original claims were caricatures. Then you tell me their actual proposals raise legitimate questions. Well, congratulations, you've discovered that political programmes can be criticised. That was never in dispute.
The problem is that you keep confusing three things: what LFI actually proposes, whether those proposals would work, and whether you personally agree with them.
A vote against Macron's agreement isn't a vote for Putin. Questioning NATO isn't supporting Russia. Proposing debt cancellation for specific creditors isn't proposing to cancel the entire national debt. And criticising Israel whos is committing genocide!!! isn't automatically supporting Hamas.
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u/JumpingYourBone 3d ago
why are they saying they "support violence", like yeah, bc the cops are very violent with kids. was any changes done without major disruption or violence? and i don't even like the guy.
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u/nmuncer France 3d ago
The problem with your argument is that the devil is in the details. Almost every point conveniently leaves something important out.
Take Ukraine. In January 2022, just weeks before the invasion, Mélenchon claimed that Crimea was Russian and declared that the US, not Russia, was the aggressor. He later condemned the invasion, of course, but those earlier statements don't simply disappear because his programme says the right things.
Or Hamas. In February 2025, LFI MEP Rima Hassan explicitly stated that "Hamas has a legitimate action under international law", arguing that armed resistance to colonisation was justified. She also condemned hostage-taking and attacks on civilians. But surely her choice of words raises legitimate questions, especially coming from an elected LFI representative.
And it's the same pattern throughout your post.
From a distance, your arguments sound convincing. But dig into the actual statements, parliamentary votes and controversies, and you begin to understand where LFI's reputation comes from.
Quoting the most reassuring parts of a political programme while overlooking everything inconvenient isn't objective fact-checking. It's selective fact-checking.
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u/Just-Let4157 3d ago
About NATO, we need it more than ever. What Mélenchon wants is a gift to Russia
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u/VirtualMemory9196 3d ago
Mélanchon has very questionable takes about Russia and Ukraine
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u/InnocuousSpaniard Castile and León (Spain) 3d ago
Im going to give you an upvote for the effort and patience it took to make this. But, as a complete outsider, I can completely see how each one of those conclusions is merited by what you wrote about LFI, alone. Every point here is crying "he didn't explicitly say exactly what he is accused of," while ignoring that the statements obviously flirt with, attempt to give a more publically-palpatable version of exactly what the covert measure is.
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u/UnFelDeZeu 3d ago
>3. "Against NATO" apparently means "pro-Russia."
It absolutely does, Russia benefits immensely from France leaving NATO. France is the only EU country that could shoot nukes back if Russia uses them.
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u/Skilgannon21 3d ago
It doesn't. Right now France offers a nuclear protection to its European allies, outside of the NATO construct. Alliances can still be maintained outside of NATO, which is clearly made to be under American supervision. I'm not saying it's the best course. But it's not leaving our allies defenseless. We aren't Trump's US
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u/LeoVonMoote 2d ago
Thank you very much for this work you did.
LFI is an authentic left wing movement that isn’t extreme at all. It aims to create a better world for the French. It denounces violence, injustice and exploitation.
The fact that it is revolutionary, in the sense that it wants to write a new constitution and create a new republic, is the problem for the present elites that rule Europe. LFI is directly challenging the establishment.
We can expect enormous backlash from most media outlets (we know why that is), and think tanks, in the coming months.
Regular people must take a step back and reflect on why that is. Why is LFI treated as if it was a haven for far left totalitarianism, even though it is objectively not. You can go to its assemblies, you can see how it works as a party. It is exemplary in its democracy.
So yeah, people, stop thinking the establishment is there for you. It isn’t. Investigate the programs, the people, simply by heading straight to the source itself. Because in this case, the media is deeply biased and is misleading you.
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u/scoutmet 2d ago
What about the claims melenchon wants to turn of nuclear energy are those over-dramatic claims to?
Also side note while I understand being non aligned via military the biggest problem is the fact this the worse moment combine the fact other nationalist parties are gaining momentum which have their own destain of Nato and EU France wanting to be non align adds more problems and the overall pressure to it
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u/Deho_Edeba France 2d ago
Yes, this is over-dramatic too.
Long term, they indeed advocate for a renewable mix without nuclear, but it is completely out of the question to "turn off" the nuclear we already have. They plan to use it for as long as it's available, but no new plants will be planned, and renewable energies should see a massive development to eventually (we're talking 20 years minimum) do without nuclear.
Their goal to have a nuclear-free mix LONG TERM can be debated of course, but not using caricatures like "they want to turn off the plants how will we do during the winter ??!" .
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u/kodos_der_henker Austria 3d ago
the same guy that said NATO started the war in Ukraine?
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u/Kangouwou Brittany (France) 3d ago edited 2d ago
Ah you got unlucky, I'm here to factcheck you !
Dans la crise en Ukraine, l'agresseur est-il la Russie ou l'Otan ? "L'Otan, sans aucun doute", a répondu Jean-Luc Mélenchon, jeudi 10 février, sur France 2, dans l'émission "Elysée 2022".
You're correct, this is the same guy. Regreatably for us leftists.
Edit about 24 hours later : the situation is more nuanced, he basically said that days before the invasion per se, he was referring at the moment to the escalation that preceded it. After the invasion, he denounced Russia as the attacker. My detailed answer to a comment can be found below :
I'd still argue that he answered that OTAN was responsible, undoubtedly, for the Ukraine crisis. It does not mean the Ukraine invasion, but it means the whole tensions that ultimately led to Ukraine's invasion. This still is problematic in my opinion.
A complete chronology of Mélenchon's stance on that war can be found here https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/de-la-menace-n-existe-pas-a-la-russie-agresse-l-ukraine-sur-la-russie-melenchon-varie-3565552 and you're correct, he immediately denounced Russia as an agressor :
Jean-Luc Mélenchon a donc rapidement réagi jeudi matin à l'attaque lancée par la Russie en Ukraine. Le ton est une nouvelle fois à la condamnation. "La Russie agresse l'Ukraine. Une initiative de pure violence manifestant une volonté de puissance sans mesure. Une escalade insupportable est provoquée", a-t-il écrit, exhortant à "ne surtout pas accepter d'entrer dans l'escalade. Elle serait sans retour".
Nonetheless, should we consider that the war started when Ukraine began being invaded ? I think not, it started years, perhaps decades ago. All the while Mélenchon minimized the responsibility of Russia. This is inacceptable, and this is someone who voted for him twice that says that.
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u/Abel_V 3d ago
Why is he unlucky if your fact-check confirms what he says
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u/Kangouwou Brittany (France) 3d ago
Come on, I wanted to elicit fear, just for him to be reassured a few seconds later...
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u/pierperrier Overijssel (Netherlands) 3d ago
Haha I was confused at first and thought you were a bot. AI makes this sudden flip in their reasoning sometimes.
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u/Mean_Initiative_5962 Italy 3d ago
Oh, ffs, is there ONE country among the big 4 that make up 60% of EU GDP that isn't seeing a battle between far right putin employees and random useful idiots that also support Putin regime?
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u/Kangouwou Brittany (France) 3d ago edited 3d ago
My personal opinion is that the far right is taking Putin's money, or at least is controlled more or less by him, while the far left is Russophile mainly by its anti-USA stance, closer to the random useful idiots you mentioned.
At least, in France.
EDIT : the far left is Russophile.
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u/Seradima Lower Saxony (Germany) 3d ago
I know some super far left people who think that because Ukraine's army is full of Nazis, it means Russia winning the war would be an objectively good thing for Europe.
My guys. Russia is also full of nazis. Ukraine absolutely has corruption problems but Russia's corruption is several orders of magnitudes worse.
Their love of Russia is like one of the few things we disagree about.
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u/TheAlex-Guy 2d ago
It all started when the Russians brutalized Ukraine.
The similar thing happened during the Yugoslav Wars, countries recruited nationalists to swell their ranks. Russia has been doing the same.
Russian propaganda uses it to brand all of Ukraine's society as sympathetic to far-Right nationalists, football ultra's and social-ills, when the Russians are no different, they have problems with nationalists themselves, the difference is it taking the form of Pan-Slav Fascist imperialism, with Naz-Bol and Communist nostalgic characteristics known as National Communism, or "Endokomuna" in Polish.
We have a few here, most notably the "KKP", "Zmiana", "Kamraci" or "Falanga" political movements.
Whichever country Russia invaded, they'd make fun of for having their own nationalists, especially if military units won't professionalize, compared to later stages during the Yugoslav Wars as their militaries reduced in size.
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u/Mean_Initiative_5962 Italy 3d ago
Yeah, no matter the result, all of the pillars of the EU will betray it. We're fucked.
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u/The-Nihilist-Marmot Portugal 3d ago edited 3d ago
French, Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese communist parties, which are all a big family and very different from those of the rest of Europe (because they were HUGELY influential and survived the Cold War, sometimes even seen as part of the political establishment [eg PCP in Portugal], although some were more recently incorporated into “movements” like LFI) were all more or less secretly funded by the USSR.
And a lot of the people in those circles inherited the connections to Russia , just like neofascist Russia ironically inherited much of the foreign affairs and security apparatus of the USSR (Putin and Lavrov being perfect examples of that).
Now consider how much of that helps explain how these nominally left wing parties defend an ethnonationalist fascist state engaged in a war of annexation.
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u/downforce_dude 3d ago
IMO the far right often likes Russia because there’s money to be made by being a Putin stooge. Far left does it for the love of the game
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u/redwoodforest15 3d ago
That’s even worse. It’s one thing to be like “I’ll support you, dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, because you’re giving me lots of money so I owe you,” and completely another to believe that Russia is… a model to follow? Correct in its imperialist ambitions?
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u/KelticQT 2d ago
Could you also fact check the dates ?
Because it seems like your quote predates the invasion of Ukraine by about two (2) weeks. Which took place on february 24 2022, while this quote is dated february 10th.
So while I don’t think Melenchon was clever to blame NATO for the escalation of tensions, the invasion had not taken place yet, so Russia had "only" moved military equipment along the border at that point. As of 2022, this quote does not cover the actual agression of Russia on Ukraine.
It is thus dishonest to present this quote as a statement in support of Russia, that would deflect the respinsibility onto Ukraine and NATO. For instance, he immediately admitted to being wrong right after the invasion started.
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u/7adzius Lithuania 3d ago
Didn’t he want to reduce taxes and increase welfare or something too? Seems like a bit of a populist
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u/Quentin-Code 3d ago
/r/france loves him
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u/Hellhooker La France, mais pas n'importe laquelle 3d ago
r/france is also one of the most censored sub on reddit.
you literrally need to suck the dick of the echo chamber to have enough fake internet point to comment a political post.
It would be funny if it was not so corrupted and blatant.
Just looking the post there, it's pure propaganda disconnected to the reality.
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u/merci_nurse France 3d ago
Yes and it has changed so much in that regard in the last few years it’s crazy, absolute echo chamber right now. Being aligned with moderate left gets you downvoted to oblivion.
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u/lbreakjai North Holland (Netherlands) 3d ago
Saying you don't think the country needs more migration with 10% unemployed people is worth a 3 days ban on that sub, if you were wondering.
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u/swiwwcheese 2d ago
Most French language subs are managed by the same team of moderators who control r/france
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u/MrAlexius 3d ago
Suddenly everyone is professional french politics analytic. Thank you for the attention to the matter. Please let the french people have a democratic independent election.
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u/qef15 Limburg (Netherlands) 3d ago
The thing in France as far as I see it from the outside, is that French centrist neo-liberalism is actually pretty left by most other European country's standards. You compare it to our country and it'd be definitely considered left. So there's a miscommuncation between this sub and the French people I think.
As for the budget and such: the taxes are high in France yes, but their spending is also stupid high. It's a case of both things being true at the same time. All I need to see is that you can retire at the age of 64 and that only now spa treatments aren't deductible from your taxes and that says enough for me. In our country, even the left would shudder at these policies.
As for the choices of president: it's either him or Le Pen as far as I see it. The centrist dude that is also in the running is Macron 2.0 and will not survive the first round in the elections. So strategic voting will happen towards Mélenchon to prevent Le Pen becoming president.
And for those thinking: why would the French not vote for another well-reasoned centrist? Because they have been running the country for the past few decades and got France into this mess in the first place.
Fresh centrists that actually give a shit are hard to come by. Which is a universal problem it seems in the world.
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u/swiwwcheese 2d ago
The thing in France as far as I see it from the outside, is that French centrist neo-liberalism is actually pretty left by most other European country's standards.
We French use the terms 'libéral' and 'néolibéral' to reference anything even remotely related to capitalism and bourgeois policies.
We are not aware that 'liberal' in English has a different meaning, that without context it primarily invokes leftist ideals.
You will definitely often read left-wing French ppl cursing at 'liberals' in English, and I understand that is confusing lol.
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u/qef15 Limburg (Netherlands) 2d ago
That pretty much. A lot of the comments below me are a very simple case of miscommunication. That goed for almost any country, thoughcfhe comments don't seem to realize that. What is liberal is equal to centre to moderate right-wing in Europe and left-wing in the USA for example. Then centrist in other countries.
And as a Dutch person, liberal similarly means as much things related to capitalism, just that our threshold is much higher than the French due to being a much more right-wing leaning country (though infinitely more left than the USA right now).
So I understand indeed where you French lot are coming from.
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u/Myosos 2d ago
The age of retirement at 64 is if you started working at 16 or 18, if you studied after 18 then it's later. For me it'll be 67 for example. It's the same joke with the 35hours, almost nobody actually works 35hrs a week
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u/HatCrafty 3d ago
If you really think most people will vote far left to avoid far right, you do not know France enough. All moderates I know are more afraid of far left than far right and that's not even close.
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u/Dangerous_Surprise 2d ago
I think the Meloni effect also plays a big role here. She surprised everyone by not sucking up to Putin, despite being far right, so it makes people less fearful of Le Pen.
Personally, I think both are lunatics and we are sadly going to be leaving the country if either one gets in.
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u/Relevant_Science9679 3d ago
Also Macron was supposed to be a centrist, continue to advertise himself as a centrist but enable a lot of far rights, and place people very much to the right in important place of power. So people are a bit tired of this kind of people.
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u/LeoVonMoote 2d ago
Hm. Not really though. France is a paradox. It has a monarchist tradition and elevates its presidents as kings. It is a very hierarchical society, but also a very revolutionary one. It has both urges. That’s why they protest and riot that often. The left and right confrontation is always alive and vigorous.
The Macron government is neoliberal, supported by a tiny elite of billionaires that own half of the country, and has clear authoritarian tendencies. The level of vitriol against anyone that disagrees with neoliberal diktats is intense. The media have developed their own Fox News types and the regime uses these to push “law, order and austerity” energetically.
So yeah, while the French do have generous benefits and a big social safety net, the intention of the Macron government is to tear it all down, bit by bit.
But the French are feisty, and every time they try to push something of the sort, people go on strike. All hell breaks loose.
So now they are resorting to using the far right as a distraction, to make sure the angry mobs go after the migrants and people of colour instead of them. They push the logic of austerity as a form of patriotism in the media.
So yeah, not looking good. And not looking left (apart from LFI)…
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u/goku7770 2d ago
As for the choices of president: it's either him or Le Pen as far as I see it. The centrist dude that is also in the running is Macron 2.0 and will not survive the first round in the elections. So strategic voting will happen towards Mélenchon to prevent Le Pen becoming president.
Hopefully.
I will leave the country if far right gets in charge.
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u/Acceptable-Worth-462 2d ago
You seem to understand french politics way better than some of our citizens do
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u/NoveSedNonNova 2d ago
That's what I always say. If you look at the charts, their public spending even went up in the 90s, 2000s, and 2020s under liberal or conservative governments.
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u/Senuttna 3d ago
Melenchon, the pro-Russian guy? The fact that this guy is supported by supposed "progressives" is insane...
"The United States of America has decided to annex Ukraine to NATO, and Russia feels humiliated, threatened, aggressed." - https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/melenchon:-washington-has-decided-to-annex-ukraine-to-nato
"Volodymyr Zelensky is the president of nothing," - https://lessurligneurs.eu/volodymyr-zelensky-est-il-le-president-de-rien-comme-laffirme-jean-luc-melenchon/
"For my part, I think Crimea is Russian.” - https://www.decideurs-magazine.com/politique-societe/43362-guerre-en-ukraine-l-invitee-inattendue-de-la-campagne-presidentielle.html
The most recent anti-Ukraine rant:
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u/Mean_Initiative_5962 Italy 3d ago
Melenchon, the pro-Russian guy? The fact that this guy is supported by supposed "progressives" is insane...
Like in Italy, where people who supposedly care about the environment blindly follow a party that opposes any kind of GMO and screams that nuclear power pollute and emits and it's worse than gas.
(yes, yes, what did you expect, they're very ambiguous about Russia too, why did you even hoped something else?)
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u/Hellhooker La France, mais pas n'importe laquelle 3d ago
"Like in Italy, where people who supposedly care about the environment blindly follow a party that opposes any kind of GMO and screams that nuclear power pollute and emits and it's worse than gas. "
Because people are fucking morons.
Giving everyone the right to vote is western biggest mistake
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u/Mean_Initiative_5962 Italy 3d ago
Not sure about the last one, but I'm convinced that people shouldn't be the ones deciding about at the very least anything technical
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u/Hellhooker La France, mais pas n'importe laquelle 3d ago
I mean, it's common sense.
You give people a right to vote on programs they do not read, would not even understand if they do and they basically ignore the basic functions of what a governement does.
Having to pass an exam to vote should be common sense, just like we pass an exam to drive.
People too fucking dumb to pass the exam should not have their opinion weighting on anything.
Ask in the streets what the Senate actually does in France and I'll bet the house that at least 2/3rd of them would not know
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u/Waryle 3d ago edited 3d ago
In France, we basically have three choices for the next elections:
- Nazis and basically traitors to our country
- Neo-liberals, who have been in power the last 30 years, who are dismantling education, health care, infrastructures, justice system, and social gains amongst a lot of other things, plunging a growing number of people into precarious circumstances while the number of millionaires and the wealth of billionaires skyrocket, and who are trying to outdo the Nazis on the far right through police repression and the systematic dismantling of the rule of law and republican institutions and traditions
- And LFI with Mélenchon, who harbors an unhealthy admiration for all powers that oppose the United States and a pathological opposition to nuclear power, but who proposes a truly democratic, social, progressive, and environmentally friendly platform
So yeah, I'm a progressive, I have never voted for LFI before, but I'm going to dunk that LFI ballot right into the ballot box in 2027, because I'd rather go protest for nuclear and Ukraine against a left-wing government than putting another Macron or a nazi in power: it's much less dangerous, and at least there's no reason to go in the streets every week.
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u/BlueTemplar85 3d ago
Yeah, let's not forget that we know for sure that the fascists were paid by Putin's Russia.
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u/sofixa11 3d ago
Mélenchon's talk about democracy is very dubious. He rules his party with an iron fist, defending wife beaters and russian rally goers. On the night of the last parliamentary elections he proclaimed the left block as winners and that they'll rule and enact all their peofram and nothing else. With 30% of the seats. He would be incapable of having any governing coalition because he's incapable of compromise.
And I'm sorry, but Hollande wasn't neoliberal. He had a drastic change in policy, but it ain't it.
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u/Waryle 3d ago
He rules his party with an iron fist
We literally voted Macron twice, who gave his initials to its own party, and we playing against the Le Pen dynasty. At least LFI organises public consultations to amend its manifesto. You could visit their website and suggest measures – for example, this year in May and June – and this led to new measures such as stepping up the fight against foreign interference, the phased closure of administrative detention centres, and initiatives to remember the history of colonisation and ‘Françafrique’.
defending wife beaters and russian rally goers
Yes, that’s one of the things for which I would have ruled him out if I hadn’t had to choose between that, the Nazis, or the current government’s continued policy of blocking investigations into Epstein and selecting rapists, allies of paedophiles, and champions of corruption and insider dealing to form its governments.
On the night of the last parliamentary elections he proclaimed the left block as winners and that they'll rule and enact all their peofram and nothing else. With 30% of the seats.
Yes, because according to the republican tradition that Macron wipe his ass with, the President must choose his Prime Minister from the coalition that came top in the general election. And the Prime Minister then shapes his own course of action. That is how we ended up with left-wing governments under a right-wing President, and vice versa, on several occasions during the 5th.
The coalition that came out on top is the left-wing one, the NFP. Instead, Macron has chosen a right-wing prime minister from a party that is very much in the minority, to continue a right-leaning program.
He would be incapable of having any governing coalition because he's incapable of compromise.
LFI literally gave dozens of seat to the other left parties within the NFP, including to the PS who are far more centrist-leaning nowadays, to avoid having more RN members of parliament elected and to have everybody on board with the NFP.
And I'm sorry, but Hollande wasn't neoliberal. He had a drastic change in policy, but it ain't it.
He wasn´t Reagan, but he is definitely neo-liberal. CICE, le Pacte de responsabilité et de solidarité, the El Khomri law, the Macron law, the ANI... He implemented austerity measures, made workers’ jobs more precarious, and pursued a supply-side policy (= massive subsidies to businesses with no strings attached)
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u/AdminEating_Dragon Greece 3d ago
France's government spending/GDP is one of the highest in the world.
Lowest pension age in Europe.
Most protectionist mindset in Europe regarding almost every industry.
And yet French people somehow think this is "neoliberal".
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u/Primary_Date2218 3d ago
This debate will never be solved. French look at last 20 years. Other Europeans look at entire picture. Yes France has historically had very high taxes and very high public spending and still has - however after decades of sarkozy , macron , chirac the right had more than enough time to turn it around. They did little despite their promises - in fact the debt and deficit has increased. Salaries of public workers have been increased only three times in last 15 years. france had 4 pension reforms since 90s despite what other europeans think. Child tax credit was cut ( quotient familial ) . child benefits were cut. housing benefits were cut. Unemployment benefits were cut. Its hard to sell the people that somehow they are the ones being stupid and not the politicians in power whose policies have absolutely failed.
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u/AdminEating_Dragon Greece 3d ago
This means that France had a system so out of touch with the rest of Europe that even with 4 pension reforrms and cuts, it's still not workable.
How many times do you think salaries of public workers have increased in the Netherlands? And what do you think is the pension age there?
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u/disaster_incomin 3d ago
How many times do you think salaries of public workers have increased in the Netherlands? And what do you think is the pension age there?
Why don't you just say what they are instead instead of this pseudo interrogative stuff
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u/Primary_Date2218 3d ago
im not talking about economy. im talking about public opinion. The public has seen that there have been cumulatively 20 cuts and they saw no progress so they decided to vote for far-something. im not talking about social system and whether we need more reforms. just purely talking about how public opinion works.
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u/LeoVonMoote 2d ago
It’s neoliberal in the sense that the present government of Macron is in bed with the oligarchies of France and is doing its utmost to destroy all you’ve cited above.
So yeah, wasn’t really neoliberal before Macron, but has been with a vengeance since then. The only problem Macron has is the French people themselves. Take away something from them and everything goes to hell immediately. So Macron has had a rough time trying to dismantle the social state. But he’s getting there.
And like all neoliberals out there, he’s going to get ousted by the far right or the far left for doing so. Truly idiotic.
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u/SteinmanDC 3d ago
I moved a few months ago to France. Blow me over with a feather if it isn't neoliberal austerity here.
Private ambulances, highways entirely privatised, not to mention the schools that have had their budgets cut constantly.
There is no money yet somehow they manage to keep increasing the military budget...
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u/Senuttna 3d ago
>But who proposes a truly democratic, social, progressive, and environmentally friendly platform
Melenchon proposes a "truly democratic platform"?? The guy that is constantly supporting and giving compliments to China's autocratic regime as well as supporting Russia?
That is the guy you believe is "democratic"?? Melenchon is as autocratic as Le Pen, he is a far left tanky.
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u/Waryle 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yup, that's what I said. Among other measures, LFI's program have:
- A new constitution via a Constituent Assembly: drafted by citizens; no sitting parliamentarian may sit in it or run in the following election (even Mélenchon himself, so we'll quickly see if he is a true dictator). The final text is submitted to a referendum.
- -> Macron has exploited every flaw in the Fifth Republic and shown that its democratic nature depends largely on the president’s goodwill. We need a 6th Republic ASAP.
- A RIC (citizen-initiated referendum): with enough signatures, citizens can propose, repeal, or amend a law.
- -> This is big right now, given the official petitions on the National Assembly’s website that have surpassed one million verified signatures, that Macron and his coalition have completely ignored and wiped their asses with (against the Duplomb Law, against the presumption of self-defense for police officers, against the Yadan Law...)
- A recall referendum: citizens can revoke an elected official mid-term.
- -> Considering Macron appointed a pedophile-enabler as a first minister at some time, along a lot of other problematic people, this is also a good thing.
- The abolition of Article 49-3: no more passing a law without a vote; the government must answer before Parliament.
- -> Macron completely bypassed the parliamentary process, plunging the country into a political crisis unprecedented in the 5th Republic.
- A proportional representation in the National Assembly: parties winning around 15% of the vote gain seats.
- A recognition of the blank vote and a turnout threshold: for better representativeness of elections.
- A mandatory referendum for any constitutional revision or new European treaty.
- -> Sarkozy pushed through the Lisbon Treaty in 2007 even though the French had voted “no” in the referendum. This has been seen a messed up treason, and that has turned a great many French people off the democratic process
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u/TheCloudForest 3d ago edited 3d ago
A new constitution via a Constituent Assembly: drafted by citizens; no sitting parliamentarian may sit in it or run in the following election. The final text is submitted to a referendum.
We attempted this in Chile 2019-2023, it was a massive waste of time and resources, resulted in something like 9 elections in two years, a complete circus of political and economic iliterates, two constitutional proposals soundly rejected by the voters, a demoralized population, and eventually a fascist-adjacent president.
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u/Waryle 3d ago
Our Fifth Republic was tailor-made for De Gaulle: it affords him considerable latitude, and relies on the incumbent president being of good will and not abusing that power. People here are already at their wits’ end; they are turning increasingly towards the far right. Protests are becoming more frequent and are being met with increasingly violent repression.
Expressions of democratic dissent are completely ignored; the voting system forces people to vote for the lesser of two evils, rather than according to their convictions, and boils down to getting off your arse twice in five years and then keeping your mouth shut.
This republic needs to be reformed, and just because things went badly in Chile doesn’t mean they’ll turn out the same way in a country that’s completely different.
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u/jaaval Finland 2d ago
I don't see anything in the current French political system that would prevent democratic change. The problem is the voters don't agree on what change should happen. Despite the weakness of the electoral system the "lesser of two evils" happens because a large share of the voters want those evils. A better proportional system would not remove that.
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u/Gnl_Winter 3d ago edited 3d ago
Good luck explaining that in this delusional sub. They have zero idea what happened in France in the last 15 years. They just see public spending and it's enough for them to ignore 15 years of policy failures from the neo-liberal elite.
Because yes, privatizing public ownership and public services, decreasing fiscal pressure on corporations, and decreasing the social safety net, are neo-liberal policies. Its a fact. Many approve those policies. If you ask a neo-liberal he'll tell you it's the right policies to implement.
Now you might discuss why they didn't have the expected effect of stimulating growth and reducing debt and deficit. But you can't tell the French these policies didn't happen. They did.
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u/Senuttna 3d ago edited 3d ago
> 15 years of policy failures from the neo-liberal elite.
France literally uses 58% of his GDP in Public Spending... The highest in Europe and one of the highest in the entire world.
That is everything but "neo-liberal" policies. Do you even understand what liberalism is?
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u/Gnl_Winter 3d ago
Did you miss the phrase "they just see public spending" and decided to illustrate exactly my point about your embarrassing lack of knowledge about the whole thing ? It's supremely ironic.
Also it's called GDP dans la langue de l'anglois.
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u/Senuttna 3d ago edited 3d ago
Because you are still contradicting yourself by ignoring the elephant in the room. Liberalism advocates for a limited government, free markets, and reduced public spending.
France with its 58% of GDP in public spending is the antithesis of liberalism just with that fact alone. If anything, having almost 60% of the GDP in public spending is the wet dream of any socialism supporter.
You don't get to blame "neo-liberalism" when France and its economic policies are the complete opposite of liberalism.
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u/Kangouwou Brittany (France) 3d ago
I'll speak for myself. I perfectly know that Mélenchon's stance on the Ukrainian invasion is problematic. Similarly for the China/Taiwan situation. I also have a lot of disagreement on other topics, for example the democratic process inside his political party, or the nuclear topic.
The fact that this guy is supported by supposed "progressives" is insane...
Here is the thing. If you consider both the "progressiveness" and the probability of winning, he is the better placed candidate. We've heard nothing from other progressive candidates the past two weeks regarding the protests, only his party, LFI, is audible.
I don't adhere to LFI, I don't view Mélenchon as my favorite candidate, but among all available he is the most likely to earn my vote if I want my biggest issues to be adressed (reform of our democracy, ecological transition notably).
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u/Aggravating_Value145 3d ago
Real question here: why do you see him as the better placed candidate? All polls and past elections trends show him loosing by far in the second tour. I voted JLM at most elections for the same reasons you state, but really now i don't understand the reasonning now , and why people continue pushing LFI going solo while it's basically ensuring the RN will win.
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u/Zalapadopa Sweden 3d ago
Not sure I'd want a pro-Russian to be in charge of reforming democracy, but maybe pro-Russians are different in France.
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u/madhorza 3d ago
Well the problem is that on the other side it’s not only pro-russian (with the RN party being financed by Russian banks) but pro-Trump too so yeah tough choice…
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u/Senuttna 3d ago
> but among all available he is the most likely to earn my vote if I want my biggest issues to be adressed (reform of our democracy)
You say you trust him to "reform our democracy", and yet he is one of the biggest autocracy supporters in France together with Le-Pen, constantly supporting China's regime, or Russia...
Make it make sense... He is an autocratic tanky.
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u/ShockOld4312 2d ago
The conflict between the left and the right has always been a false narrative funded and promoted by authoritarian extremists and states. The real underlying conflict has always been between extremists and non-extremists. Once you understand that extremists are all alike, things like this will no longer surprise you or seem contradictory.
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u/Noncrediblepigeon 2d ago
Welp, have fun seing him lose to Le Pen 33-66 when the election rolls around.
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u/Madman_Sean 3d ago
The same guy who proposes outright defaulting on debt
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u/Logical_Ice_7192 3d ago
His cultists belive it will work lol. Then when France will bankrupt because of his economic policies, be sure they'll blame capitalism anyway.
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u/AFisberg Finland 2d ago
ottumwacourier.com
451: Unavailable due to legal reasons We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, call (641) 684-4611.
Great fucking post in /r/Europe
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u/Oleleplop 3d ago
you can think what you want of him but don't forget this is happenbing because the government has had only one message to the youth : "study and STFU"
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u/elidoan 🇺🇸 living in 🇫🇷 3d ago
Melenchon is a tankie ghoul.
We should send him to Russia, a place he admires deeply. The left deserves someone of higher moral fiber in France.
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u/Batel_Front 2d ago
This subreddit is a disaster, people are mostly whining about his views on Ukraine potentially the same people who have questionable opinions about what’s happening, you know where.
He’s a left-wing candidate, not far-left, LFI is closer to the PS of the second half of the 20th century than to the other parties you don’t even know about.
We’re telling you that France has a choice between him, another guy who looks like Macron (you know nothing about Macron, he’s a piece of shit), and Le Pen, who is the daughter of a war criminal and represents a party founded by the WAFFEN SS.
DO YOU EVER STOP TO THINK?????
Oh, and if you’re interested, LFI elected officials are practically the only ones welcomed with open arms by high school and college students; the others are mocked, and the RN is insulted.
Reading this sub, France really needs to think about its future with the EU, we clearly don’t get enough benefits to justify helping countries that, for the most part, don’t contribute much.
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u/Hour_Raisin_4547 3d ago edited 3d ago
Why can’t the left in France put forward anyone but him? He’s such a shit candidate. Nobody likes him, he’s always lost every time he’s presented himself.
He hides it but he is just as ego driven and power hungry as the other politicians “La république c’est moi!”
He wants to destroy the EU (disobeying EU trade laws because they aren’t convenient to France is the domino that ends the union and he says he will do it)
He wants France to fight global capitalism single-handedly by itself (a populist pipe dream he sells to the extreme left to rile them up but which is a war we would lose)
He is a demagogue who sells an idealist fiction where all of his ideas are great in theory but they all fundamentally hinge on generating wealth and prosperity in a harmonious happy way while completely disregarding that under current the current global paradigm only being competitive works and being competitive often means being dirty.
He’s the candidate for dreamers with poor understanding of the complexity of the world. Who want simple answers and solutions. They have the right beliefs and want to move in the right direction, but with heavy handed violent changes to policy rather than steady progressive reform.
Edit: Consider how much he rages in uproar about a president using legal and constitutional methods to apply his program, while giving himself a pass when it comes to spitting in the face of a century of European democratic collaboration because his ideas and his mandate is so special that it’s apparently justified. It is disgustingly hypocritical.
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u/Beginning-Employer34 3d ago
he's a populist, he is a copy of the far right wing, his programs is impossible to put, he's also a big fan of everything anti american, so he want to stop helping ukraine, he said china own taiwan and should take it, he said there is no problems with the uyghur, however for palestine yes... Because israel is pro american and china no. He want us to stop having military units and embrace every anti americans countries. Probably would love some student exchange with north korea at some point.
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u/Wawrzy France 3d ago
Lol. He's beloved as much as he's hated in France. There's a reason why he's BY FAR the most popular leftist candidate.
Only people outside of France think everyone hates him. r/france straight up worship him.
Lower class leftist people loves him. Personally I hate his foreign policies (Poutine's leftist lover), but he knows how to galvanize people. Everysingle of his opponents fear him because he's by far the best speaker in France. It's not even close, everyone knows it.
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u/Hour_Raisin_4547 3d ago
Sure he obviously has broad support. When I said everyone hates him I meant more in a serious electable candidate kind of way. I think the center despises him more than they would another LFI candidate that isn’t him.
r/france is an LFI echo chamber unfortunately. I say that as a mostly left wing person myself. But that place is slowly evolving into the r/conservative equivalent of the left.
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u/Moustacheski 3d ago
It's a common pitfall to believe Mélenchon is who drives centrists away when it's absolutely not the case. There is no centrist force in France, all "moderates" are a flavour of left or right (always economic liberals, however). And they constantly shift the goalposts to exclude LFI. When Mélenchon runs at the front, he's the problem. When he takes a step back, either LFI as a whole is the problem or Mélenchon is pulling the strings. When LFI meets other left, more moderate, parties halfway, they are pressured into ostracising LFI again. Liberals hate the radical left and only like the left when they're bland morons with no popular support and no chance to win anything.
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u/Logical_Ice_7192 3d ago
Because he doesn't compromise at all with other left parties. With the NUPES episode, he considered he won, other left parties considered minor sidekicks, and basically just wanted to implement LFI policies with 0 compromises. So yeah ...
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u/chassepatate 2d ago
There is another party from the left, with another leader - Rafael Glucksmann. They hold a much more moderate position, but they aren’t nearly as popular.
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u/LeonSkyworth 2d ago
J'ai jamais rencontré un votant pour LFI qui apprécie Mélenchon perso. Déjà aux dernières élections beaucoup se plaignaient qu'il soit toujours là.
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u/Happy_Barracuda_4811 2d ago
He isn't a Poutine's lover tho. He publicaly support Poutine's political opposant and is the only political man in France doing so.
Medias say he is supporting Poutine just because he isn't supporting Trump escalation policies.
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u/matthieuC Fluctuat nec mergitur 2d ago
> r/france straight up worship him
The sub has been taken over by radical left mods a few years ago (don't know if they are LFI affiliated)
They ban anyone guilty of wrong think who gets too many upvote.
I don't think the community worships him, but any critic will be deleted so that's the illusion it gives.
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u/disaster_incomin 3d ago
I'll try to answer the question as is, don't downvote me just because you don't like the guy. People like him
Because he's well educated, he speaks well ("la République c'est moi" was actually a pretty smart reference and it was in context), he believes in what he says, he's been consistent for a long time, and he offers something different than the continuous neo-liberal policy. That's about all you need to do as a politician these days. Be genuine, charismatic, consistent and offer a potential change to people whos life are going the wrong way.
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u/Ghost_lambda 3d ago
Well if the candidate you speak of existed he wouldn't be considered radical left
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u/Tsigorf 3d ago
You're doing the exact same thing you're criticizing.
I genuinely hate Mélenchon's rhetoric and political strategy, his position regarding international or energy. However, it's false to pretend nobody likes him as he's quite popular, it's also false to say he wants to destroy the EU as he's more a reformist, and it's completely false to pretend his positions are from the far-left. He's definitively more a reformist than a revolutionist.
You're falling under the right and far-right discredit attempts towards Mélenchon the same way you criticize people who appreciate him for falling for his demagogy.
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u/Hour_Raisin_4547 3d ago
Saying everyone hates him was an exaggeration. I meant it in the context of being an electable candidate as history has shown. The center clearly has an animosity towards him and I think a different LFI candidate would have an easier time getting the votes they need to cross the finish line.
It’s not false to say he wants to destroy the EU. He’s stated very explicitly numerous times his “désobéissance plan”. Thats not reform. That’s directly rejecting the authority of the union and you are a fool if you think doing that doesn’t destroy the EU completely.
Thats not reform, that’s revolution. And he has the same approach to international policy and his war on capitalism, where he is prepared to reject the current global paradigm and implement policies which unilaterally reject the status quo
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u/Thecatstoppedateboli 3d ago
Melenchon will bankrupt the nation. Le Pen as well, no doubt
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u/South_Costa13 3d ago
Ah oui parce que c’est vrai que c’est mieux depuis 10 ans avec la macronie…
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u/EvilDavid75 3d ago
C’est incroyable. Les présidents de droite (je compte Macron dedans) ont creusé plus de déficit que toute la gauche, mais c’est quand même eux qui ont raison.
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u/unia_7 2d ago
You just wait - just like Trump, Le Pen will skyrocket the deficit. You'll be longing for the days of "la macronie".
Le Pen belongs the robber class, just like Trump.
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u/ThatBlackSwan 3d ago
See what we did that went completely wrong? We're going to try again, but this time it'll work.
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u/Zatujit 3d ago
because neoliberals famously don't wreck the nation and don't make the country completely vulnerable to crisis that they can use saying its not their fault...
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u/geulertoutelanuit 3d ago
Dude is NO better than LePen
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u/diamanthaende 3d ago
From the German perspective, France is special in the sense that both the far-right and the far-left hate Germany.
Usually, it's only one of the political wings, not both simultaneously...
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u/Primary_Date2218 3d ago
polls show 80 % of french have positive view of Germany. the 20 % are mostly tankie melanchon voters. Ignore them.
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u/Sick_and_destroyed France 3d ago
I hate them both but Le Pen has more respect for France than Mélanchon
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u/ImaginaryWall840 Poland 3d ago
Of course cause he ain't liberal so you'll vote for Hitler instead
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u/ClessGames 3d ago
The woman wearing an electronic bracelet due to millions embezzled? In a party founded by Nazis?
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u/Jonathan_Peachum 3d ago
The « party founded by Nazis » tag doesn’t help. The Democrats in the US promoted slavery and were, until the 1960s, associated with Jim Crow laws. The Republicans produced Lincoln.
Then both parties changed drastically.
Marine Le Pen’s entire strategy has been to « dediabolize » the party and move it away from its beginnings. You can argue that she is only playing lip service to this and is being hypocritical, but arguing that the origins of the party necessarily determine its current stand is not a good argument.
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u/Lindersay 3d ago
Always look at the direction of the bots, and do the opposite.
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u/phario_marelle 2d ago
Go mélenchon 2027, go la FI, on va gagner ! Pour l'écologie, pour la justice sociale, pour la jeunesse, pour le respect du droit international, pour la paix ! Contre le racisme, l'islamophobie, l'antisémitisme, le neolibéralisme, le fascisme !
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u/99xp Romania 2d ago
Why are we posting news from websites that three quarters of the continent can't even access?